Girl kills Grandfather over milk

Cyberwulf wrote:

Only extreme forms of physical abuse count as abuse, everyone! If you're not getting the shit beaten out of you on a regular basis, SUCK IT UP. That includes you, dumbfuck teenagers who hang yourselves after being taunted with mere words. And all you stupid weak bitches who are afraid because some guy keeps following you and you think he's been in your house. Also, SHUT UP ABUSED MEN YOU DON'T EXIST.

This. We've complained numerous times about badfic writers who don't seem to think that someone can experience trauma or abuse unless it involves being brutally beaten or raped.

We have no idea what was going on in the house or how the girl might have felt. And we can't dictate how a person is going to react to bullying or abuse. Regardless of what any of us would have done, or think we would have done, it's possible this girl felt very provoked. We don't know.

And I do think motivation should matter in sentencing, especially since one of the purposes of prison is to protect the public from dangerous offenders, and that need is going to vary greatly.

DeeDee wrote:

This. We've complained numerous times about badfic writers who don't seem to think that someone can experience trauma or abuse unless it involves being brutally beaten or raped.

We have no idea what was going on in the house or how the girl might have felt. And we can't dictate how a person is going to react to bullying or abuse. Regardless of what any of us would have done, or think we would have done, it's possible this girl felt very provoked. We don't know.

And I do think motivation should matter in sentencing, especially since one of the purposes of prison is to protect the public from dangerous offenders, and that need is going to vary greatly.

Exactly. I consider the fact that she attacked only the person that was treating her so shabbily and not everyone else around her also lends credence to the 'crime of passion' stance.

Meh. What we on this forum think ultimately doesn't really matter; I can only hope that this girl manages to get some counseling to deal with the apparent emotional abuse that she's suffered in that home as well as the ramifications of having actually killed someone once it settles in after the anger dissipates.

Mafiosa wrote:

Aggie wrote:

Exactly. I consider the fact that she attacked only the person that was treating her so shabbily and not everyone else around her also lends credence to the 'crime of passion' stance.

WHAT.

Since you're unable to discern my meaning, I'll dumb it down for you:

If she had stabbed the man and then proceeded to assault her mother, grandmother and everyone else in the vicinity, I may be able to believe that she did it because she was "merely pissed off". However, since there was one and only one target for her single attack (the actual person that was abusing her), it's more believable that she was just lashing out at the thing that was causing her pain (and had presumably been doing so for a long time).

Ask yourselves these questions:

1. Was the man stabbed multiple times (beyond the point of death)?
2a. Was anyone else in the domicile attacked in a similar manner?
2b. If not, why was he the only one singled out for this attack?
3. Was it a premeditated attack or was it spur of the moment?
4. Had the perpetrator ever physically attempted to commit an attack like this in the past (beyond just threatening to)?
5a. Has the perpetrator uttered threats of a similar nature to anyone else in the past?
5b. If so, who and under what circumstance?
6. Did the perpetrator try to cover up the crime or make excuses for it in any way?

Once again for the benefit of those that are unable to read thoroughly, I am not saying that she doesn't deserved to be punished; I'm saying that she may not actually be as much of a danger to the public to necessitate her being thrown into prison for the rest of her life and that rehabilitation in this case may actually be a benefit.

Murder = Wrong

Is that so hard to grasp?

Moral Absolutism = Wrong

Is that so hard to grasp?

Also, what makes you think anyone is saying murder = right?

Aggie wrote:

Moral Absolutism = Wrong

Is that so hard to grasp?

Yes, I live in a world where taking a life is a bad thing under any circumstances, which world do you live in?

Somath Cegem wrote:

Yes, I live in a world where taking a life is a bad thing under any circumstances, which world do you live in?

I live in a world where a person killing someone in self-defense does not make them a demon spawn that needs to be sent to the 9th circle of hell. Nice to meet you. :-)

I am fully aware that self-defense is not the issue in this particular case; I'm just saying that there are instances where intent is a large part of the judicial process. Has it been conclusively proven that she intended to kill him or just assault him (which although still bad is better than flat-out killing)?

Aggie wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Yes, I live in a world where taking a life is a bad thing under any circumstances, which world do you live in?

I live in a world where a person killing someone in self-defense does not make them a demon spawn that needs to be sent to the 9th circle of hell. Nice to meet you. :-)

I am fully aware that self-defense is not the issue in this particular case; I'm just saying that there are instances where intent is a large part of the judicial process. Has it been conclusively proven that she intended to kill him or just assault him (which although still bad is better than flat-out killing)?

I fail to see your point, if you were making one at all. She took a life because somebody was mean, , not self defence, hello 9th circle of hell (I was gonna say prison but since you mentioned it)

*shrugs* I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree then. I believe there are instances when accidental murder shouldn't be condemned and punished to the same degree as premeditated murder and you don't. Case closed, I guess.

Aggie wrote:

I am fully aware that self-defense is not the issue in this particular case; I'm just saying that there are instances where intent is a large part of the judicial process. Has it been conclusively proven that she intended to kill him or just assault him (which although still bad is better than flat-out killing)?

Since we're discussing this particular case, everything you said is irrelevant.

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Aggie wrote:

*shrugs* I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree then. I believe there are instances when accidental murder shouldn't be condemned and punished to the same degree as premeditated murder and you don't. Case closed, I guess.

:law:
This thread has nothing to do with accidental murder. The girl in question could not take the fact her grandpa was harsh and in response took his life, You don't get to walk away with from this with any points at all because every point you made was completely irreverent to the topic.

Somath Cegem wrote:

This thread has nothing to do with accidental murder. The girl in question could not take the fact her grandpa was harsh and in response took his life, You don't get to walk away with from this with any points at all because every point you made was completely irreverent to the topic.

Do you perhaps mean irrelevant?

Somath you're a giant moron.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And your a giant sexist against men, your point?

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And you're a giant sexist against men, your point?

Nice try, dipshit, but that only works if I actually am "a giant sexist against men". You, on the other hand, actually are a giant moron. You can't fucking read and you don't know the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Buy a goddamn dictionary, and learn some basic fucking grammar while you're at it.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And you're a giant sexist against men, your point?

Nice try, dipshit, but that only works if I actually am "a giant sexist against men". You, on the other hand, actually are a giant moron. You can't fucking read and you don't know the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Buy a goddamn dictionary, and learn some basic fucking grammar while you're at it.

Using my spelling which is addled by my being drunk to distracted from you being a massive misandri? Well done. It would work at any other time cyberwulf, but guess what. Just because I can't even walk in a strieght line at the moment does not mean I'm gonna a let up, You are wrong. You know you are wrong and like fuck am I gonna let up.

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And you're a giant sexist against men, your point?

Nice try, dipshit, but that only works if I actually am "a giant sexist against men". You, on the other hand, actually are a giant moron. You can't fucking read and you don't know the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Buy a goddamn dictionary, and learn some basic fucking grammar while you're at it.

Using my spelling which is addled by my being drunk to distracted from you being a massive misandri?

Are you drunk round the clock or something, dipshit?

Please, cite where I'm a "massive misandri" [sic].

Quote :

Just because I can't even walk in a strieght line at the moment does not mean I'm gonna a let up, You are wrong. You know you are wrong and like fuck am I gonna let up.

Get off the internet and go sleep it off, you fucking waste of space. You haven't a fuckbastard clue what's even being said here.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And you're a giant sexist against men, your point?

Nice try, dipshit, but that only works if I actually am "a giant sexist against men". You, on the other hand, actually are a giant moron. You can't fucking read and you don't know the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Buy a goddamn dictionary, and learn some basic fucking grammar while you're at it.

Using my spelling which is addled by my being drunk to distracted from you being a massive misandri?

Are you drunk round the clock or something, dipshit?

Please, cite where I'm a "massive misandri" [sic]

Hmm, Give me a minute.

Quote :

Just because I can't even walk in a straight line at the moment does not mean I'm gonna a let up, You are wrong. You know you are wrong and like fuck am I gonna let up.

Get off the internet and go sleep it off, you fucking waste of space. You haven't a fuckbastard clue what's even being said here.

Hmm, Man does something woman doesn't like, woman kills man, wulf defends woman, Woman takes life over petty thing, so wulf is wrong but won't admit it it, hmm, that's pretty misandritic to me, anybody other than wulf care to disagree?

Somath Cegem wrote:

Hmm, Man does something woman doesn't like, woman kills man, wulf defends woman, Woman takes life over petty thing, so wulf is wrong but won't admit it it, hmm, that's pretty misandritic to me, anybody other than wulf care to disagree?

You really are a giant fucking moron. Read the goddamn thread when you're sober. This is like me claiming you're a misogynist because you're disagreeing with me, a woman, and being a complete fuckhead.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Hmm, Man does something woman doesn't like, woman kills man, wulf defends woman, Woman takes life over petty thing, so wulf is wrong but won't admit it it, hmm, that's pretty misandritic to me, anybody other than wulf care to disagree?

You really are a giant fucking moron. Read the goddamn thread when you're sober. This is like me claiming you're a misogynist because you're disagreeing with me, a woman, and being a complete fuckhead.

Now now, I didn't resort to name calling did I? Just think about it for a second and reverse the genders.
A grandma does something harsh and there grandson lashes out and kills them, can you honestly say you would feel the same?

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Somath you're a giant moron.

And you're a giant sexist against men, your point?

Nice try, dipshit, but that only works if I actually am "a giant sexist against men". You, on the other hand, actually are a giant moron. You can't fucking read and you don't know the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Buy a goddamn dictionary, and learn some basic fucking grammar while you're at it.

Using my spelling which is addled by my being drunk to distracted from you being a massive misandri?

Are you drunk round the clock or something, dipshit?

Please, cite where I'm a "massive misandri" [sic]

Hmm, Give me a minute.

Quote :

Just because I can't even walk in a straight line at the moment does not mean I'm gonna a let up, You are wrong. You know you are wrong and like fuck am I gonna let up.

Get off the internet and go sleep it off, you fucking waste of space. You haven't a fuckbastard clue what's even being said here.

Hmm, Man does something woman doesn't like, woman kills man, wulf defends woman, Woman takes life over petty thing, so wulf is wrong but won't admit it it, hmm, that's pretty misandritic to me, anybody other than wulf care to disagree?

Erm, no.

Someone posts horrific news, goes "hurrdurr prison rape baseball bat kill maim destroy", Cyberwulf comes and points out hypocrisy, neatly packaged in colourful insults, people start screaming at each other, hijinks ensue. And she does that regardless of gender. I mean, you can insult her all you want, but a misandrist she's not.

You're no fun when you're drunk, Somath.

Also? That girl in the article is a child who was bullied by an authority figure. I cannot wrap my head around the fact that someone would try a thirteen-year-old, who seemingly has no extensive criminal record*, as an adult. Considering there's a "history", however they may define it, I don't understand why no adult managed to either diffuse the situation before she reached the breaking point or noticed any "sociopathic behaviour". Girl needs therapy first, punishment second.

*as in having assaulted and killed people before, because they sure as hell would have mentioned that

Quote :

She's over the age of 10 so she'll be charged as an adult.

WTF?

Can she vote? Drive? Smoke? Drink? Enlist in the military? Or do ANYTHING ELSE an actual adult can do BESIDES go to prison?

13 =/= Adult

Now, her actions are clearly wrong and so on and so forth, but she's not an adult. Charging her as one is a pitiful joke.

For once, I agree with Mikey. It's a little odd that someone can be excepted to have an adult level of responsibility when it comes to committing a crime, but not when it comes to, say, voting. We can't expect kids to be mature and responsible only when it suits our purposes.