Gender test for World champion

Here's the link for the story.
Caster Semenya won women's 800m in Berlin's world championships. She was in control of the race from start till the end.

Now they want to conduct her a gender test.

Quote :

The IAAF has asked the South African athletics federation to conduct a
gender verification test on 800-metre runner Caster Semenya amid
concerns she does not meet the requirements to compete as a woman.

But is it really the biological side of things that matters? And is it really appropriate to question things like somebody's gender, because the person doesn't meet the typical standards of their gender?

Sorsa A. Jänis wrote:

But is it really the biological side of things that matters? And is it really appropriate to question things like somebody's gender, because the person doesn't meet the typical standards of their gender?

Errr... because the race is restricted to the female sex? Otherwise, why have women's sports at all?

I think you're confusing sex (= biology) and gender (= how you perceive yourself as male or female). It could absolutely have been handled better (both by the IAAF and the South Africans), but the IAAF concern themselves with the biological side of things and have to draw the line somewhere.
Article here on the complexities of sex testing.

Quote :

The fact that ASA (Athletics South Africa) believe that "asking her to show us her private parts" will do the job suggests that they have little idea of the issues. In that case, the first quote above, regarding ASA being "certain" of her sex before sending her, is laughable. The only thing we can be certain of is that ASA have little understanding of the problem.

Second, even genetic testing cannot confirm male or female. In fact, it is so complex that to do proper sex determination testing, you have to take a multi-disciplinary approach, and make use of internal medicine specialists, gynecologists, psychologists, geneticists and endocrinologists. I am afraid that dropping your pants is not proof at all.

(...)

The moment she ran 1:56, and was destined to challenge for gold in Berlin, this controversy was going to happen

This young woman came out of the blue and made a pretty amazing performance. I think the ASA are a tad hypocritical in their indignation.

**Edited because my spelling is terrible.**

This is part of the reason why the IOC dropped gender testing for the Olympics prior to the Sydney games - the process of gender testing is so comprehensive, yet even then it can't account for certain natural conditions.

AAARGH!!!! Why did that slip there.

I'm being too tired and furious here, even half of my post got wiped off somewhere.

I was supposed to rant about how they just can't determine anyone's sex by the face or what's in their pants.

Why don't they just check and see if she has ovaries? There, problem solved.

But the thing is that they are threatening her being a woman. They can't just barge there and pull her trousers down, because it violates human rights. People have a right to be whatever they are without being nailed, since when it has been against the law to be a woman with manly features.

Well I meant like an ultrasound or something, since, you know ovaries aren't visible on the outside.

Chaltab wrote:

Well I meant like an ultrasound or something, since, you know ovaries aren't visible on the outside.

I know that. Pulling trousers down was merely a methaphor.

Sorsa A. Jänis wrote:

Chaltab wrote:

Well I meant like an ultrasound or something, since, you know ovaries aren't visible on the outside.

I know that. Pulling trousers down was merely a methaphor.

A comparison using Methamphetamine?

Chaltab wrote:

Well I meant like an ultrasound or something, since, you know ovaries aren't visible on the outside.

Not all biological women have ovaries, for a variety of reasons.

AngryRobotsInc wrote:

Chaltab wrote:

Well I meant like an ultrasound or something, since, you know ovaries aren't visible on the outside.

Not all biological women have ovaries, for a variety of reasons.

Yes, but surgery (a ovectomy?) to remove them is probably the most common, and some record of it would probably exist, or a note from a gynecologist about where they are/went.

So... because she runs really good and has muscles, she's a man?

Wut.

For fucks' sake this is totally legitimate. It just like the dozens of steroid tests she probably took before the race. They're making sure she didn't break any rules. If she is biologically a he, he must be disqualified.

Avari is right, God help me.

Determining gender CAN be super complicated though. In cases of ambiguous genitalia it can be almost impossible to even determine sex. What kind of tissue your gonads are made out of is not always the final answer.

OK, this is the Daily Mail's take on it. As you read it, I want you to bear in mind that it is one of the best-selling newspapers in this country. It makes me very ashamed to be British.

^
I WOULD read it, but the British haven't had anything to add to any conversation since the 40s.

ZoZo wrote:

OK, this is the Daily Mail's take on it. As you read it, I want you to bear in mind that it is one of the best-selling newspapers in this country. It makes me very ashamed to be British.

Apparently I'm a strange hybrid hermaphrodite. Or possibly should be murdered in Switzerland, as I did waffle on one of the responses. Whoda thunk?

Not clicking that link, I know better. I had a non-rageful day, I want to keep it that way.

On another note, WTF, Mikey? Did you lose a bet to Harley or something?

I just saw what she had on her shirt.

Semenya.

SEMENya.

Gender wank? For fuck's sake. Can we find something else to wank about please?

Verandering wrote:

Gender wank? For fuck's sake. Can we find something else to wank about please?

So... abortions.

ZoZo wrote:

Verandering wrote:

Gender wank? For fuck's sake. Can we find something else to wank about please?

So... abortions.

Or religion.

Verandering wrote:

Gender wank? For fuck's sake. Can we find something else to wank about please?

Let's talk about how her name is an anagram of "Yes, a secret man" instead.

Well it makes complete sense to test for her gender. The reason for the gender separated sports in the first place is because of the biological differences between the sexes. It doesn't matter if you think you're a woman, you're still more likely to have more upper body strength than a woman would. That sort of thing.

Also they'd almost certainly be testing for XX chromosomes, not a vagina.

Discussion over.

Dr. Professor Science wrote:

Well it makes complete sense to test for her gender. The reason for the gender separated sports in the first place is because of the biological differences between the sexes.

Gender is not the same as sex. You just contradicted yourself by stating that gender is the same as one's sex.

Quote :

It doesn't matter if you think you're a woman, you're still more likely to have more upper body strength than a woman would. That sort of thing.

Also they'd almost certainly be testing for XX chromosomes, not a vagina.

Discussion over.

Isn't it discrimination to kick her out for being intersexual? A intersexual doesn't "think" they are a gender that were told to be, raised to be, and believed they were since the abnormality in their chromosomes doesn't always have to be superficial and they may not have known they weren't of either sex. Plus, steroid abuse is common with athletes and her giant clitoris (if she has a giant clit at all) may not have came from her being intersexual if she were one.