Girl kills Grandfather over milk

I'll restate my point.

Murder = Wrong. Justify it or fuck of.

No fluff, no twists. I want cold hard evidence that killing this man was the only option and nothing else.

Aggie wrote:

Moral Absolutism = Wrong

So, are you in essence saying the only moral absolute is that there are no moral absolutes? Or is it just improper to state out loud that there are moral absolutes?

Look, I don't know what happened to this girl in her life. I don't know exactly what this man did to her. He could have emotionally abused her, sexually abused her, or physically abused her -- each is horrible, so I'm not making excuses for that.

But the thing is, we don't know. We don't know what mental or psychological problems the girl has, if any. We don't know the extent or duration of the abuse.

I'm now hesitant to say she sounds psychopathic (and note I say 'SOUNDS psychopathic' rather than 'IS psychopathic'), since I sure as hell don't know, but I'm just as equally hesitant to call her a 'poor girl' who was suffering mental abuse for years by this man without any relief and that's what caused her action, because I sure as hell don't know that either.

I don't think she should be locked up for the rest of her natural life with adults who will take advantage of her youth and just abuse her further or teach her to be a better criminal. Put her in a juvenile center where she can be observed and where she can continue her education. I think she needs help, but she also needs to be locked away from society for some years.

Somath Cegem wrote:

I'll restate my point.

Murder = Wrong. Justify it or fuck of.

No fluff, no twists. I want cold hard evidence that killing this man was the only option and nothing else.

Do you know the reason why we have a judicial process, Somath? It's so that, in complex legal situations with lots of shades of gray, a jury and judge can find a punishment that fits each individual crime depending on its unique circumstances. Moral absolutism like the ideas you're espousing has no business in neither the court of law nor this crime in particular.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Quote :

She's over the age of 10 so she'll be charged as an adult.

WTF?

Can she vote? Drive? Smoke? Drink? Enlist in the military? Or do ANYTHING ELSE an actual adult can do BESIDES go to prison?

13 =/= Adult

Now,
her actions are clearly wrong and so on and so forth, but she's not an
adult. Charging her as one is a pitiful joke.

Seconded like woah.

Malganis wrote:

I don't think she should be locked up for the rest of her natural life with adults who will take advantage of her youth and just abuse her further or teach her to be a better criminal. Put her in a juvenile center where she can be observed and where she can continue her education. I think she needs help, but she also needs to be locked away from society for some years.

Exactly my point; thank you for stating it more clearly.

Aggie wrote:

I live in a world where a person killing someone in self-defense does not make them a demon spawn that needs to be sent to the 9th circle of hell. Nice to meet you. :-)

Aggie wrote:

Self-defense

Aggie wrote:

Self-defense

Was she defending the fucking milk or something? Seriously? Self-defense? :eyebrow:

theweirdkind wrote:

Was she defending the fucking milk or something? Seriously? Self-defense? :eyebrow:

With all due respect, I'm not going to repeat myself. I've already said that that was a comment about my general position on moral absolutism in regards to murder and not this case in particular which, if you'll read up a bit, was the basis of several people saying that it was irrelevant. However, since you do seem to like mindless repetition...

With all due respect, I'm not going to repeat myself. I've already said that that was a comment about my general position on moral absolutism in regards to murder and not this case in particular which, if you'll read up a bit, was the basis of several people saying that it was irrelevant. However, since you do seem to like mindless repetition...

With all due respect, I'm not going to repeat myself. I've already said that that was a comment about my general position on moral absolutism in regards to murder and not this case in particular which, if you'll read up a bit, was the basis of several people saying that it was irrelevant.

Personally I think she wasn't afraid of the consequences because she felt that the treatment of her grandfather was worse.

I personally think you've all got your heads up your arses because there's not enough information to draw any conclusions. Seriously, you're arguing over scenarios you've invented.

Bamshalam wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Quote :

She's over the age of 10 so she'll be charged as an adult.

WTF?

Can she vote? Drive? Smoke? Drink? Enlist in the military? Or do ANYTHING ELSE an actual adult can do BESIDES go to prison?

Seconded like woah.

Thirded, also like woah. I would also like to use this opportunity to highlight the unrelated fact that it's apparently A-OK for people to get crippled, killed or traumatized for their country long before they are considered mature enough to peacefully have a beer.

Verandering wrote:

Seriously, you're arguing over scenarios you've invented.

I tried pointing that out about three pages back. Didn't work then, either.

Somath Cegem wrote:

A grandma does something harsh and there grandson lashes out and kills them, can you honestly say you would feel the same?

Yes, I would. I would feel the same if this was a thirteen year old boy who'd killed his grandfather during an argument. Know why? Because it isn't about gender, douchebag. It's about a child killing a caregiver.

Somath Cegem wrote:

I'll restate my point.

Murder = Wrong. Justify it or fuck of.

No fluff, no twists. I want cold hard evidence that killing this man was the only option and nothing else.

No-one's arguing that it wasn't wrong, shitforbrains. People are arguing that it's highly unlikely the child is simply pure unadulterated evil.

Are you sober yet? Planning to read the thread properly?

Verandering wrote:

I personally think you've all got your heads up your arses because there's not enough information to draw any conclusions. Seriously, you're arguing over scenarios you've invented.

Except that in the vast majority of cases where a child murders a parent/guardian, there's usually a history of abuse.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Verandering wrote:

I personally think you've all got your heads up your arses because there's not enough information to draw any conclusions. Seriously, you're arguing over scenarios you've invented.

Except that in the vast majority of cases where a child murders a parent/guardian, there's usually a history of abuse.

Yes. It's nature vs nurture all over again. If you grow up in a household where the strongest person has all the power, you are going to grow up thinking that only if you are strong will you have power. And if that person bullies you, you're not exactly going to grow up thinking that a loving relationship is the way to power over other people.

Harley, shut the fuck up.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Verandering wrote:

I personally think you've all got your heads up your arses because there's not enough information to draw any conclusions. Seriously, you're arguing over scenarios you've invented.

Except that in the vast majority of cases where a child murders a parent/guardian, there's usually a history of abuse.

I am aware of that, but we don't know for sure either way. The point? There is none. Except that WGWers like to bitch at each other.

Verandering wrote:

I am aware of that, but we don't know for sure either way. The point? There is none. Except that WGWers like to bitch at each other.

Quoted for truth.

It's obvious that as a man, especially one who does not bow before his superiors deserves to die. I only hope he burns for all eternity.

Bamshalam wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

I'll restate my point.

Murder = Wrong. Justify it or fuck of.

No fluff, no twists. I want cold hard evidence that killing this man was the only option and nothing else.

Do you know the reason why we have a judicial process, Somath? It's so that, in complex legal situations with lots of shades of gray, a jury and judge can find a punishment that fits each individual crime depending on its unique circumstances. Moral absolutism like the ideas you're espousing has no business in neither the court of law nor this crime in particular.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Quote :

She's over the age of 10 so she'll be charged as an adult.

WTF?

Can she vote? Drive? Smoke? Drink? Enlist in the military? Or do ANYTHING ELSE an actual adult can do BESIDES go to prison?

13 =/= Adult

Now,
her actions are clearly wrong and so on and so forth, but she's not an
adult. Charging her as one is a pitiful joke.

Seconded like woah.

1.) Murder, by definition, is always illegal. If it isn't, it's justifiable homicide. Certain cases may merit a lighter sentence than others, hence first and second degree murder.
2.) I love it when we agree.