"Obamacare" - The USA Hard Right vs. the NHS

Featuring such slogans as 'Obama Lies, Grandma Dies' and 'Democracy Not Socialism'. Where do YOU stand?

Prepare for wank...
Go!

I'm marking this thread for later, but I'll give you a sneak preview:

This new healthcare plan is fucking horrible.

Anyone care to link to a synopsis of this health care plan?

Quote :

Anyone care to link to a synopsis of this health care plan?

DEATH PANELS

I haven't seen it. To be brutally honest I'm just upset at everyone being mean about the NHS. Sure its not perfect. But its mine dammit. Plus beating it down using statistics from ten years ago is not playing fair.

Plus I was pretty sure this thread would generate some fun times.

Narwhal wrote:

This new healthcare plan is fucking horrible.

How is anymore horrible from current system that only works for people who can afford it? The current system is "I got mine, so fuck you".

Gyro's Grillz wrote:

Narwhal wrote:

This new healthcare plan is fucking horrible.

How is anymore horrible from current system that only works for people who can afford it? The current system is "I got mine, so fuck you".

How about putting the entire health insurance system out of buisness, then collapsing under its own bureaucratic weight? (I don't know if that would happen, but that would be worse than the current system.)

Frankly, I doubt the collective intelligance of Congress and the Executive branch is enough to come up with workable scheme. Add in the partisanship and pork that are the bread'n'butter of the US government, and I give it half a snowballs chance in hell of working for everyone.

"Ma'am, nobody is sorrier than MediSupraCareLife that your six year old daughter was gang-raped, but according to this Excel spreadsheet, reconstructing her vagina won't make us any money. Also, I hope you have ten thousand dollars on hand to pay for that five minute ambulance ride."

Anyone who likes the current "system" is either a corrupt millionaire, a drooling retard, or a sociopath.

The current system is responsible for the majority of bankruptcy cases in this country, and is a huge drain on the economy. The large number of uninsured people result in jacked-up premiums for people who do have it. The introduction of universal healthcare would allow the private companies to restructure their business into something that is A) not monstrous, and B) far cheaper for people who prefer it's services.

Hey, the Investor's Business Daily said that 

Quote :

"The controlling of medical costs in countries such as Britain through rationing, and the health consequences thereof, are legendary," read a recent editorial from the paper. "The stories of people dying on a waiting list or being denied altogether read like a horror script...

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

  Stephen Hawking both British and not dead

There's one thing to bring up concerns about the health care bill and its failings.

Misrepresenting facts and cooking up lies, however, is COMPLETE BS.

unskilled78 wrote:

Frankly, I doubt the collective intelligance of Congress and the Executive branch is enough to come up with workable scheme. Add in the partisanship and pork that are the bread'n'butter of the US government, and I give it half a snowballs chance in hell of working for everyone.

Th health industry is very large and has many people who are getting big, fat pay checks from it which is why so many people in the government are so reluctant to put an end to it. It's all about money and has nothing to do with the health care of the citizens. Hell, there are doctors who hate the idea of socialized health care because their pay checks will be smaller.

Here's the gist of it:

Nobody knows what's in the fucking bill. Because it's a thousand pages long, and NO ONE in the HISTORY OF EVER has managed to read a thousand pages -- it's physically impossible. But also a final version of the bill apparently hasn't been decided on yet.

This means that the Democrats are making themselves look like idiots because they can't explain what's in the bill that they wrote, and the Republicans are making shit up and running ads that say Obama wants to kill your grandmother and also put a BUREAUCRAT in charge of YOUR HEALTHCARE because apparently insurance agencies aren't bureaucracies.

Also SOCIALISMSOCIALISMSOCIALISM NONE OF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT SOCIALISM MEANS BUT IT'S A SCARY WORD THAT MAKES YOU THINK OF EVIL RUSSIANS and we're ignoring the fact that the U.S. is already a fairly socialist country and that national healthcare is not the same thing as socialized medicine.

So there you have it.

P.S. -- Personal opinion? The healthcare industry is so fucked up as is that something has to be done. I don't know what's in the bill (because, as I said, no one will come out and say what's in the bill because they haven't read it :redangry: ), but the fearmongering is ridiculous, and I think a lot of the counterarguments being put up (not all, but a lot) are textbook perfect solution fallacy.

If anybody knows somewhere we can find a clear, facts-only analysis of what's in the bill, link pls.

Gyro's Grillz wrote:

Narwhal wrote:

This new healthcare plan is fucking horrible.

How is anymore horrible from current system that only works for people who can afford it? The current system is "I got mine, so fuck you".

Not only "I got mine, so fuck you" but also the companies saying, "how can we stop covering people to cut costs AND charge our customers more?"

Lysander, after Medicare was introduced, doctors had a revelation. The elderly are such a terrible demographic, and that they required up to 5 times more financial recompense for identical tests. Fortunatly, big Brother was ready, willing, and able to foot the bill.
Imagine the drain to the federal government if that were to happen to everyone.It would make the Iraq war look like somebody putting a meal at McDonalds on their expense account. Especially since the corruption in the government and individual morality have only gone downhill in the past 44 years.

Lysander wrote:

Anyone who likes the current "system" is either a corrupt millionaire, a drooling retard, or a sociopath

Or they see the alternative as even worse.

Gyro's Grillz wrote:

Hell, there are doctors who hate the idea of socialized health care because their pay checks will be smaller.

and anyone who wants a constant return on a sizeable investment of money & a massive investment of time is an evil piece of capitalist scum :redangry:

Miss Prince wrote:

Obama wants to kill your grandmother

:obama: - I hunger for blood. The blood of little blue-haired grandmothers.

unskilled78 wrote:

Imagine the drain to the federal government if that were to happen to everyone.It would make the Iraq war look like somebody putting a meal at McDonalds on their expense account.

Not to go all math teacher on you or anything, but I demand you show your work.

Lysander wrote:

unskilled78 wrote:

Imagine the drain to the federal government if that were to happen to everyone.It would make the Iraq war look like somebody putting a meal at McDonalds on their expense account.

Not to go all math teacher on you or anything, but I demand you show your work.

I am hyperbolizing. :lolinsane:

unskilled78 wrote:

Lysander wrote:

unskilled78 wrote:

Imagine the drain to the federal government if that were to happen to everyone.It would make the Iraq war look like somebody putting a meal at McDonalds on their expense account.

Not to go all math teacher on you or anything, but I demand you show your work.

I am hyperbolizing. :lolinsane:

Yeah, that's pretty much been the entire Republican response, so far. After "death panels," I'm not going to believe another goddamn word out of the Republicans' mouths unless it's backed up by hard math.

For the benefit of the many non-American members of the board who probably haven't been bombarded with the crazy, I petition someone with a better internet connection than mine to find some of these commercials on Youtube and link them, because seriously, you guys have to see how fucking ridiculous some of these things are.

Miss Prince wrote:

Also SOCIALISMSOCIALISMSOCIALISM NONE OF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT SOCIALISM MEANS BUT IT'S A SCARY WORD THAT MAKES YOU THINK OF EVIL RUSSIANS and we're ignoring the fact that the U.S. is already a fairly socialist country and that national healthcare is not the same thing as socialized medicine.

I have an American (online) friend whose father thinks that European countries are all communist. I mean literally communist, not liberal or even socialist, but full-blown communist a la China or the Soviet Union.

Personally, I've had nothing but good experiences with the NHS. I have 3 relatives who work for them (2 nurses and a doctor) and who have few complaints. I understand that I am fairly ignorant when it comes to things like this, but I really cannot see how people can have much issue with a National health service. If you want amazing care, you can still pay for a more expensive clinic. Sure, it will increase taxes, but this is sort of an important thing...

Seule wrote:

Sure, it will increase taxes, but this is sort of an important thing...

"My taxes are paying for poor people's food health care!"

Yes, there actually people that think like this.

They're covering a lot of the ridiculous scaremongering and townhall garbage over at Shakesville, including such statements as "If you think the DMV and Post Office are run well, wait till you see Medicare run by the government."

Republicans are murderers.

Cyberwulf wrote:

They're covering a lot of the ridiculous scaremongering and townhall garbage over at Shakesville, including such statements as "If you think the DMV and Post Office are run well, wait till you see Medicare run by the government."

I dream of a healthcare system that is run as well as the DMV. The last time I had to go to the DMV, I was out and done in under 2 hours. A healthcare system that worked as well as the USPS would make me giddy with joy.(Yes, I know Medicare is a government program.)

lolwank