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 World war three started.

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PostSubject: World war three started.   Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:49 am

As I woke up this morning it finally happened. I saw two mushroom clouds towering in the distance when I looked out of the window. A bit odd, so I checked the view facing south and saw another one forming. The radiation burned my face, I'm putting ice on the blisters now.

On the radio they said that besides the nuke attacks, an unknown new viral infection is spreading rapidly. It is as contagious as the flu and will reportedly kill you after about six weeks, enough time to infect more people first. Clearly a biological weapon, although it is as yet unknown which party unleashed it, or why they think it's giving them an advantage.

I guess this is the end. Goodbye everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:57 am

Nice try, spork.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:00 pm

Not a try. Recurring dream. Go ahead, tell me what it means.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:23 pm

spork wrote:
It is as contagious as the flu and will reportedly kill you after about six weeks, enough time to infect more people first.

Someone has been playing Pandemic.

spork wrote:
Not a try. Recurring dream. Go ahead, tell me what it means.

You are a thoroughly bored, uninteresting, mostly irrelevant human being trying to add importance to your life by worrying about Big Things.

If you want more Mikey Psychoanalysis, it'll cost you.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:25 pm

You may be the only one of us who doesn't have at least one friend or acquaintance to talk about their dreams to.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:28 am

What do you want from this
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:47 am

Mikey: pretty accurate, as usual. I might actually pay you for that. I'm not getting my info from games, though.

Penguin wrote:
What do you want from this
I don't know. Discussion perhaps, or maybe just rant about it anonymously on a website where no one cares to hear it, to make myself feel better for a minute?

I just have this sinking feeling that we are living in the scene below. We've got more than enough weapons to wipe out ourselves completely and I see no convincing reason to believe we have the common sense not to use them. We depend on several resources that we're depleting as fast as we can, poisoning our own well as a bonus. Meanwhile the news is obfuscating the big picture by focussing on the latest fart / sports / celebrity / whatever.

Anyway, we've all heard that story. If you think I'm exaggerating or dead wrong, I hope you're right.

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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:38 am

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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:42 pm

spork wrote:
We've got more than enough weapons to wipe out ourselves completely and I see no convincing reason to believe we have the common sense not to use them.

If you're thinking of nukes, the entire Cold War never going hot should be pretty convincing. We've had the power to wipe out entire cities at once since 1945, yet haven't done it since. Basically, MAD works.

Quote :
We depend on several resources that we're depleting as fast as we can, poisoning our own well as a bonus.

There are solutions to some of these, but people find them unsavory. Like nuclear power, hydroeclectric, etc.

Quote :
Meanwhile the news is obfuscating the big picture by focussing on the latest fart / sports / celebrity / whatever.

They're only selling people what they want to buy. Realistically, if news coverage was 24/7 "fracking turns your tapwater into explodey fartjuice," would you expect anything to change, or would people just change the channel?

We've got this notion that it's noble to wallow in bad news, that it's somehow courageous to sit around being miserable about the state of the world while other people are too busy filling their lives with cheerful bullshit. I remember reading the introduction to V for Vendetta, whose exact text I can't find at the moment, but here's a summary from another site:

Quote :
In his introduction to the 1990 DC Comics compilation of the series V for Vendetta, co-author David Lloyd shares with the reader a personal experience that had happened at a pub a few evenings before. While he was enjoying his stout at the bar, the TV was murmuring in the distance, above the chattering people. After Eastenders, a re-run of the sitcom Porridge was screened, followed by A Question of Sport, a panel quiz game in which sports celebrities answered questions about other sports celebrities. Just when The Nine o’Clock News started, the television was switched off and its sound substituted by pop music. The barman excused himself when Lloyd asked him about the news being turned off: ‘‘Don’t ask me - that was the wife,’ he replied, in a cheeky, cheery manner, as the subject of his playful targeting bustled in a corner of the bar.
The two adjectives Lloyd uses to describe the barman’s manner are recurrent throughout the introduction: the soap opera, the sitcom and the panel quiz are all ‘cheeky, cheery’, as are the celebrities participating in it. On leaving the bar, Lloyd adds, he was certain the TV would be silent for the rest of the evening, since he knew the news was followed by The Boys from Brazil, ‘a film with few cheeky, cheery characters in it, which is all about a bunch of Nazis creating 94 clones of Adolf Hitler.’
These reminiscences allow him to establish a similarity between the film and the comic book series he created with Alan Moore: ‘There aren’t many cheeky, cheery characters in V FOR VENDETTA either; and it’s for people who don’t switch off the news.’

"This is a good, miserable story for good, miserable people. You know, the smart ones. You're a smart person for buying this book."

It just doesn't accomplish anything. Miserable people have a tough time getting off their asses. Sometimes you can get fired up about how bad things are, but that's still a weak foundation. The TEA Party and OWS are/were full of people who were determined to fix things; they set out and became little more than political punchlines and useful idiots.

The info's still out there if you look for it. The question is, what can you do with it? Expecting humanity to wise the fuck up with a little change in TV programming is naive. That doesn't mean that we're on the verge of disaster, either.

And if you really want a plausible "everything's fucked" scenario: Our power stations use parts that can take months to find replacements for. One bad solar flare could effectively put us all back in the stone age.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:02 am

Thanks for taking the time to write that, Penguin.

First off, of course I agree that there is little point to sitting around being miserable. IRL I'm not spending much time even thinking about all this, feeling bad about it doesn't help.
On the other hand, that doesn't change that, based on what I know, I'm pretty pessimistic.

Penguin wrote:
If you're thinking of nukes, the entire Cold War never going hot should be pretty convincing. We've had the power to wipe out entire cities at once since 1945, yet haven't done it since. Basically, MAD works.
I was thinking of the ABC weapons, so yeah, nukes, as well as biological and chemical.

MAD has worked for some 60 years now, true. The bomb did come uncomfortably close to busting in that period several times, though. Cuba crisis, etc. So imo it didn't work well enough to think it safe. My interpretation is more that we've been lucky so far and it's mostly a matter of time before the shit does hit the fan. Especially so because a real crisis (caused by resource depletion) would make serious conflicts more likely.

Quote :
There are solutions to some of these, but people find them unsavory. Like nuclear power, hydroeclectric, etc.
Afaik the problem with these is, they're just much less efficient. If they were not, they would have replaced coal and oil long ago. I don't want to start a detailed discussion about this, but to mention one thing, there is no good alternative for oil yet as a fuel, nor as a base for plastics, fertilizers and some other important products. Where "good" means: efficient enough for large scale replacement.

Quote :
They're only selling people what they want to buy. Realistically, if news coverage was 24/7 "fracking turns your tapwater into explodey fartjuice," would you expect anything to change, or would people just change the channel?
Good point.

Quote :
The info's still out there if you look for it. The question is, what can you do with it?
Yes, that's the question, isn't it? I'll just go on leading my irrelevant life now. Don't want to bore Mikey to death.

Quote :
And if you really want a plausible "everything's fucked" scenario: Our power stations use parts that can take months to find replacements for. One bad solar flare could effectively put us all back in the stone age.
I know about that scenario, although I think it is not as immediately threatening. It takes a really big flare (aimed exactly in our direction) before you notice something, and even then the effects will mostly come down to a lot of temporary inconvience, afaik. It would cause a lot of damage to electronic equipment. Could be a disaster, yes, but not much more threatening than other natural disasters like hurricanes; not on the scale of "we're all going to die".
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:45 am

spork wrote:


Quote :
And if you really want a plausible "everything's fucked" scenario: Our power stations use parts that can take months to find replacements for. One bad solar flare could effectively put us all back in the stone age.
I know about that scenario, although I think it is not as immediately threatening.
Nah. It's much more likely that lazy Russian workers will dump a batch of experimental mutated rabies at sea where it will infect a whale which will beach itself in its madness and one of the volunteers who helps cut it up will prick her finger and wind up screaming and foaming all over a policeman and then the entire human population will fall to super-rabies except that one group of people in South America who have natural immunity. It was on the Discovery Channel so it must be true.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:38 pm

Penguin wrote:
There are solutions to some of these, but people find them unsavory. Like nuclear power, hydroeclectric, etc.

Which, assuming government force doesn't fuck it all up, will come about when oil gets too rare and expensive to depend on.

It's either that or Fallout: The Prologue.  And, Buick sized Tarantula Hawks notwithstanding, that turned out pretty well.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:35 am

spork wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write that, Penguin.

NP

Quote :
First off, of course I agree that there is little point to sitting around being miserable. IRL I'm not spending much time even thinking about all this, feeling bad about it doesn't help.
On the other hand, that doesn't change that, based on what I know, I'm pretty pessimistic.

It is what it is.

Penguin wrote:
If you're thinking of nukes, the entire Cold War never going hot should be pretty convincing. We've had the power to wipe out entire cities at once since 1945, yet haven't done it since. Basically, MAD works.
I was thinking of the ABC weapons, so yeah, nukes, as well as biological and chemical.

MAD has worked for some 60 years now, true. The bomb did come uncomfortably close to busting in that period several times, though. Cuba crisis, etc. So imo it didn't work well enough to think it safe. My interpretation is more that we've been lucky so far and it's mostly a matter of time before the shit does hit the fan. Especially so because a real crisis (caused by resource depletion) would make serious conflicts more likely.

Quote :
Quote :
There are solutions to some of these, but people find them unsavory. Like nuclear power, hydroeclectric, etc.
Afaik the problem with these is, they're just much less efficient. If they were not, they would have replaced coal and oil long ago. I don't want to start a detailed discussion about this, but to mention one thing, there is no good alternative for oil yet as a fuel, nor as a base for plastics, fertilizers and some other important products. Where "good" means: efficient enough for large scale replacement.

Actually, nuclear power is more efficient than anything else we've got by a huge margin, and hydroelectric is the most efficient and reliable source of "renewable" energy. The problem is that there's more to the picture than simply what's best for power production. NIMBY types don't want nuke plants around, and eventually you have to figure out what to do with the waste (though the French have been particularly smart about this). Hydroelectric power is extremely "clean" but requires damming rivers, which can have a massive negative impact on the local environment.


Quote :
I know about that scenario, although I think it is not as immediately threatening. It takes a really big flare (aimed exactly in our direction) before you notice something, and even then the effects will mostly come down to a lot of temporary inconvience, afaik. It would cause a lot of damage to electronic equipment. Could be a disaster, yes, but not much more threatening than other natural disasters like hurricanes; not on the scale of "we're all going to die".

Here's the thing, that's what I was getting at: "A lot of damage to electrical equipment," like the kind used by power stations. The kind that's essentially irreplaceable. Now imagine North America going Mad Max and what that would mean for the rest of the world. Nothing but much smaller and weaker countries (nevertheless with nukes) to stand in the way of Russia. And it's every bit as preventable as a hurricane. The solar flare, anyway.

Fixing our infrastructure would do wonders to mitigate the problem.

Cyberwulf wrote:
spork wrote:


Quote :
And if you really want a plausible "everything's fucked" scenario: Our power stations use parts that can take months to find replacements for. One bad solar flare could effectively put us all back in the stone age.
I know about that scenario, although I think it is not as immediately threatening.
Nah. It's much more likely that lazy Russian workers will dump a batch of experimental mutated rabies at sea where it will infect a whale which will beach itself in its madness and one of the volunteers who helps cut it up will prick her finger and wind up screaming and foaming all over a policeman and then the entire human population will fall to super-rabies except that one group of people in South America who have natural immunity. It was on the Discovery Channel so it must be true.

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I thought the History Channel's supposed to be the go-to for nutter butters.[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:37 am

Penguin wrote:
Actually, nuclear power is more efficient than anything else we've got by a huge margin, and hydroelectric is the most efficient and reliable source of "renewable" energy. The problem is that there's more to the picture than simply what's best for power production. NIMBY types don't want nuke plants around, and eventually you have to figure out what to do with the waste (though the French have been particularly smart about this). Hydroelectric power is extremely "clean" but requires damming rivers, which can have a massive negative impact on the local environment.
And then there are several types of nuclear power. And there is also the Desertec plan as one of the most promising potential future power sources (building solar power plants in the desert and transporting the electricity with modern HVDC cables).
But then again there are also reasons why they haven't replaced coal yet (NIMBY is one, yes), and a serious discussion about this would go on forever and put poor Mikey into torpor. Wink
I'll just mention Without the Hot Air, from McKay, as a very good overview article. Readable for the layman, freely available, very informative.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Penguin wrote:


Cyberwulf wrote:
spork wrote:


Quote :
And if you really want a plausible "everything's fucked" scenario: Our power stations use parts that can take months to find replacements for. One bad solar flare could effectively put us all back in the stone age.
I know about that scenario, although I think it is not as immediately threatening.
Nah. It's much more likely that lazy Russian workers will dump a batch of experimental mutated rabies at sea where it will infect a whale which will beach itself in its madness and one of the volunteers who helps cut it up will prick her finger and wind up screaming and foaming all over a policeman and then the entire human population will fall to super-rabies except that one group of people in South America who have natural immunity. It was on the Discovery Channel so it must be true.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I thought the History Channel's supposed to be the go-to for nutter butters.
It was a series called "Evacuate Earth" which explored various out-there doomsday scenarios in which nobody actually evacuated earth, btw, and it was on either Discovery or NatGeo. The mutated whale-rabies scenario was actually the most plausible one. The stupidest one involved a disgruntled employee hacking the programming of water-purifying nanobots and turning them into FLESH-EATING BLOBS OF TERROR. Like, first of all the nanobots turned the water black, which is ridiculous because nobody would drink black water. The scenario unfolded with the military sending swarms of experimental nanobots to eat the nanobots in the blobs, except the swarms were rushed into production and their programming glitched and they wouldn't return to base once they'd eaten theOH NO THE SWARMS ARE WORSE THAN THE BLOBS. Eventually the military disabled the swarms with microwaves and all was well again. At least that scenario only lasted a few weeks and didn't end with only a tiny shred of humanity surviving.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:21 pm

Penguin wrote:
Especially so because a real crisis (caused by resource depletion) would make serious conflicts more likely.

Fallout: The Prologue

At least we won't have to worry about Reapers at this rate.
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:57 am

I think the History Channel was the one who had a special where one of their doomsday scenario's was two black holes spontaneously manifesting on opposite ends of the earth and ripping it in half
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:04 pm

Mr.Doobie wrote:
I think the History Channel was the one who had a special where one of their doomsday scenario's was two black holes spontaneously manifesting on opposite ends of the earth and ripping it in half
That sounds horrifyingly awesome.   
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PostSubject: Re: World war three started.   Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:35 am

Mr.Doobie wrote:
I think the History Channel was the one who had a special where one of their doomsday scenario's was two black holes spontaneously manifesting on opposite ends of the earth and ripping it in half

At least they tweaked the Family Guy episode premised on a black hole before they plagiarized it.
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