Health care reform on the way?

Went to check my e-mail just now, and saw this:

House dems unveil health bill. I haven't really been following the whole healthcare thing since the ruckus seemed to have died down, and other things took precedence, so, yeah. This will be bad to some and good to others, but since it's a news story I'll just stick it here. You can move it if you want.

Quote :

Cheered by President Barack Obama,
House Democrats rolled out landmark legislation Thursday to extend
health care to tens of millions who lack coverage, impose sweeping new
restrictions on the insurance industry and create a government-run
option to compete with private insurers.

Quote :

Congressional budget experts predicted the controversial government
insurance option would probably cost consumers somewhat more than
private coverage.

I'd like to know if the experts are democrat, republican, or a mix. For now, though, I'm going to take what these budget experts say as reliable, since they're experts and I'm not, and say WHAT is the point of government-run healthcare if it costs more? I thought the whole point was to make sure everyone had it. Unless, of course, the coverage is vastly superior to anything private companies offer and therefore worth the money.

Quote :

There was no official estimate on the total cost of the legislation, which ran to 1,990 pages. The Congressional Budget Office
said the cost of additional coverage alone was slightly more than $1
trillion over a decade. But that omitted other items, including
billions for disease prevention programs.

Uh, that's a lot of money. You'd think how much this is going to cost would be something they'd want officially estimated.

Quote :

Across the Capitol, the Democratic-controlled Senate is expected to begin debate within two weeks on a bill crafted by Majority Leader Harry Reid,
D-Nev. It, too, envisions a government-run insurance option, although
states could opt out, unlike in the bill the House will vote on.

You know, I could go for a state opt-out option. That way, if someone decides the government program sucks donkeys, they can move to another state instead of struggling to find a private insurer/move to another country.

Quote :

One of the bill's major features is a new national insurance market,
in which private companies could sell policies that meet federally
mandated benefit levels, the government would offer competing coverage
and consumers could shop for the policy that best met their needs.

I...really don't know how I feel about this. I'm naturally suspicious of the motives behind this. On the other hand, this means private companies better make their plans damn good if they want customers to stick with them. Of course, the government costing more than private insurance might hamper that effect.

Someone who is more business smart enlighten me please.

Quote :

Firms would be banned from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and limited in their ability to charge higher premiums on the basis of age.

YES, THANK YOU. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] The people who need insurance the most - the sick - can finally get it. This has been needed for so long. Now we just need to make it so that vital procedures can't be denied on the basis of "it costs too much..."

Quote :

She said it would be responsible for "increasing health care costs
for families and employers across the country and significantly
disrupting the quality coverage on which millions of Americans rely
today."

Ignagni added that the presence of a government-run insurance plan
"would bankrupt hospitals, dismantle employer coverage, exacerbate
cost-shifting from Medicare and Medicaid and ultimately increase the
federal deficit."

There is actually truth in this. I don't know about the bankrupting of hospitals, but my mom (and the rest of her coworkers, except the top executives) recently had their employee health insurance price hiked up majorly and had to cut out some benefits in order to be able to afford it - and it still costs more than it did before. Everyone was pretty pissed off about it.

Unless someone can prove why this bill has nothing to do with the price hike.

Quote :

The bill's other major new source of revenue is from a proposed income tax surcharge of 5.4 percent on wealthy earners, individuals making at least $500,000 a year and couples $1 million or more.

That sounds reasonable to me (moreso than the earlier proposed $250,000 or so), but $500,000 seems like an amount a lot of successful small businesses make, which means they could suffer. I am not good with business type stuff, does someone who's into business care to enlighten me about all this?

Personally, there's a lot of good I see in here. The restrictions on insurance companies are long overdue. A real competition could force companies to make better plans to retain customers. An option for states to opt out of this whole thing would allow those opposed to the new system a way to avoid it, which should (in theory) mean everyone can be happy.

On the other hand, I'm suspicious of the government's motives behind the whole thing. They could very easily push to wipe out private insurance altogether, which would piss a lot of people off, and allow the government to dictate which medications you can and cannot receive (from what I've heard about other countries with nationalized health care, anyway; denial of cancer treatment drugs, for example. I think a news story about that was on GAFF). And then there's the mucking up of private and employee insurance, which is happening already.

So, we'll see. There's good and bad in my eyes. Discuss. I want to know more before I decide for sure if I loves it or hates it.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot, it's nearly 1am and I'm exhausted.

I think I caught all the typos. Probably not.

Quote :

On the other hand, I'm suspicious of the government's motives behind the whole thing.

Remember: The government will never actually act to help people. THERE IS ALWAYS A SECRET CONSPIRACY BEHIND EVERY MOVE.

I couldn't tell if you were being facetious on half of what you said and then I remembered who you were and stopped taking you seriously.

Edit: I like how you cringed at the cost and conveniently left out where they plan to get the money from. As in ALL of where they plan to get it.

Quote :

While Democrats touted new benefits for seniors, the bill relies on more than $400 billion in cuts from projected Medicare spending over the next decade. Much of the money would come from the part of the program in which private companies offer coverage to seniors.

...

The legislation includes other taxes, such as a 2.5 percent excise tax on the makers of medical devices, expected to raise $20 billion over a decade.

Double edit:

Quote :

She said it would be responsible for "increasing health care costs for families and employers across the country and significantly disrupting the quality coverage on which millions of Americans rely today."

I cackled.

TRIPLE EDIT:
Re: Insurance companies.

Quote :

They would be required to spend 85 percent of their income from premiums on coverage, effectively limiting their ability to advertise or pay bonuses. Additionally, the industry would be stripped of immunity from antitrust regulations covering price fixing, bid rigging and market allocation. And in a late addition to the bill, 30-year-old restrictions on the Federal Trade Commission's ability to look into the insurance industry would be erased.

ZING!

Mafiosa wrote:

Quote :

On the other hand, I'm suspicious of the government's motives behind the whole thing.

Remember: The government will never actually act to help people. THERE IS ALWAYS A SECRET CONSPIRACY BEHIND EVERY MOVE.

Hey. PM me your address so I can send you $100. I'm just trying to help you, I swear.

I want a ticket to this place, this magical place, where it's possible to take everything everyone says at face-value without wondering if they're lying, trying to manipulate you, or are actually telling you the truth. A bit of skepticism is a good thing, instead of blindly swallowing everything everyone tells you. I used to do that, when I was, like, 17, until I got screwed over enough to stop.

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As in ALL of where they plan to get it.

Quote :

While Democrats touted new benefits for seniors, the bill relies on
more than $400 billion in cuts from projected Medicare spending over
the next decade. Much of the money would come from the part of the
program in which private companies offer coverage to seniors.

Quote :

The legislation includes other taxes, such as a 2.5 percent excise tax
on the makers of medical devices, expected to raise $20 billion over a
decade.

$400 billion + $20 billion = $1 trillion. Now, I'm half-asleep here, what am I missing?

Quote :

Hey. PM me your address so I can send you $100. I'm just trying to help you, I swear.

wut

Quote :

A bit of skepticism is a good thing, instead of blindly swallowing everything everyone tells you. I used to do that, when I was, like, 17, until I got screwed over enough to stop.

Hey, you're doing that thing again.

You know, that thing where you whine about the authority figures in your life being so meeeeeeaaaaaan to you so obviously all authority figures ever are terrible people.

Quote :

$400 billion + $20 billion = $1 trillion. Now, I'm half-asleep here, what am I missing?

I was referring more to the fact that you chose only one of the three plans. Plus, you act like the government doesn't make money any other way.

Well, I'm all for it, but what do I know? Oh yeah, I've got two sons who have no health care coverage at all, and don't make enough to buy it because they have pre-existing conditions.

Next time Andrew's lung collapses, we'll just have to get out the tire pump and reinflate it ourselves here at home, cause we sure's hell can't afford to take him to the ER.

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Libertarian antics.

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Because allowing an unelected oligarchy to control access to health care is one of the founding principles of the United States, damnit!

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Because it's controversial.

Mafiosa wrote:

Quote :

Hey. PM me your address so I can send you $100. I'm just trying to help you, I swear.

wut

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

Quote :

You know, that thing where you whine about the authority figures in your life being so meeeeeeaaaaaan to you so obviously all authority figures ever are terrible people.

Actually I was talking more about everyday people, so-called "friends," and yeah, even some members of my own family used to do it. Then I stopped believing everything people told me, and became much happier for it. Ignorance isn't all that blissful, and you shouldn't immediately believe everything you're told.

Quote :

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$400 billion + $20 billion = $1 trillion. Now, I'm half-asleep here, what am I missing?

I was referring more to the fact that you chose only one of the three plans. Plus, you act like the government doesn't make money any other way.

Oh. Yeah, I left out a lot I probably should have quoted, though I figured people would , um, read the article and see it anyway. And yeah, there are other things that provide the government with money, but there are also other things that need paying for to balance that out, including the existing trillion-dollar national debt, security, welfare, social services, etc.

Even if those things didn't exist, it's generally a good idea to have an official estimate of the cost of something before you go and implement it.

Quote :

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

I figured there would be a mixed reaction to it, so I put it here, not because I thought it was horrible news. I want some clarification from people who know what they're talking about, but I don't think this is all that bad so far. You guys can move it if you want.

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Actually I was talking more about everyday people, so-called "friends," and yeah, even some members of my own family used to do it. Then I stopped believing everything people told me, and became much happier for it. Ignorance isn't all that blissful, and you shouldn't immediately believe everything you're told.

Okay. Then I choose to ignore you and continue to call you an arse based on the evidence presented to me by you.

Quote :

Yeah, I left out a lot I probably should have quoted, though I figured people would , um, read the article and see it anyway.

You seriously think people on here read articles before they comment on them?

Now who's naive and ignorant?

Mafiosa wrote:

Quote :

Actually I was talking more about everyday people, so-called "friends," and yeah, even some members of my own family used to do it. Then I stopped believing everything people told me, and became much happier for it. Ignorance isn't all that blissful, and you shouldn't immediately believe everything you're told.

Okay. Then I choose to ignore you and continue to call you an arse based on the evidence presented to me by you. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Good choice. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Theaphelia wrote:

$400 billion + $20 billion = $1 trillion. Now, I'm half-asleep here, what am I missing?

Quote :

$400 billion + $20 billion = $420 billion

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$420 billion

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420

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

theweirdkind wrote:

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Because it controversial.

But... Australia already has Medicare. Don't you guys want to be like your bestest friend Australia? All the cool kids are doing it.

Well, it's not like you're going to use it for anything cool anyway... like after a hard day of wrestling crocodiles, punching sharks and battling deadly spiders. Yes, even Aussies need to go down to the hospital after a day like that - only to ask for a bandaid though, of course.

Raine wrote:

theweirdkind wrote:

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Because it controversial.

But... Australia already has Medicare. Don't you guys want to be like your bestest friend Australia? All the cool kids are doing it.

Well, it's not like you're going to use it for anything cool anyway... like after a hard day of wrestling crocodiles, punching sharks and battling deadly spiders. Yes, even Aussies need to go down to the hospital after a day like that - only to ask for a bandaid though, of course.

I should point out that the Brits have it too: this is for when we cut ourselves on a teacup or get hit by a cricket ball.

But seriously, how is a bill that would stop poor people from dying a bad thing? America needs healthcare reform.

Trying to get conservatives to admit non-rich people have human rights is like pulling teeth, though. Except moreso because you don't get paid for it and don't get to rip their teeth out.

ZoZo wrote:

I should point out that the Brits have it too: this is for when we cut ourselves on a teacup or get hit by a cricket ball.

I heard the hospitals give you money for a taxi or bus home. That's kinda cool.

Raine wrote:

I heard the hospitals give you money for a taxi or bus home. That's kinda cool.

Not in my experience they don't. My elderly mother has had to pay for her own taxi home after visiting the hospital...and as the ambulance men in the ambulance she'd been taken in had said she wouldn't need her handbag, she was a bit stuck.

What she did in the end was to convince the taxi driver that she'd pay him when she got home and had access to funds. Being a helpless little old lady convinced him this was reasonable; had she been in a pink shell suit and/or with an Essex facelift I doubt the taxi driver would have gone for it.

ZoZo wrote:

Raine wrote:

theweirdkind wrote:

Raine wrote:

Why is this in the awful section...? I'm confused.

Because it controversial.

But... Australia already has Medicare. Don't you guys want to be like your bestest friend Australia? All the cool kids are doing it.

Well, it's not like you're going to use it for anything cool anyway... like after a hard day of wrestling crocodiles, punching sharks and battling deadly spiders. Yes, even Aussies need to go down to the hospital after a day like that - only to ask for a bandaid though, of course.

I should point out that the Brits have it too: this is for when we cut ourselves on a teacup or get hit by a cricket ball.

We Finns have it too: It's for when we get beaten up by a bear after we have wrestled with it or when we accidentally hit a tree after practising rally driving.

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But seriously, how is a bill that would stop poor people from dying a bad thing? America needs healthcare reform.

I don't like sticking my hands where they don't belong, but I have to agree here.

ETA: We get money from hospital for taxi/bus or even for your own vehicle. And if you forgot to ask for it and end up paying yourself, you can always get it all back afterwards too.

Okay, everything that has been said aside so far... And ignoring that I'm pretty sure any transition period will have it's bumps and potholes...


What on earth is so terrible about paying more taxes for basic standard of living?
Does not compute.

Lexin wrote:

Raine wrote:

I heard the hospitals give you money for a taxi or bus home. That's kinda cool.

Not in my experience they don't. My elderly mother has had to pay for her own taxi home after visiting the hospital...and as the ambulance men in the ambulance she'd been taken in had said she wouldn't need her handbag, she was a bit stuck.

What she did in the end was to convince the taxi driver that she'd pay him when she got home and had access to funds. Being a helpless little old lady convinced him this was reasonable; had she been in a pink shell suit and/or with an Essex facelift I doubt the taxi driver would have gone for it.

Oh, well, not so cool then. D:

Quote :

They would be required to spend 85 percent of their income from
premiums on coverage, effectively limiting their ability to advertise
or pay bonuses. Additionally, the industry would be stripped of
immunity from antitrust regulations covering price fixing, bid rigging
and market allocation. And in a late addition to the bill, 30-year-old
restrictions on the Federal Trade Commission's ability to look into the
insurance industry would be erased.

Oh noes!!1 Damn those dirty COMMIES!

Verandering wrote:

Okay, everything that has been said aside so far... And ignoring that I'm pretty sure any transition period will have it's bumps and potholes...


What on earth is so terrible about paying more taxes for basic standard of living?
Does not compute.

Because many Americans are selfish and don't want to pay taxes that would help other people.

KGarrett wrote:

Trying to get conservatives to admit non-rich people have human rights is like pulling teeth, though. Except moreso because you don't get paid for it and don't get to rip their teeth out.

Obviously, if they deserved the air they breathed, they'd work for it. I work and pay taxes. Therefore the world revolves around me [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]