CNN Wants to Profile White Men for Shootings

Owlish wrote:

So I had a much longer response to this typed up and the internet ate it. :/ May edit this post when I have more time.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Owlish wrote:

I quoted, and was responding to, your comment about mass shooting specifically

Cyberwulf wrote:

so like i think something else to keep in mind is that there's a difference between mental illness which produces/results in an altered state of consciousness e.g. schizophrenia, depression, psychosis etc and other condtions like psychopathy and sadism where the person appears to be wired differently (complete lack of empathy, sexually aroused by violence etc.) to "normals" and the jury's still out as to whether there's a biological/genetic cause or if it's down to nurture and whether people like that can be helped

also don't forget that some people are just angry jerks who think that nobody cares about them and their (petty) problems so why should they care about anyone else, hell shoot all those fuckers and make the world sorry they ignored me etc

yeah i noticed you didn't address this at all

remember when you asked me what i'd call someone who goes on spree killings

and i showed you where i'd said that very thing

i was hurrrrring at your lack of ability to read, dipshit

I didn't address this because your post was all over the place. What are you saying, that schizophrenics commit mass murder? That psychopaths commit mass murder? That regular old assholes commit mass murder? All three?

Jesus, you really cannot read, can you? What the fuck was unclear about what I said? I SAID

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MENTAL ILLNESS THAT CAUSES/RESULTS IN ALTERED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS

AND CONDITIONS SUCH AS PSYCHOPATHY AND SADISM WHERE THE PERSON APPEARS TO BE MISSING THE ABILITY TO EMPATHISE, OR IS AROUSED BY VIOLENCE, OR LACKS A CONSCIENCE, WHICH MAY NOT BE TREATABLE, AND WHICH CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE ANY AGREED-UPON CAUSE

EG WHAT A JURY WOULD CONSIDER THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "BAD" AND "MAD"

ALSO, ANGRY JERKS WHO HATE THE WORLD AND CARE LITTLE FOR HUMAN LIFE EXIST, ABSENT ANY MENTAL CONDITION

should i use smaller fucking words or something

Quote :

saying some people are "wired differently" calls into question the concept of mental illness as illness

APPEAR to be wired differently, is what I said. And I used it in relation to psychopaths and sadists, specifically, because there does not appear to be any biological cause (or any other cause) for why they are the way they are. Surely an expert on mental illness such as yourself can see the difference between a psychopath, who takes pleasure in fooling others and feels only "duping delight" rather than guilt or remorse when lying to someone, and a person suffering from depression, or a person suffering from schizophrenia.

Quote :

Quote :

Obviously there's a difference between domestic violence, terrorism, and mass shooting in which there is no discernible motivation

except you're the one who mentioned "tons of single incidences of violence and homicides"

btw are you admitting here that some mass shootings do have discernible motivations

you know like the guy who shot up that gym full of women because bitches wouldn't fuck him

Since you didn't address this I'm going to go ahead and assume you agree with me.

Owlish wrote:

There is just as much evidence showing that psychoactive medication harms people

HARMS is not a synonym for CAUSES PEOPLE TO GO ON MASS SHOOTING SPREES, my dear. If you let go of your agenda a little bit perhaps you might be able to keep it straight.

Quote :

HARMS is not a synonym for CAUSES PEOPLE TO GO ON MASS SHOOTING SPREES, my dear. If you let go of your agenda a little bit perhaps you might be able to keep it straight.

Yeah I am p sure no one here is disputing that antidepressants can made a person suicidal, that is like an established fact and also something that everyone who has ever taken brain drugs was told when they were prescribed?

^ srsly all these drugs work by altering your brain chemistry and no duh there will be side effects but i dispute the supposed "fact" that all or most of mass shootings happen because the shooter was taking prescribed medication

or even the "fact" that all or most people who commit mass shootings are suffering from a mental illness

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Quote :

HARMS is not a synonym for CAUSES PEOPLE TO GO ON MASS SHOOTING SPREES, my dear. If you let go of your agenda a little bit perhaps you might be able to keep it straight.

Yeah I am p sure no one here is disputing that antidepressants can made a person suicidal, that is like an established fact and also something that everyone who has ever taken brain drugs was told when they were prescribed?

Doesn't depression make you suicidal? Are you sure the pills aren't just impotent?

I have been taking Prozac for 15 years, and it made me considerably less aggressive. Even when I accidentally took a double dose, I didn't get extra aggressive (I felt like climbing the walls and was really anxious, but not homicidal). For me, Prozac is a godsend--it allows me to function. I have a severe depressive disorder, which runs in the family (my great-aunt spent most of her life in and out of mental institutions). I went off the Prozac for a while when I had no insurance and no money--and it was a disaster.

Yes, psychiatric meds can cause problems in some people--but not the majority, or even a particularly sizable minority. A person on a new drug should be monitored, as I was--when I was first taking it, I went back to the psychiatrist once a week. Once I proved stable, it became once a month, and then once every three months.

Any drug can cause nasty side effects in some people--run-of-the-mill aspirin can be deadly to some people, but that isn't a reason to ban it for everyone. If a drug has an excessively high rate of dangerous side effects, especially if the benefits are less than the risk, then that might be a reason to ban the drug. SSRIs are reasonably safe if the person using them is monitored and uses the drug properly (i.e. not grinding it up and snorting it, or taking extra doses, or not taking it when they should, or mixing it with drugs that might alter the effects).

If SSRIs were banned, then I would have a real problem, and would have to try to buy them on the street or smuggle them up from Mexico (or from Canada, though that would be a much longer trip), because going off my meds is absolutely out of the question. I will need to be on them for life, so I sincerely hope that no idiot politician gets them banned to satisfy a bunch of ignoramuses who believe a bunch of propaganda about antidepressants and have no real knowledge about them.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Doesn't depression make you suicidal? Are you sure the pills aren't just impotent?

Not necessarily. I was in various stages of depression for about a decade and I only thought about ending it all once, for about five seconds. Medication can bring that on, even if it wasn't there before.

grmblfjx wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Doesn't depression make you suicidal? Are you sure the pills aren't just impotent?

Not necessarily. I was in various stages of depression for about a decade and I only thought about ending it all once, for about five seconds. Medication can bring that on, even if it wasn't there before.

Here's another theory: Depression can make you suicidal, yes. However, it may also cause apathy at the same, and killing yourself requires being at least a little proactive. You may need to get information on how to do it properly, buy sleeping pills, tie a noose, write suicide notes, etc, and that's just too much stress for some suicidal people who suffer from severe depression. So when an individual starts taking SSRIs, it is possible that his motivation to get stuff done kicks back in before they ease other symptoms of depression (like negative emotions/thoughts). Hence, SSRIs might increase suicide risk for a few people during a short time frame after they started taking medication. Hence, SSRIs might increase suicide risk not because they are impotent, but because they actually have one of their intended effects.

^Basically this. Back when I was taking my psych classes, we went more in-depth with this, but that is a good summary. Or the tl;dr version:

depression + (suicidal ideation / no SSRIs = low energy) = no follow through
depression + (suicidal ideation / SSRIs = moderate energy) = potential suicide

Not all people who are on SSRIs have suicidal ideation. Not all people who have suicidal thoughts do more than briefly consider it.

Yes, some people have very bad reactions, such as psychotic breaks, serotonin poisoning, etc. Guess what? All medications ever will have someone have very bad reactions to them, and that is with things much less finicky than the human brain.

The same Wellbutrin that worked freaking ~*~WONDERS~*~ for me cause hallucinations and convulsions in some people. In me, I got a good night's rest for the first time in my life.

From the way I'm reading it, it looks like Owlish would luuurve to ban things because some people some of the time have an adverse reaction. Which means we should totes ban peanut butter, garlic, bees, aspirin, and-- shit. Some people have bad reactions to water, so I guess we need to ban that, too.

^ also ban every medicine ever. I have a bad reaction to Tylenol, so it must not work and only exist to line the pockets of those fat pharm cats!!

Also going to reconfirm that depression does not equal suicidal. Even during my worst depressive episode I did not want to kill myself for a second. My behavior was self destructive, but not because I wanted to die.

When I am depressed, I have no energy or will to commit suicide because 1) I figure because I'm lethargically depressed I must be too worthless and stupid to do something as simple as remove myself from the world 2) I'm tired of my suicidal ideations anyway; it's so 2005 and I want to get better; I want to live like a Normal Human Being.

Owlish wrote:

StrungOutOnLife wrote:

Speaking of psychiatric medications, he [Adam Lanza] was taking none.

The toxicology report won't be released for several months, so that claim is completely baseless.

StrungOutOnLife wrote:

Most spree shooters aren't taking anything when they go off.

Also not true, and I've already posted a link which refutes that claim.

As to the rest of your post...I'm really curious as to where you're getting information from, so please do post links when you can.

According to this review of the literature on schizophrenia and violence from 2006, ~10% of prisoners awaiting trial for murder are schizophrenic. That said, the rate of violence in schizophrenia is ~1/10,000 and most of it is committed by people who had other risk factors like, oh, already being a criminal before the first psychotic episode.

As for antidepressants and suicide in people under 18, I think they are bipolar and just haven't had their first manic episode, yet, like almost half of the subjects of Barbara Geller's failed study of nortriptyline for prepubertal depression and giving ADs to the bipolar can is a bad idea.

Oh, and I even found a story about Adam Lanza and the geneticists combing his genome.

rae wrote:

^Basically this. Back when I was taking my psych classes, we went more in-depth with this, but that is a good summary. Or the tl;dr version:

depression + (suicidal ideation / no SSRIs = low energy) = no follow through
depression + (suicidal ideation / SSRIs = moderate energy) = potential suicide

Not all people who are on SSRIs have suicidal ideation. Not all people who have suicidal thoughts do more than briefly consider it.

Yes, some people have very bad reactions, such as psychotic breaks, serotonin poisoning, etc. Guess what? All medications ever will have someone have very bad reactions to them, and that is with things much less finicky than the human brain.

The same Wellbutrin that worked freaking ~*~WONDERS~*~ for me cause hallucinations and convulsions in some people. In me, I got a good night's rest for the first time in my life.

From the way I'm reading it, it looks like Owlish would luuurve to ban things because some people some of the time have an adverse reaction. Which means we should totes ban peanut butter, garlic, bees, aspirin, and-- shit. Some people have bad reactions to water, so I guess we need to ban that, too.

I get a rash if I even touch an avocado. I guess we need to ban guacamole. Also, touching bean leaves gives me hives. I guess no one should grow beans.

Lady Anne wrote:

rae wrote:

^Basically this. Back when I was taking my psych classes, we went more in-depth with this, but that is a good summary. Or the tl;dr version:

depression + (suicidal ideation / no SSRIs = low energy) = no follow through
depression + (suicidal ideation / SSRIs = moderate energy) = potential suicide

Not all people who are on SSRIs have suicidal ideation. Not all people who have suicidal thoughts do more than briefly consider it.

Yes, some people have very bad reactions, such as psychotic breaks, serotonin poisoning, etc. Guess what? All medications ever will have someone have very bad reactions to them, and that is with things much less finicky than the human brain.

The same Wellbutrin that worked freaking ~*~WONDERS~*~ for me cause hallucinations and convulsions in some people. In me, I got a good night's rest for the first time in my life.

From the way I'm reading it, it looks like Owlish would luuurve to ban things because some people some of the time have an adverse reaction. Which means we should totes ban peanut butter, garlic, bees, aspirin, and-- shit. Some people have bad reactions to water, so I guess we need to ban that, too.

I get a rash if I even touch an avocado. I guess we need to ban guacamole. Also, touching bean leaves gives me hives. I guess no one should grow beans.

Reading your posts gives me a COLOSSAL headache because of how fucking stupid you are. We should ban you.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Reading your posts gives me a COLOSSAL headache because of how fucking stupid you are. We should ban you.

Or, you could just... y'know, block her?

Reidmar wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Reading your posts gives me a COLOSSAL headache because of how fucking stupid you are. We should ban you.

Or, you could just... y'know, block her?

Shhhhh. He's allergic to logic.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Lady Anne wrote:

rae wrote:

^Basically this. Back when I was taking my psych classes, we went more in-depth with this, but that is a good summary. Or the tl;dr version:

depression + (suicidal ideation / no SSRIs = low energy) = no follow through
depression + (suicidal ideation / SSRIs = moderate energy) = potential suicide

Not all people who are on SSRIs have suicidal ideation. Not all people who have suicidal thoughts do more than briefly consider it.

Yes, some people have very bad reactions, such as psychotic breaks, serotonin poisoning, etc. Guess what? All medications ever will have someone have very bad reactions to them, and that is with things much less finicky than the human brain.

The same Wellbutrin that worked freaking ~*~WONDERS~*~ for me cause hallucinations and convulsions in some people. In me, I got a good night's rest for the first time in my life.

From the way I'm reading it, it looks like Owlish would luuurve to ban things because some people some of the time have an adverse reaction. Which means we should totes ban peanut butter, garlic, bees, aspirin, and-- shit. Some people have bad reactions to water, so I guess we need to ban that, too.

I get a rash if I even touch an avocado. I guess we need to ban guacamole. Also, touching bean leaves gives me hives. I guess no one should grow beans.

Reading your posts gives me a COLOSSAL headache because of how fucking stupid you are. We should ban you.

Your headache came from your underdeveloped brain trying to grow enough to comprehend intelligent thought.

Would profiling white men have stopped Cho Seung Hui from shooting up Virginia Tech. No, because he was a Korean.
Would profiling white men have stopped Christopher Dorner's shooting spree? No, because he was black.
Would it have stopped Maj. Nidal Hassan from killing his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood? Hell no.
CNN just has an axe to grind. This isn't about preventing shootings at all.