Doctor Treating Pregnant Women With Experimental Drug To Prevent Lesbianism

Just thought I'd bump this thread with this.

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Treatment to "normalise" functional genitalia is more controversial, but I think most would approve of it, again absent any side effects. Some Intersexed people may differ on that, just the way many hearing-impaired people might not see congenital deafness as an undesirable defect, but a mere variation, a difference. I think though that this is a distinctly minority view, and that informed parental choice should have a role here, rather than a directive from those not personally involved. There is an argument against such therapy, and even if I personally think it's weak, I see no great harm in not having treatment should Society be moderately sane about it.

Treatment to prevent Transsexuality, again if it had no side effects, is
something I would consider even more strongly justified though. Even if
Society was sane. Because there could be a substantial mismatch between
body-image and somatic form, which can cause immense suffering.

Treatment to make girls bidable, demure, maternal, and above all straight
on the other hand... now we're getting into ethically dubious territory. We have to look at the rights of the parent. Are they unfettered? Do we have a right to prevent a parent from having a gay child? Or educating them to be racist, bigoted, even sadistic and sociopathic?

I don't think the rights of a parent should be unfettered. But I also see a distinction between the two cases above.

In the second, there is harm not (just) to the child, but to those who
they will interact with in their lives. In the first, as medical technology improves and society hopefully gets saner, they will have the same reproductive abilities regardless of whether gay or straight. Choosing sexual orientation for a child is no worse - and no better - than choosing eye colour, or handedness.

Further down it has a laundry list of what side-effects this drug, which is being presented by Maria New as "safe for mothers and children", actually has:

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Dexamethasone Side Effects - for the Professional:
The following adverse reactions have been reported with Dexamethasone or other corticosteroids:

Cardiovascular
Bradycardia, cardiac arrest, cardiac arrhythmias, cardiac enlargement, circulatory collapse, congestive heart failure, fat embolism, hypertension, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy in premature infants, myocardial rupture following recent myocardial infarction, edema, pulmonary edema, syncope, tachycardia, thromboembolism, thrombophlebitis, vasculitis.

Dermatologic
Acne, allergic dermatitis, dry scaly skin, ecchymoses and petechiae, erythema, impaired wound healing, increased sweating, rash, striae,
suppression of reactions to skin tests, thin fragile skin, thinning scalp hair, urticaria.

Endocrine
Decreased carbohydrate and glucose tolerance, development of cushingoid state, hyperglycemia, glycosuria, hirsutism, hypertrichosis, increased
requirements for insulin or oral hypoglycemic agents in diabetes,
manifestations of latent diabetes mellitus, menstrual irregularities,
secondary adrenocortical and pituitary unresponsiveness (particularly
in times of stress, as in trauma, surgery, or illness), suppression of growth in pediatric patients.

Fluid and Electrolyte Disturbances
Congestive heart failure in susceptible patients, fluid retention, hypokalemic alkalosis, potassium loss, sodium retention.

Gastrointestinal
Abdominal distention, elevation in serum liver enzyme levels (usually reversible upon discontinuation), hepatomegaly, increased appetite, nausea, pancreatitis, peptic ulcer with possible perforation and hemorrhage, perforation of the small and large intestine (particularly in patients with inflammatory bowel disease), ulcerative esophagitis.

Metabolic
Negative nitrogen balance due to protein catabolism.

Musculoskeletal
Aseptic necrosis of femoral and humeral heads, loss of muscle mass, muscle weakness, osteoporosis, pathologic fracture of long bones, steroid
myopathy, tendon rupture, vertebral compression fractures.

Neurological/Psychiatric
Convulsions, depression, emotional instability, euphoria, headache, increased intracranial pressure with papilledema (pseudotumor cerebri) usually following discontinuation of treatment, insomnia, mood swings, neuritis, neuropathy, paresthesia, personality changes, psychic disorders, vertigo.

Nice, huh?

I have to say that I don't entirely agree with the comments by Zoe about treatments to 'normalize' external genitals or treatments to prevent transsexuality, but since she's transgendered and I'm not, I'm interested to see what other people who are trans think about this.

Malganis wrote:

I have to say that I don't entirely agree with the comments by Zoe about treatments to 'normalize' external genitals or treatments to prevent transsexuality, but since she's transgendered and I'm not, I'm interested to see what other people who are trans think about this.

Her internalized transphobia only harms other transpeople the same way that self-proclaimed "cured" homosexuals harm other gays.

Nihilist wrote:

But if they pick up on this in the womb and figure out that the kid is likely to grow up to be upset with their body to the point of depression, suicide attempts, drug use, dangerous behavior to prove something, etc etc, then I think they should fix it by, you know, making me born a boy instead. Or a girl in someone else's case. There'd be no pain that way. None of this shit later in life to deal with when it gets much more critical and makes a person unstable. Could save a life that way and prevent a world full of hurt- not only from society but the constant pain over not being born that way in the first place. None of that horrorshow.

The thing is self-hatred can happen to anyone- even those who mainstraim society deems to be "normal". It's society that is the problem, not your mind, nor your body. People responed to what other people project onto them. I was never reminded constantly growing up that being gay, biracial, or transgendered was a bad thing by my family. I was never put down for not living up to some invisible and unreasonable expectation that my parents put onto me. When I started getting into wearing boy's clothing when I was a tween, my mother went along with it. She even seemed very confused when I wanted to wear girls clothing.

I'm reasonably comfrotable in my own body (save for birthing which freaks me the hell out me), but I would be even more comfortable being born male and possessing an 8inch long penis. I could be myself, with out being told to act more "lady-like". I want to sit with my leg cocked open, I want a bromance, I want to do guy things. I'm not the most masculine guy in the world, but I'm a man never-the-less.

Trying to prevent hard-ship for falling on your children is something that every parent would do, but hard-ship and tragedy will always happened. If it's not because your child is gay/transgendered it maybe because they are fat, they are a minority, they are female, they have red hair, they speak with an accent, they aren't Christian, they are disabled, or because they are just different. No one is prefect, no one will have a prefect life, nor will they be 100% happy about who they are. If there was a drug to make everyone cisgendered, mono-racial, heterosexual, and they share the same beliefs, what would be the point to living?

Quote :

Variety of the human experience and such. Give everyone the same experience and thought patterns, then wouldn't life be boring?

Anyone else hear an echo?

Nihilist wrote:

I guess I worded it badly though- while I can wrap my head around Zoe's thinking, I don't agree with it. Probably because of years of internalized transphobia brought on by growing up to believe all the bad things our parents would say and do to us is why I can relate. But I'm not saying Zoe's right.

Yeah, I really hate it when people take their expriences and project them onto other people. Which is what Zoe is doing. I'm a person who doesn't like to being told how I should feel. I've had internalized racism and homophobia projected on me one too many times, so it makes me hot when someone says "I'm -blink- and feel a certain way about -blink- so everyone else who is -blink- whould be better if they weren't -blink-."

Treatment to cure transsexuality? Rofl.


Here's the thing.
Gender is social, its parameters entirely constructed within a culture/society, and most often times you can't even get a consistent rule book within the culture/society on defining gender. There's wildly different cues people latch on to when decided what gender to consider another.

You can't physically cure what ain't physically broke.

Our brains may develop in a way typical of what we may term boy or girl, because surprise, surprise, the appearance of our genitals doesn't actually have much to do with us besides... Being the appearance of our genitals.

Also, there's wildly different interpretations on what's masculine and feminine.
Point is, this shit ain't biologically innate. The definitions, that is.

So what the fuck are people even trying to do?
I don't even know.


The only reason gender is in place is because it's a class system, whereby penis wielders sit on top of the pyramid and exude the behaviourisms that shows others where they sit. Vagina bearers are subjected underneath, because you can't have a class system without someone to be superior over. And we'd like to retain this natural classism, so we scorn and ridicule and remove the power from anyone daring to trangress these supposedly natural lines. We're supposed to believe we can't help being naturally superior/inferior.

So basically, gender is ridiculous.
Let people do what they want with their bodies. If someone has a problem with their set of genitals, whatever the reason, let them do what the hell they want with them. Forfeiting their personhood for their reproductive purpose is just bullshit. We're not livestock. I don't give a flying fig for taking part in the creation of another human being.

I'm not into this "fixing" intersex babies because I actually draw a malicious delight from the fact that nature is not actually cut and dry, black and white, left and right, penis and vagina. It's a blatant statement about the inanity of gender on gender defenders' own terms- considering how, in actuality, the way doctors determine a child's gender is by how actively the genitals can penetrate. Most intersex infants are doctored into female because if it can't fill up with blood and be inserted, it's obviously useless.

Shit's not even about chromosomes.
hahahahahahaha.


My personal experience, well. I've been in the middle of everything my whole life, gender and otherwise. I suppose that gives me a pretty clear view of the boundaries.

Verandering wrote:

Treatment to cure transsexuality? Rofl.


Here's the thing.
Gender is social, its parameters entirely constructed within a culture/society, and most often times you can't even get a consistent rule book within the culture/society on defining gender. There's wildly different cues people latch on to when decided what gender to consider another.

You can't physically cure what ain't physically broke.

I hate when people can't accept the difference between sex and gender. My ex boyfriend's mother and I almost got into a fight over this because she insists on referring to transgender people by the sex they were born as. Ex: FTM are she's and MTF are he's. No matter how they may feel about that classification. It's just so close minded. It's the same with peole who insist that a short haired tomboy woman MUST be a lesbian or at very least bisexual or that a long haired feminine man must be gay, rarely is it suggested that they are bisexual.

SisterGrimm wrote:

Verandering wrote:

Treatment to cure transsexuality? Rofl.


Here's the thing.
Gender is social, its parameters entirely constructed within a culture/society, and most often times you can't even get a consistent rule book within the culture/society on defining gender. There's wildly different cues people latch on to when decided what gender to consider another.

You can't physically cure what ain't physically broke.

I hate when people can't accept the difference between sex and gender. My ex boyfriend's mother and I almost got into a fight over this because she insists on referring to transgender people by the sex they were born as. Ex: FTM are she's and MTF are he's. No matter how they may feel about that classification. It's just so close minded. It's the same with peole who insist that a short haired tomboy woman MUST be a lesbian or at very least bisexual or that a long haired feminine man must be gay, rarely is it suggested that they are bisexual.

There's a long-haired guy where I work who is definitely heterosexual. He flirts with every woman except the boss. I've also known several short-haired, tomboy women who were definitely interested in men.

Lady Anne wrote:

I've also known several short-haired, tomboy women who were definitely interested in men.

My ears were ringing... here, short-haired, tomboy woman who likes men so much that if she was a male she (he) would be a short-haired gay guy.

Not to sound pedantic or anything, but for the purposes of this discussion, define "tomboy."

myeerah wrote:

Not to sound pedantic or anything, but for the purposes of this discussion, define "tomboy."

A term generally applied to young girls who haven't hit puberty yet who show more interest in male pursuits than female. My mother used to despair at me ever amounting to anything in life, as I was as likely to play with dolls as I was to build forts and climb trees. Tomboys generally don't fit the imagine of the sweet little feminine girl playing house with her dollies and being their mama.

It's actually kind of an outmoded term, since science long ago discovered that girls who prefer to dress like guys and wear there hair short are no less likely to turn out lesbian than very feminine girls. I was a disaster as a small girl (it's a wonder I never broke any bones, because I'd do almost anything anyone dared me to), and while I definitely remember feeling really cheated when I started my period (because I knew guys didn't have to go through this, and it was likely going to cut back on some of my escapades), I don't recall ever being attracted to anyone but guys. On the other hand, I was a little late into the male/female relationship market, as I don't recall having any real sexual interest in guys (or anyone else) until I was in ninth grade. Before that, it just struck me as being silly that everyone got so tied up in knots over whether this or that person liked them.

In re nothing, RB, but you do realize that:

Rabid Badger wrote:

My mother used to despair at me ever amounting to anything in life

Is a hanging curveball over the heard of the plate for Mikey?

gaijinguy wrote:

In re nothing, RB, but you do realize that:

Rabid Badger wrote:

My mother used to despair at me ever amounting to anything in life

Is a hanging curveball over the heard of the plate for Mikey?

\

S'okay, I've had him blocked for going on 3-4 months. Makes life a lot less stress inducing.

I'm with Rabid Badger. I loved playing games with toys, but they were more likely to be boy's toys, or stories that boys would act out. I certainly never played 'tea party', or entertained myself with Barbie dolls.

I liked to play both boys' and girls' games. I would take my favorite rag doll and go climb rocks with it in tow.

For the record, a drug that could prevent my baby from being trans w/o negative side effects? I would seriously consider it. Not because I want there to be less trans people in the world, but because being trans sounds like it kind of sucks and I would rather my kid not go through that. In the best case scenario your kid gets out w/o emotional trauma and you are out a shit-ton of cash, more likely your kid is going to have to go through a lot of suck and discrimination and more suck.

Likewise, if I lived in some shitty homophobic backwater, and I could not leave for whatever reason, I might consider a homosexuality preventative measure. I would not find any side-effect risk acceptable for something like that though. Furthermore, in the place and time I live at right now I would never consider such a thing necessary or even beneficial.

The Unoriginal wrote:

Lady Anne wrote:

I've also known several short-haired, tomboy women who were definitely interested in men.

My ears were ringing... here, short-haired, tomboy woman who likes men so much that if she was a male she (he) would be a short-haired gay guy.

Rabid Badger wrote:

A term generally applied to young girls who haven't hit puberty

This is exactly why I asked. There's no consistent definition here, which makes discussion difficult in terms what what we're talking about.

myeerah wrote:

The Unoriginal wrote:

Lady Anne wrote:

I've also known several short-haired, tomboy women who were definitely interested in men.

My ears were ringing... here, short-haired, tomboy woman who likes men so much that if she was a male she (he) would be a short-haired gay guy.

Rabid Badger wrote:

A term generally applied to young girls who haven't hit puberty

This is exactly why I asked. There's no consistent definition here, which makes discussion difficult in terms what what we're talking about.

Myeerah, there's no consistent definition for any gender label.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

For the record, a drug that could prevent my baby from being trans w/o negative side effects? I would seriously consider it.

Problem is, without getting into the child's head you can't tell if there aren't any negative side effects. To be a kid who felt gender dysphoria strongly, but not intensely enough to admit it to others, would suck so much.

saeku wrote:

Problem is, without getting into the child's head you can't tell if there aren't any negative side effects. To be a kid who felt gender dysphoria strongly, but not intensely enough to admit it to others, would suck so much.

Or not enough for anyone to believe and respect them.

Children can get through a lot if they receive love and support at home with their parent(s). Kids already have so many ridiculous expectations they need to fit for the adults around them, why give them more?

Verandering wrote:

myeerah wrote:

The Unoriginal wrote:

Lady Anne wrote:

I've also known several short-haired, tomboy women who were definitely interested in men.

My ears were ringing... here, short-haired, tomboy woman who likes men so much that if she was a male she (he) would be a short-haired gay guy.

Rabid Badger wrote:

A term generally applied to young girls who haven't hit puberty

This is exactly why I asked. There's no consistent definition here, which makes discussion difficult in terms what what we're talking about.

Myeerah, there's no consistent definition for any gender label.

Very true. Which only reiterates how stupid the concept is in the first place.

On a related topic, my husband bought a ball for my daughter the other day, letting her pick the one she wanted. It's a light green spongy ball, circa 3" in diameter.

I've had six people so far, her godmother and some random old ladies met at the park/post office/playground, going "Ohh what a cute little girl you are. Ohhh you're showing me your ball. Is that your ball? But it's not a girls' ball, it's for boys, that one"

Why? Because there's a pic of the Gormites screen-printed on it.

Now someone please elucidate why the fuck it is so very important to inform a girl aged 2y8m, who doesn't have the slightest idea of who or what Gormites are, that her ball is 'inappropriate' for her. Because I was seething by the sixth time and if it happens again there might be a thread in Godawful News titled "Old codger slaughtered in the park over a Gormites ball."
It's not a replica machine gun, which I'd buy her if she wanted it, anyway (she plays a "Hands up everyone" routine that she picked up from the Dukes of Hazzard), it's A BALL WITH WHICH SHE'D PLAY IN THE SAME IDENTICAL WAY IF THERE WAS A FUCKING BARBIE DOLL ON IT, SO WHAT GETS YOUR BAGGY PANTIES IN SUCH A BUNCH, YOU MUMMIFIED CRO-MAGNON TURDS?

[/rant]

I like you.

The Unoriginal wrote:

On a related topic, my husband bought a ball for my daughter the other day, letting her pick the one she wanted. It's a light green spongy ball, circa 3" in diameter.

I've had six people so far, her godmother and some random old ladies met at the park/post office/playground, going "Ohh what a cute little girl you are. Ohhh you're showing me your ball. Is that your ball? But it's not a girls' ball, it's for boys, that one"

Why? Because there's a pic of the Gormites screen-printed on it.

Now someone please elucidate why the fuck it is so very important to inform a girl aged 2y8m, who doesn't have the slightest idea of who or what Gormites are, that her ball is 'inappropriate' for her. Because I was seething by the sixth time and if it happens again there might be a thread in Godawful News titled "Old codger slaughtered in the park over a Gormites ball."
It's not a replica machine gun, which I'd buy her if she wanted it, anyway (she plays a "Hands up everyone" routine that she picked up from the Dukes of Hazzard), it's A BALL WITH WHICH SHE'D PLAY IN THE SAME IDENTICAL WAY IF THERE WAS A FUCKING BARBIE DOLL ON IT, SO WHAT GETS YOUR BAGGY PANTIES IN SUCH A BUNCH, YOU MUMMIFIED CRO-MAGNON TURDS?

[/rant]

How can a ball be meant for one gender or the other? It's a ball. It's a child's toy.

You did tell her why you were seething, right? She might pick up on 'green ball' + 'strangers saying things' = 'mummy angry', but not get that it's the other people's behaviour making you angry.

Thank you for the thought - I may have used the wrong word. Is "seething" = "being forcibly polite with sb. in spite of the urge to pull out the #7 cluebat"?