Arizona Congresswoman Shot; Federal Judge and 9-Year-Old Killed

Last edited by KelinciHutan on Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

There's not a lot of information on this, so far, but this NPR article appears to be updating as new facts come in. Here's what I have gathered so far:

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head at a meeting with her constituents along with at least 18 others. Five people are dead. The congresswoman was initially reported dead, but may in fact still be alive. The shooter is as yet unnamed and may or may not be in custody.

And...that's all I know so far.

This is tragic, and my heart goes out to the victims and their families, but I can't help but remember this.

... huh... And by looking at the comments on the article you link to, I'm not the only one...

But the, what do you expect when your political posturing involves gun sights and phrases like: "Don’t Retreat, Instead-RELOAD!", and "We've diagnosed the problem. Help us prescribe the solution."

The terrible thing is, if the killer(s) in this case do turn out to be Tea-Party-ers, and they do claim that they were 'taking up arms against an oppressive government' or whatnot, I really would not be surprised.

[edit]

Huh, and bloggers are already picking up on the Palin Hit-List comparison.

Link

WD40 wrote:: The terrible thing is, if the killer(s) in this case do turn out to be Tea-Party-ers, and they do claim that they were 'taking up arms against an oppressive government' or whatnot, I really would not be surprised.

That'd be entirely counter-productive since she is (or was) in the Tea Party's camp on several issues like gun control and border security.

Then again, common sense never stopped assassins before. Case in point: John Wilkes Booth.

Quote :: Huh, and bloggers are already picking up on the Palin Hit-List comparison.

Link

Sounds like a lone wolf nutjob.

EDIT: Good God, his fucking youtube channel.

Penguin wrote:: EDIT: Good God, his fucking youtube channel.

I was just editing a post about that myself.

If that YouTube account is genuine, then... Well, the guy pretty clearly wasn't in his right mind.

The videos don't mention a specific political party, but they do mention '2nd Amendment rights'.

MSNBC says Congresswoman Gifford has come through surgery and is following commands. Her surgeon says the bullet went through her brain.

PS can't wait till Sarah Palin and the Tea Partiers come out wringing their hands and crying crocodile tears about what a senseless tragedy this is.

Cyberwulf wrote:: MSNBC says Congresswoman Gifford has come through surgery and is following commands. Her surgeon says the bullet went through her brain.

THROUGH her brain?! Asdkdwgrerherhjr5neb how the hell can anyone survive that kind of thing? Holy shit WTF.

The world is getting increasingly uncomfortable to live in. I mean, with horrible shit like this happening... agh.

;_; I think I just heard on the news that a 9 year old child is amongst the dead.

MSNBC reported the same thing.

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Cyberwulf wrote:: MSNBC reported the same thing.

Yeah, the local news out here's got a live press conference from Tucson: total of 6 dead, one of whom is a 9-year old girl.

I too am decidedly surprised at surviving the whole "through the brain" thing, but I suppose it's a combination of angle of the shot, the resilience of the Congresswoman, the skill of the doctors, and pure good luck, because damn.

lemmingwriter wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:: MSNBC reported the same thing.

Yeah, the local news out here's got a live press conference from Tucson: total of 6 dead, one of whom is a 9-year old girl.

I too am decidedly surprised at surviving the whole "through the brain" thing, but I suppose it's a combination of angle of the shot, the resilience of the Congresswoman, the skill of the doctors, and pure good luck, because damn.

It's not that rare.

End of fucking point.

Wait, wait, someone shoots a Democrat so it MUST be a hate-spewing Tea Partier? Because they used a graphic of a gun site? What about everyone else who said stuff like "she's dead to me"?

Quote :: PS can't wait till Sarah Palin and the Tea Partiers come out wringing their hands and crying crocodile tears about what a senseless tragedy this is.

It is a tragedy, and I'm sure said Tea Partiers understand that. Disagreeing with someone politically doesn't mean you cackle in glee when someone takes a shot at them--and especially not when one of the victims was a child. Violent rhetoric doesn't necessarily translate into actual violence. I don't like President Obama, but that doesn't mean I would dance on his grave if he were murdered.

A lunatic took a shot at a member of the United States Congress, and he slaughtered six people in the process. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law--and hopefully locked up somewhere where he can't hurt anyone, ever again.

Tungsten Monk wrote:: Wait, wait, someone shoots a Democrat so it MUST be a hate-spewing Tea Partier? Because they used a graphic of a gun site? What about everyone else who said stuff like "she's dead to me"?

The author of that diary has apologized for their incendiary rhetoric, and recanted their statements.

Thread I
Thread II
Thread III

Try not getting your rumors from Free Republic.

Try again.

Arizona Congresswoman Shot; Federal Judge and 9-Year-Old Killed 724940

It was an example, Ozymandias.

Do you guys really, really believe that by placing a target image on Giffords' district, Sarah Palin somehow incited a random lunatic to go out and try to murder the congresswoman? Because honestly, people use rhetoric and symbolism like that all the time. "Target" this, "take a shot at" that. If that kind of flimsy justification was enough to get certain minds to attempt murder, it would've happened long before now. Besides, wouldn't a nut like that have at least tried to go after someone who was, I don't know, a little less in line with certain right-wing beliefs?

This isn't exactly "Will nobody rid me of this troublesome priest"-level stuff, guys.

ETA: And the author of the diary apologized. So if everyone else who ever used violent rhetoric like this apologizes, will that absolve them of any possible responsibility too?

Tungsten Monk wrote:: Violent rhetoric doesn't necessarily translate into actual violence.

COURSE it doesn't! It's aaaaaaall a big coincidence that violent, eliminationist rhetoric tends to be employed heavily by the right wing and that "lunatics" who "snap" and target political figures tend to share some of those right wing views.

I'll bet you think the shooting of George Tiller had nothing whatsoever to do with forced pregnancy advocates going on and on about how he was an evil baby-murderer, too.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Tungsten Monk wrote:: Violent rhetoric doesn't necessarily translate into actual violence.

COURSE it doesn't! It's aaaaaaall a big coincidence that violent, eliminationist rhetoric tends to be employed heavily by the right wing and that "lunatics" who "snap" and target political figures tend to share some of those right wing views.

I'll bet you think the shooting of George Tiller had nothing whatsoever to do with forced pregnancy advocates going on and on about how he was an evil baby-murderer, too.

We're not talking about George Tiller. We're talking about Jared Loughner. The same Jared Loughner whose YouTube profile list includes his favorite books, like "Mein Kampf" and "The Communist Manifesto," not to mention a whole load of crazy contained in five videos.

He was talking about mind control via currency. It sure sounds like that had a lot more hold on him than one post on a website somewhere.

Oh, and Cy . . . yeah, sure, it's employed exclusively by the right wing. So all those folks at antiwar rallies burning Bush in effigy were just imitating the right-wingers, huh?

Tungsten Monk wrote:: yeah, sure, it's employed exclusively by the right wing. So all those folks at antiwar rallies burning Bush in effigy were just imitating the right-wingers, huh?

Oh, please tell me where the left-wing talk radio hosts spewing out rants about dragging congressmen from their houses and beating them to bloody pulps are. Please tell me what the left wing equivalent of Fox News is. Face the facts, you moron, your side pandered to the fucking nutjobs and now they can't get rid of them.

PS answer the question about George Tiller.

Tungsten Monk wrote:: It was an example, Ozymandias.

Do you guys really, really believe that by placing a target image on Giffords' district, Sarah Palin somehow incited a random lunatic to go out and try to murder the congresswoman? Because honestly, people use rhetoric and symbolism like that all the time. "Target" this, "take a shot at" that. If that kind of flimsy justification was enough to get certain minds to attempt murder, it would've happened long before now. Besides, wouldn't a nut like that have at least tried to go after someone who was, I don't know, a little less in line with certain right-wing beliefs?

This isn't exactly "Will nobody rid me of this troublesome priest"-level stuff, guys.

ETA: And the author of the diary apologized. So if everyone else who ever used violent rhetoric like this apologizes, will that absolve them of any possible responsibility too?

You're oversimplifying. The SarahPAC graphic is only a part of a whole.

Sharron Angle called for "second amendment remedies" in Nevada.
Michele Bachmann called for her constituents to be "armed and dangerous".
Glenn Beck.
Sean Hannity.
Jesse Kelly.

You're trying to make a false equivalency between violent rhetoric on the right and left. Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan were the last two conservative , not Republican, public figures who were the target of an assassination attempt, the latter being the victim of Hinckley's desire to impress Jodie Foster. The rest? Not so much.

Huey Long.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Abraham Lincoln.
Anton Cermak.
JFK.
Bobby Kennedy.
Medgar Evars.
Harvey Milk.
ETA: Alan Berg.

Violence is a tool of the regressive fraction of the Republican party, it has been since the 1850s. Don't attempt to say that the liberal wing of the Democratic party resorts to violence when things don't go their way at the ballot box. You're wrong.

The diarist apologized and recanted his statements; meaning s/he no longer stands by them. Does it absolve them from responsibility, were it actually their words that incited Jared Lee Loughner to shoot Congresswoman Giffords? No. But, guess what, it wasn't. Jared Lee Loughner was most likely mentally ill and incited to violence by the tea party's violent rhetoric.

Cyberwulf wrote:: Oh, please tell me where the left-wing talk radio hosts spewing out rants about dragging congressmen from their houses and beating them to bloody pulps are. Please tell me what the left wing equivalent of Fox News is. Face the facts, you moron, your side have courted the fucking nutjobs and now they can't get rid of them.

I love you.

Cy: I'll answer the question about Tiller when you answer the question about the effigy-burnings. And throw in that Communist Manifesto thing for good measure, if you have the time. Show me the right-wing nutjob who has that on his nightstand.

Oz: The right does not, and never has, had a monopoly on violent rhetoric. Here's one of my favorite examples. And where's the proof that Loughner had any contact with the Tea Party or any of its people? Again, Communist Manifesto. Frankly, he sounds like a lunatic, and it irritates the hell out of me that the first kneejerk reaction of a lot of people was not "six people were killed, more injured" but "how can we pin this on the Tea Party"?

Tungsten Monk wrote:: Cy: I'll answer the question about Tiller when you answer the question about the effigy-burnings. And throw in that Communist Manifesto thing for good measure, if you have the time. Show me the right-wing nutjob who has that on his nightstand.

Oz: The right does not, and never has, had a monopoly on violent rhetoric. Here's one of my favorite examples. And where's the proof that Loughner had any contact with the Tea Party or any of its people? Again, Communist Manifesto. Frankly, he sounds like a lunatic, and it irritates the hell out of me that the first kneejerk reaction of a lot of people was not "six people were killed, more injured" but "how can we pin this on the Tea Party"?

Pull the wool over your eyes if it helps you sleep at night.

Tungsten Monk wrote:: Cy: I'll answer the question about Tiller NEVER NEVER NEVER DODGE DODGE

Quote :: Oz: The right does not, and never has, had a monopoly on violent rhetoric.

Where is the left-wing media channel that gives the left-wing equivalents of Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck airtime? Where are the left-wing talk radio hosts who spew vitriol onto the airwaves about murdering pro-lifers and conservative Christians? Where are they? What left-wing politician would use the kind of totally harmless graphic Sarah Palin used, with fucking targets over the locations of "troublesome" Repubs?

The first reaction WAS "oh God six people were killed", if you'd bothered to read the thread. And if you bothered to pull your head out of your ass, you'd see that violence by nutjobs who subscribe to at least some Republican philosophies (or philosophies that the Republicans have seen fit to adopt) is on the rise. BY PURE COINCIDENCE OF COURSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THOSE WHO OPPOSE THEM

ps it's against the law to threaten to kill the President yes? Take it up with the cops if they didn't arrest private citizens for doing it. Also, people at anti-war rallies =/= celebrity pundits and talk show hosts who have the legitimacy of the old media behind them.

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Excerpt from an article on Yahoo News:

Quote :: The shooting comes amid a highly charged political environment that has seen several dangerous threats against lawmakers but nothing that reached the point of actual violence.

A San Francisco man upset with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's support of health care reform pleaded guilty to threatening the Democratic congresswoman and her family, calling her directly on March 25 and threatening to destroy her Northern California home if she voted for health care reform.

In July, a California man known for his anger over left-leaning politics engaged in a shootout with highway patrol officers after planning an attack on the ACLU and another nonprofit group. The man said he wanted to "start a revolution" by killing people at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation.

During the his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman. "I don't know this person, we cannot find any records that he was associated with the campaign in any way. I just don't see the connection.

"Arizona is a state where people are firearms owners — this was just a deranged individual," Ellinwood said.

I think Mr. Ellinwood may be a deranged individual as well. As was Mr. Kelly for pulling such a boneheaded stunt in a state that's already full of people who hate anyone whose ancestors didn't come over on the May flower.

There are a lot of disaffected people out there who spend way too much time listening to Faux News and Bill O'Reilly. They're honestly convinced that President Obama is a Nazi/Socialist/space alien/definitely not an American citizen (take your pick) who's trying to bring about the downfall of the United States/set up a Socialist Government/put their Grandma in a Death Camp. THEY BELIEVE THIS 100%. They are not well people, and the last thing they need is political idiots pandering to their fears in the hopes of scoring enough points to get elected.

We're talking about people's lives here. When it gets to the point where Democratic candidates are being told they need to beef up their security because there are apparently long lines of people out there just waiting for an excuse to kill them, we have come to a very sad pass indeed.

And Tungsten, the whole 'George Bush burned in effigy' thing is no longer cromnulant. Back then, the Republicans were in control, and I don't recall anyone going around randomly killling (or trying to kill) Republican politicians because they didn't agree with their politics (if it occurred, please feel free to refresh my memory) I do, however, remember the wholesale ridicule of those who didn't agree with the War in Iran, in which people were basically accused of being anti-American and siding with the Taliban.

Edited to add: I didn't see Cy's post before I sent this. She stated what I'm trying to say much better than I did.

And here is a video of Gabrielle Giffords reacting to an attack on her office which was believed to be connected to her health care reform vote.

She engages with a lot of the things that have been brought up in this thread.

Visit msnbc.com for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Visit msnbc.com for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

ETA: Some good news.

No true Scotsman.

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