Gender test for World champion

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1.) If she's male, she has an unfair advantage over every female in the field and should be disqualified. It doesn't matter if she THINKS she's a female, she'd still have the same increased athleticism from being male.

It's as much discrimination to kick her out as it is discrimination to prohibit Kenny Perry from competing on the LPGA tour, assuming they determine she's male.

2.) If her mannish appearance is due to steroid abuse, she should STILL be kicked out.

As for my avatar, Nihilist is a jackass.

Quadratus wrote:

Isn't it discrimination to kick her out for being intersexual?

No.

The International Association of Athletics Federations (the governing body for track and field) can set whatever requirements (including post-race testing) it deems necessary to ensure a fair competition between athletes in events that they put on.

Part of the reason this has come up is a sudden increase in her ability. In October, 2008 she won an 800m race with a time of 2:04. Less than a year later, her time dropped to 1:56. That's a very dramatic decrease in a short amount of time, and one that will definitely raise a red flag to any athletic federation.

Quadratus wrote:

Gender is not the same as sex. You just contradicted yourself by stating that gender is the same as one's sex.

A slip of the vocabulary. Mea maxima culpa.

Quote :

Isn't it discrimination to kick her out for being intersexual? A intersexual doesn't "think" they are a gender that were told to be, raised to be, and believed they were since the abnormality in their chromosomes doesn't always have to be superficial and they may not have known they weren't of either sex. Plus, steroid abuse is common with athletes and her giant clitoris (if she has a giant clit at all) may not have came from her being intersexual if she were one.

No, it's not discrimination so long as they're kicking them out of the league they don't belong in. Sports go by sex, not by gender. If she's a man who thinks he's a woman, they should still be competing in the male league because genetically they are male. If she's on steroids, she should be kicked out anyway.

Quadratus wrote:

Isn't it discrimination to kick her out for being intersexual? A intersexual doesn't "think" they are a gender that were told to be, raised to be, and believed they were since the abnormality in their chromosomes doesn't always have to be superficial and they may not have known they weren't of either sex. Plus, steroid abuse is common with athletes and her giant clitoris (if she has a giant clit at all) may not have came from her being intersexual if she were one.

All of which is true, but biology is the important factor here. Biological men tend to turn in faster sprint times than biological women. Biological women tend to turn in faster marathon times than biological men (I think; I'm a little shakier on this one). There are biologically determined factors that affect a person's performance in a sport, which are therefore relevant to whether or not this particular race was fairly run.

If the only reason for the testing was that she ran faster than everyone else, that would be unfairly discriminatory. As Spotts pointed out, there are other reasons that she's being tested.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

As for my avatar, Nihilist is a jackass.

Saying shit like that isn't helping your cause to get your avatar rights back.

theweirdkind wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

As for my avatar, Nihilist is a jackass.

Saying shit like that isn't helping your cause to get your avatar rights back.

Oh, I get off on his pain, really.

Nihilist wrote:

theweirdkind wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

As for my avatar, Nihilist is a jackass.

Saying shit like that isn't helping your cause to get your avatar rights back.

Oh, I get off on his pain, really.

^
THAT FACE HAUNTS MY SOUL!!! :unskilled78:

Kelly wrote:

Biological women tend to turn in faster marathon times than biological men (I think; I'm a little shakier on this one).

Wiki sez the world record for men's marathon is a good ten minutes faster than the women's record. I don't know about averages.

The thing is, it's a little different if she actually has a mixture of male and female physiology than if she had a male body. At which point is someone's body too masculine to be accepted as female? I don't know if there's a medical standard, but I doubt it's a simple thing.

IT IS SIMPLE, IF THE DOZENS OF PROFESSIONALS ARBITRARILY DECIDE SHE IS A HE, THAN A HE SHE IS!!!

DeeDee wrote:

The thing is, it's a little different if she actually has a mixture of male and female physiology than if she had a male body. At which point is someone's body too masculine to be accepted as female? I don't know if there's a medical standard, but I doubt it's a simple thing.

I think you're kind of obfusticating the issue. A fair test won't go by "well, she looks pretty manly" or "these features are masculine, but these are not..." That's not really a standard that one could objectively apply to everyone in the sport. I would guess that they'll go chromosomally, which may not be easy to test for, but ultimately is simple. Either she's got an XX (or possibly X0) or she does not.

There is a miniscule chance that, in that case, she could have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (where a fetus is chromosomally male, but totally unresponsive to testosterone and therefore develops as a female), but the odds of that are very much against her. It can happen, but it's really, really uncommon.

I'm not conversant with the regulations, and don't care enough to look them up, but I think even XXX chromosomes would discount her, and there's no genetic confusion about whether that's female or not.

myeerah wrote:

I'm not conversant with the regulations, and don't care enough to look them up, but I think even XXX chromosomes would discount her, and there's no genetic confusion about whether that's female or not.

There's also no reason it should. Trisomy X doesn't result any biological differentiation from XX chromosomal females.

BTW, on a side note, what's with all these officials wanting to see genitals? The internet exists you morons.

Verandering wrote:

BTW, on a side note, what's with all these officials wanting to see genitals? The internet exists you morons.

wat

Verandering wrote:

BTW, on a side note, what's with all these officials wanting to see genitals? The internet exists you morons.

I imagine reality has better fidelity than Raster graphics can provide.

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Well, it's from the Daily Mail and all, but I'd figure I'd post it anyways.

Quote :

World champion 800m runner Caster Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no womb or ovaries, an Australian newspaper has claimed.

Quoting a source close to the International Association of Athletics Federations, the Sydney Daily Telegraph said Semenya had internal testes - male sexual organs which produce testosterone and which in turn produces muscle bulk, body hair and a deep voice.
The 18-year-old won gold with a sensational final-lap sprint to streak away from the competition in Berlin

Given that the article is already gone, I doubt that has any basis in reality.

Might be gone from Daily Mail, but it's up on a couple of Australian news sites.
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MSNBC has picked it up, based on a different news source (the Sydney Morning Herald).

If it is true (and I emphasize "if" because it's just a report), then the IAAF would have grounds to strip her title if the amount of testosterone present pushes her over the maximum allowed for female athletes in competition.

I found out about the suppose confirmation of her being intersex today by watching the Spanish channel that I get through basic cable. Though to be honest, my mom was ranting about it before I saw the news report. During her rant, I had no idea what she was talking about; it wasn't until my mom pointed to the TV that I finally understood what she was talking about.

From what I gather from the news report (the little that I saw) and from what my mother said, it was stated that Semenya was a hermaphrodite and that she would be stripped of her metal. My mother said that it would be unfair to strip her of her metal over something that she had no control over.

I'm surprised that my mom was so open-minded about it. I thought she would be more conservative considering that she is in her 60s and grew up in a very strict household.

I saw this on the news tonight, and basically they say that she's got both. She's got internal testes and produces an excess amount of testosterone. But she's also got female genetalia.

I think what they have to decide/find out is whether or not her body is making use of the excess testosterone. Enough testosterone in a female body, or intersexed body, and it could be considered on par with taking steroids for a bio-female.

I just feel sorry for her, this should be handled privately, it shouldn't be a media blitz DX

Although I suppose it's somewhat positive to let people know that people like this DO exist, instead of those insane people who try to deny it like those crazies who try to deny the holocaust.

ETA: Also, I'm a little fuzzy on it, but I'm pretty sure that even if they disqualify her from actually getting to keep the title, she still keeps the medal, but the second place person also gets a medal, or something. It's all convoluted.

Deutschtard wrote:

I just feel sorry for her, this should be handled privately, it shouldn't be a media blitz

According to one report, it was supposed to be handled privately and only became public knowledge because a fax was sent to the wrong person.

Ragey wrote:

My mother said that it would be unfair to strip her of her metal over something that she had no control over.

I also have no control over whether I'm male or female. And yet if I were to compete in and win an all females footrace (unlikely, as I run like a badly wounded yak), I'd also be stripped of the medal once my sex was determined. And that would be totally fair.

Since no man could possibly imitate the glory that is the female, this is a womyn. Were she white and male, none of this would have happened, you racist, misogynistic hole-fuckers.