Thinking about abortion now a crime.

Delcat wrote:

But but but but IT'S IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING WHEN YOU'RE TRYING NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT

OH GOD GUYS I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT ABORTIONS

AND PINK HIPPOS

Pink hippos? PINK HIPPOS!!1!

AUGH, DAMNIT!! NOW ALL I CAN THINK ABOUT ARE PINK HIPPOS YOU NO GOOD PINK HIPPOING MACHINE!!!!

bleachedblackcat wrote:

I just don't see why everyone is mad at the nurse

1] The police had been informed she was about to commit a crime. They arrested her. I'd need more information before I can form an opinion on their role in all this.
2] The nurse most definitely fucked up. As did the doctor. You can tell their concern was not that the woman was going to hurt herself, otherwise they'd have had her committed to the hospital for fear she might self-harm. Instead, they called the police saying OMG SAVE TEH PRESHUS BAYYYYBEEEEE!
3] Do no harm. It is drilled into doctors and nurses and there was most definitely harm here.
4] The nurse and doctor used information that legally should have been kept private, apparently without attempting to either make certain of how far along she was in her pregnancy or to discuss with her any concerns they might have about attempts at self harm. This is a gross violation, legally and ethically.

@Mal

I've seen data that indicates the same, but can't be arsed to dig up links to the actual studies, plus I've known people who had their doctor try to MAKE them circumcise their son. This is, thankfully, mostly older doctors. The culture of medical professionals is changing in that regards, but there are still doctors who believe their orders should be taken without protest or question.

rae wrote:

So many awesome things.

I <3 rae. That is all. Here's a flower!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It's so pretty! <3 I shall treasure it forevers! :D

rae wrote:

2] The nurse most definitely fucked up. As did the doctor. You can tell their concern was not that the woman was going to hurt herself, otherwise they'd have had her committed to the hospital for fear she might self-harm. Instead, they called the police saying OMG SAVE TEH PRESHUS BAYYYYBEEEEE!

She expressed intent to commit a crime. Good citizens have to report those sort of things.

rae wrote:

4] The nurse and doctor used information that legally should have been kept private, apparently without attempting to either make certain of how far along she was in her pregnancy or to discuss with her any concerns they might have about attempts at self harm. This is a gross violation, legally and ethically.

Nope, and nope.

Doctor-patient confidentiality does not apply if there is no bona-fide doctor-patient relationship; he wasn't treating her, he was questioning her. No relationship, no confidentiality.

Legally, the nurse and the doctor are in the clear.

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...

"Fetucide" is an actual fucking crime? As in, you can actually get arrested for killing a person that does not fucking legally exist yet?

Well, there goes my time machine murder scheme.

Psy-4 wrote:

rae wrote:

2] The nurse most definitely fucked up. As did the doctor. You can tell their concern was not that the woman was going to hurt herself, otherwise they'd have had her committed to the hospital for fear she might self-harm. Instead, they called the police saying OMG SAVE TEH PRESHUS BAYYYYBEEEEE!

She expressed intent to commit a crime.

No, she didn't. She said that she had, IN THE PAST, considered abortion or adoption. She didn't say, "YEAH I DECIDED I WAS SICK OF THE LITTLE PARASITE SO I HURLED MYSELF DOWN THE STAIRS TO KILL IT HURRRRR" which you'd know if you bothered to fucking read the articles.

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...

"Fetucide" is an actual fucking crime? As in, you can actually get arrested for killing a person that does not fucking legally exist yet?

I can see one instance where this law would not be fucked up and that would be if you wanted to charge someone with trying to terminate a pregnancy without the pregnant woman's knowledge, say by drugging her with an abortifactant. But that should be framed as an assault on the woman, not on the foetus.

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...

"Fetucide" is an actual fucking crime? As in, you can actually get arrested for killing a person that does not fucking legally exist yet?

I can see one instance where this law would not be fucked up and that would be if you wanted to charge someone with trying to terminate a pregnancy without the pregnant woman's knowledge, say by drugging her with an abortifactant. But that should be framed as an assault on the woman, not on the foetus.[/quote]
Yeah, that's the only case where I could see it being useful, too. Because, goddammit, pro-choice means exactly that: You get to choose. And if someone takes that choice away from you, whether it's by making you have a baby you don't want or keeping you from having a baby you do want, that should be punishable by the law. But this whole "LOL, you THOUGHT about aborting because you already have two kids and your partner just left you? You evil, baby-killing MONSTER!" shtick is bullshit.

Cyberwulf wrote:

No, she didn't. She said that she had, IN THE PAST, considered abortion or adoption. She didn't say, "YEAH I DECIDED I WAS SICK OF THE LITTLE PARASITE SO I HURLED MYSELF DOWN THE STAIRS TO KILL IT HURRRRR" which you'd know if you bothered to fucking read the articles.

Ah, my mistake. Medical professionals suspected she committed a crime. That changes... little.

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Because, goddammit, pro-choice means exactly that: You get to choose. And if someone takes that choice away from you, whether it's by making you have a baby you don't want or keeping you from having a baby you do want, that should be punishable by the law. But this whole "LOL, you THOUGHT about aborting because you already have two kids and your partner just left you? You evil, baby-killing MONSTER!" shtick is bullshit.

Don't you ever get tired of reiterating the same pro-choice mantra? It doesn't even need to be said anymore, most of us are already on your side, Captain Obvious. There is no reasonable debate with this; at most, a silly pro-lifer might wander in and start wank.

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute...

"Fetucide" is an actual fucking crime? As in, you can actually get arrested for killing a person that does not fucking legally exist yet?

Quote :

Statutory Definition of Illegal Abortion
"Feticide": Intentional termination of human pregnancy after end of second trimester. "Abortion": Termination of a human pregnancy with the intent other than to produce a live birth or remove a dead fetus. "Partial Birth Equivalent": A person who intentionally kills a viable fetus aborted alive shall be guilty of a Class B felony.

Quote :

Statutory Definition of Legal Abortion
Necessary to preserve life or health of mother or fetus; after end of second trimester with every reasonable effort made to preserve life of viable fetus

This is... Really, really hosed up, as the SA language filter would say. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

bleachedblackcat wrote:

I've known people who had their doctor try to MAKE them circumcise their son.

*raises hand*

*unzips pants*

See this? Yeah, that's me. I've been told that my doctor kept continually saying "it has to be done and you cannot question it," but not for any solid medical reasons he would reveal other than "just because." So my mom apparently didn't have too much choice in the matter and let him go ahead and do it.

Psy-4 wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

No, she didn't. She said that she had, IN THE PAST, considered abortion or adoption. She didn't say, "YEAH I DECIDED I WAS SICK OF THE LITTLE PARASITE SO I HURLED MYSELF DOWN THE STAIRS TO KILL IT HURRRRR" which you'd know if you bothered to fucking read the articles.

Ah, my mistake. Medical professionals suspected she committed a crime. That changes... little.

Going by that law, however, she did not commit a crime - even if she had done it on purpose, she was in her second trimester. That law only takes effect once a woman is in her third trimester.

*runs in to defend internet honor*

Eh screw it.

DarthDarthington wrote:

bleachedblackcat wrote:

I've known people who had their doctor try to MAKE them circumcise their son.

*raises hand*

*unzips pants*

See this? Yeah, that's me. I've been told that my doctor kept continually saying "it has to be done and you cannot question it," but not for any solid medical reasons he would reveal other than "just because." So my mom apparently didn't have too much choice in the matter and let him go ahead and do it.

Your mom did have a choice. She could have said, "There is no fucking way you're cutting up my son's genitals, I'm taking my boy and going home, and if you cut on him you're gonna get my boot up your ass in the form of a huge fucking lawsuit."

Oh, wait. That's what I would say. But whatever.

See, that's exactly the problem. A doctor is not God, and he or she DOES NOT have the right to bully and lie to a patient or the parents of a patient, refuse to reveal the actual medical necessity of a given procedure, and/or blatantly misrepresent the actual risks of a procedure to that patient. It just goes back to medical ethics.

All of the above happened in your case, Darth.

/thread hijack

Anathema wrote:

Going by that law, however, she did not commit a crime - even if she had done it on purpose, she was in her second trimester. That law only takes effect once a woman is in her third trimester.

From the article wrote:

The District Attorney -- after three weeks of investigation -- eventually declined to prosecute Taylor. Before you get too happy, keep in mind that this decision was made, not because the arrest was travesty to begin with, but because it came to light that Taylor was late in her second trimester when she fell, not early in her third as the hospital staff had thought.

Legally, everything is accounted for.

DarthDarthington wrote:

This is... Really, really hosed up, as the SA language filter would say. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

bleachedblackcat wrote:

I've known people who had their doctor try to MAKE them circumcise their son.

*raises hand*

*unzips pants*

See this? Yeah, that's me. I've been told that my doctor kept continually saying "it has to be done and you cannot question it," but not for any solid medical reasons he would reveal other than "just because." So my mom apparently didn't have too much choice in the matter and let him go ahead and do it.

. . .

Put your penis away before I take it away. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

ALSO, CUTWANKCUTWANKCUTWANK!!!

It's the most pointless, useless, unamusing wank there is. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

But but but male circumcision is proof that men are totally oppressed. It is exactly like FGM. They are totally analogous. Men can't be oppressed, because, when they are infants, we cut off their foreskins.

Male circumcision confuses me.



EDIT: Not in that way.

Speaking as someone who is pro-life in most cases, it's still screwed up to assume that she threw herself down the stairs to kill the fetus. I'm sure a lot of young women consider abortions, especially if they're not sure they can support the child. Also I'm pretty sure there are easy ways to induce an illegal abortion than risking serious bodily injury.

Chaltab wrote:

Also I'm pretty sure there are easy ways to induce an illegal abortion than risking serious bodily injury.

Yeah, but then you get godawful movies like the remake of It's Alive and NOBODY wants that shit.

Delcat wrote:

Yeah, but then you get godawful movies like the remake of It's Alive and NOBODY wants that shit.

Wow, they remade that TWO YEARS AGO and I didn't even notice. :/ Oh well, I liked the original so I'll probably see it, for nostalgia and possible lulz. Also to see how they did the baby-creature and how well it holds up against the original's surprisingly creepy effects.

/moar hijacking

Ayezur wrote:

But but but male circumcision is proof that men are totally oppressed. It is exactly like FGM. They are totally analogous. Men can't be oppressed, because, when they are infants, we cut off their foreskins.

Oh eat a dick. Yes, it's true, FGM is worse than circumcision but the fact of the matter is I still had an unnecessary medical amputation performed on me while I was fully conscious and too young to speak, let alone protest. Why? My Dad's jewish. Old tradition. And it's normal in America, for whatever reason.

Fuck that.

...and you don't remember it in the slightest. Why are you whining about it now?

TheHedonist wrote:

Ayezur wrote:

But but but male circumcision is proof that men are totally oppressed. It is exactly like FGM. They are totally analogous. Men can't be oppressed, because, when they are infants, we cut off their foreskins.

(rage)

Yeah. Ayezur, you're generally awesome and all, but I really hope you were joking with that comment. Because if you really want to go down this road I have a lot of pretty pictures to show you, including a picture of a baby boy whose entire penis had to be removed due to infection. He was given a graft of flesh that formed a tube to piss through. Not that it can do anything else, of course. It's just a lumpy, featureless gob of flesh that hangs off the front. No erectile tissue or specialized sexual nerve endings whatsoever.

And this kid will have this for the rest of his life. All because, most likely, his parents or his doctor, or both, wanted him to "be a normal American boy, because most American boys are circ'd and if he isn't he might be teased", or to "have a penis that looked like his father's", or to have "a penis that girls will find attractive". After all, it's just a little snip, right? Completely harmless.

Yeah. Right.

And for the record, people born with intersex genitals have, up until relatively recently, had unwanted, unnecessary sex-assignment surgeries performed on them that they did not consent to and perhaps might not have chosen, surgeries that can and do damage functioning erotic tissue, surgeries that are irreversible and can leave terrible scars. All to force their bodies into visibly, cosmetically, being either male or female, with no thought for what the adult who the child will become might decide. Because of course, they can't be entrusted with that choice, oh no.

And yes, this also includes girls who are born with clitoralmegaly, and boys who are born with micropenis. Both are mild forms of intersexual genitals.

So, no, it's not just a matter of men being angry about circumcision. It's a matter of people being angry over their bodies and their sexuality being carelessly tampered with, sometimes to the point of devastating and irreversible harm.

Chaltab wrote:

...and you don't remember it in the slightest. Why are you whining about it now?

Because you can totally do whatever the hell you want to another living human being if they can't remember it.

Malganis wrote:

So, no, it's not just a matter of men being angry about circumcision. It's a matter of people being angry over their bodies and their sexuality being carelessly tampered with, sometimes to the point of devastating and irreversible harm.

Chaltab wrote:

...and you don't remember it in the slightest. Why are you whining about it now?

Because you can totally do whatever the hell you want to another living human being if they can't remember it.

1.) Mal, I love you so much right now.

2.) Chaltab: And you think that makes it okay?

Chaltab wrote:

...and you don't remember it in the slightest. Why are you whining about it now?

This is possibly the most stupid post I've ever seen.