Israel Attacks Unarmed Humanitarian Ship in International Waters.

Israel's blockade line is at 20 nautical miles out from Gaza. These vessels were anywhere from 80 to 100 nautical miles out.

So, in about twenty-four hours Israel has pretty much shot its international reputation in the foot. People in Turkey are shouting "Death to Israel", French people have been repelled by tear gas, Dutch people are protesting in front of the Israeli embassy, six thousand Swedes gathered in Sergelstorg, Lebanon is pissed, and the American congress is working on a $3.2 million military aid package for Israel.

Oh, Scandinavia.

Quote :

6,000 protesters crowding the central Sergelstorg, according to a police estimate, waving Palestinian flags and shouting "Boycott Israel!" and "Israel to The Hague!", and waving banners saying "There will be more ships to Gaza.".

(Emphasis mine). With all the information that's come out supporting the claim that this was more an act of piracy than protection, Israel may have to face The Hague. It's doubtful, but a possibility, especially since reports are coming out now that say the relief workers were waving white flags and willing to surrender.


If Turkey follows through on its threat to send the next relief envoys backed by their Navy, then Israel is pretty much fucked. They don't have much in the way of a navy.

While the White House expresses concern, I don't know of any official statement made yet.

Quote :

"The United States deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy."

Link.

Edited to add: Turkey has no intention of invoking Article V of the NATO charter at this point. If Turkey invokes Article V, it will be interesting to see how the US government responds.

The Unoriginal wrote:

During the Cuban missile crisis, the blockade around Cuba started at 800 miles and was then reduced to 500 miles. Several ships were stopped and inspected by US Navy personnel, so there has to be some international regulation of the matter. Last year the Italian financial police boarded a ship with a ton of cocaine on board, in the middle of the Atlantic. In 1966 coast guard boats gave chase and even fired at a tanker ship which would not stop for inspection, and this over 'mere' cigarette smuggling.

A little more reading indicates that a ship may be boarded by any state's military if:

1) It's suspected to be engaged in piracy, transporting slaves, or illegal broadcasting
2) Suspected of any other crime, so long as the nation that the ship is "flagged" under grants consent

Ah, now Israel is tear gassing and throwing projectiles at non-violent protesters. Careful, sad pictures abound. :/

Quote :

21-year old Emily Henochowicz was hit in the face with a tear gas projectile fired directly at her by an Israeli soldier during the demonstration at Qalandiya checkpoint today. Israeli occupation forces fired volleys of tear gas at unarmed Palestinian and international protesters, causing mass panic amongst the demonstrators and those queuing at the largest checkpoint separating the West Bank and Israel.

Let me get this straight. Palestinian terrorists blow up a bunch of Israeli civilians, and no one really bats an eyelash. Israel kills weapon smugglers, and people lose their shit.

Have I got this?

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Let me get this straight. Palestinian terrorists blow up a bunch of Israeli civilians, and no one really bats an eyelash. Israel kills weapon smugglers, and people lose their shit.

Have I got this?

No.

1) The IDF boarded the ship in international waters without receiving consent from the Turkish government (the lead ship was Turkish), a clear violation of International Law. Israel has no sovereign rights outside of their territorial waters absent clear provocation or to stop vessels engaged in piracy, slave trading, or illegal broadcast. Even if they were weapons smugglers, the Israeli government would need permission from Turkey (an Israeli ally) to board.

2) The vessels were inspected by Turkish customs officials before they left port. Turkey, who has been a staunch ally of Israel, stated emphatically that there were no weapons aboard and that all passengers and cargo were searched before the ships embarked.

From looking at the articles, I'm getting the impression that the firearms used by the passengers of the ship were taken from Israeli soldiers, rather than smuggled aboard the ship in the first place. The other things used to fight with sound like items that one might reasonably expect to be on a ship. What am I missing here?

Lady Anne wrote:

From looking at the articles, I'm getting the impression that the firearms used by the passengers of the ship were taken from Israeli soldiers, rather than smuggled aboard the ship in the first place. The other things used to fight with sound like items that one might reasonably expect to be on a ship. What am I missing here?

I don't know? Israel preemptively struck a relief flotilla headed for the Gaza Strip under the guise of "terrorist ties" in international waters, where they have no legal authority. Israel alleged that the relief flotilla was smuggling arms to the Palestinian resistance, and that's looking more and more like a blatant lie as more information comes out. At one point, I believe the Israeli PM was saying that the aid workers were armed with paint ball guns. I shit you not. Basically, it looks like Israel was trying to prevent aid from getting to the Palestines in Gaza.

The UN Security Council meeting earlier today(?) concluded. Forbes is reporting this:

Quote :

The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting Monday on Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip, with the Palestinians and Arab nations demanding condemnation and an independent investigation.

The Palestinians and Arabs, backed by a number of council members including Turkey, also called for Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza, immediately release the ships and humanitarian activists, and allow them to deliver their goods.

Linky.

Edited to add that I found this: Why Did Israel Attack the Gaza Flotilla?

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Let me get this straight. Palestinian terrorists blow up a bunch of Israeli civilians, and no one really bats an eyelash. Israel kills weapon smugglers, and people lose their shit.

Have I got this?

You missed that Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a concentration camp and is trying to completely eradicate any Palestinians in the area while holding onto illegally seized land.

The "terrorism" from Palestinians is the flailing of a dying man while he's being choked to death. Every so often one of his hands slaps his attacker, Israel, lightly in the face, which just enrages him and makes him choke Palestine harder.

but what about the jews

wait shit wrong thread, as you were

SirDixonDongs wrote:

but what about the jews

And the protesters in Rome chose to gather with flags and chants of "murderers, fascist"... in front of the Israeli embassy, perhaps?
Nah. Outside the old ghetto, because it's really the same, you see.

Okay, Fuck!

I was trying to give Israel the benefit of doubt, but, you know what? Fuck you.

FUCK. YOU.

I had a small argument with my (rather antisemitic) SO over this, but I'm just gonna call him tomorrow to tell him how right he was about this one.

Seriously, Israel? Attacking non-violent protesters? Shit.

You know that song? The one that goes "Who would've thought that David was Goliath?" Yes.

TheHermit wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Let me get this straight. Palestinian terrorists blow up a bunch of Israeli civilians, and no one really bats an eyelash. Israel kills weapon smugglers, and people lose their shit.

Have I got this?

You missed that Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a concentration camp and is trying to completely eradicate any Palestinians in the area while holding onto illegally seized land.

The "terrorism" from Palestinians is the flailing of a dying man while he's being choked to death. Every so often one of his hands slaps his attacker, Israel, lightly in the face, which just enrages him and makes him choke Palestine harder.

Oh, you.

Penguin wrote:

Oh, you.

Let me guess: you're one of those people who buy the "anti-Israel == anti-Jew" fallacy hook, line, and sinker?

TheHermit wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Oh, you.

Let me guess: you're one of those people who buy the "anti-Israel == anti-Jew" fallacy hook, line, and sinker?

Let me guess: you're one of those people who throw around baseless, and totally retarded accusations when someone has the audacity to not accept the "truth" you preach as if you were sent by the god you don't believe in? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Let me guess: you're one of those people who throw around baseless, and totally retarded accusations when someone has the audacity to not accept the "truth" you preach as if you were sent by the god you don't believe in? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Self-depreciation will get you nowhere.

Penguin wrote:

TheHermit wrote:

You missed that Israel has turned the Gaza strip into a concentration camp and is trying to completely eradicate any Palestinians in the area while holding onto illegally seized land.

The "terrorism" from Palestinians is the flailing of a dying man while he's being choked to death. Every so often one of his hands slaps his attacker, Israel, lightly in the face, which just enrages him and makes him choke Palestine harder.

Oh, you.

What's with you, Penguin? That's a good description of the situation.
All it needs is a footnote saying that the man being strangled argued with his neighbour on a matter of confines fifty years ago and called his friends to give him a sound beating. Since then he's taught his kids to beat the neighbour's kids and his dogs to bite his dogs, and has taken to set cars on fire in the town square and kicking puppies.

TheHermit wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Oh, you.

Let me guess: you're one of those people who buy the "anti-Israel == anti-Jew" fallacy hook, line, and sinker?

No.

The world according to Israel

On a different note, I had the displeasure of experiencing Glenn Beck's take on things today. Among other things, he claimed that socialism is inherently anti-Semitic since socialists hate Israel.

He seems completely unaware that by his own standards, Israel is slightly less socialist than, say, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Okay, the paper just put out something saying Israel told the organization that controls the flotillas "We will fucking gank you if you try to break our blockade". And the organization...sent the flotillas anyway? Not saying Israel is in the clear here, because, well they attacked an unarmed vessel in international waters and killed people. And there just isn't a way to spin that to make it any less than what it is.

But if that's true, (IF, BIG IF, because there's a lot of BS floating around right now) why would the organization deliberately put their people in a situation they knew would turn violent? Not saying the flotilla didn't have good intentions, because the people on the boat probably did, just wondering if the organization was looking to make Israel show their true colors.

Also, people here in the United States have to remember the Israelis aren't helpless woobies that just need love. Yes, the persecution of Jews over the years is horrific. Doesn't give them the right to start persecuting others.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Hmm.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Even if that were the case, the IDF had no grounds
under international law to board the vessel in the first place because
it was outside their territorial waters.

The only time a
military vessel may attack another ship in international waters is if
that ship has engaged in a hostile act ("do not fire until fired upon").
And the IDF's own Rules of Engagement specify that they may not engage
any ship until that ship has been positively identified as an enemy
ship, or has engaged in a hostile act such as firing upon IDF forces or
shelling Israeli territory.

Is this what you're referring to, or is there another source that could add some clarity?

Lapin wrote:

Also, people here in the United States have to remember the Israelis aren't helpless woobies that just need love. Yes, the persecution of Jews over the years is horrific. Doesn't give them the right to start persecuting others.

Given the way that they've acquitted themselves in every war they've ever been in, I don't think confusing them with helpless woobies is going to happen a lot.

Remember the part where they're strategically important?

Penguin wrote:

On a different note, I had the displeasure of experiencing Glenn Beck's take on things today. Among other things, he claimed that socialism is inherently anti-Semitic since socialists hate Israel.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I WILL GO OVER THERE

AND I WILL TEACH EVERYONE WHAT THE WORD SOCIALISM MEANS

WITH GRAPHS IF NECESSARY

(... Sometimes people misusing the word 'socialism' is funny. Sometimes it's my biggest rage button. D