New and Exciting Obesity Solution

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ummm, how?

Compulsive overeating is recognized as an eating disorder by the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association. Harley actually hit the nail on the head here--there are some people who literally cannot stop eating. This thing will help them shed potentially life-threatening calories and work on their eating habits at the same time, without getting frustrated by the slow pace of dieting.

You guys are acting like this device is available to any old pudgebucket who wants to slim down before beach season, and that's not the case.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Your link is broken, but I found it anyway.

Apologies for the broken link. I've been visiting this board from my ipod. Link should be fixed now.

Quote :

Quote :

This program combines one-on-one counseling and group support meetings to encourage healthier food choices, smaller portion sizes, and increased physical activity.

In bold - exactly what you will get if you go to Weightwatchers.

Dieting fails for a lot of obese people, for a lot of reasons. If you've tried Weightwatchers, Jenny Craig, etc. and you still can't control your weight, surgical intervention may be the next best thing.

Quote :

Just like all those pills they advertise on TV that make you shit out fat.

I don't know how it is where you live, but here in the US diet pills and supplements are advertised as the "quick fix," eat everything you want and still lose weight! solution. Nothing is said about doctors or exercise. Unlike this device, which you have to go to the doctor to get.

Quote :

You don't even know what anorexia is.

Humor me then, what is anorexia and what am I not getting?

Quote :

Yes, you're absolutely right to ignore everything I said about sustainable weight loss as a lifestyle change, the commitment and mental strength required, healthy versus unhealthy coping strategies, all that stuff. What would I know, right? I've just been following a weight loss programme for the past eighteen and a half months.

Cyberwulf, I didn't mean to belittle your experience and knowledge, it sounds like you have done a lot of hard work, and that's great. But there are a lot of people who try all that and still fail. So as long as we're just stirring the pot here, aren't you essentially telling obese people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"?

Quote :

Maybe you should look at their home page again. HINT: they want to sell this thing.

Well, the giant banner on their homepage clearly states that this is a long-term solution, the opposite of a quick fix. So again, I don't see where you're getting that idea.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

What I'm really interested in is how Owlish apparently thinks that vacuuming a third of the food you eat out of your stomach is somehow a good alternative to eating 33% less food.

I don't think it's a good alternative to eating less food. Absolutely that should be the first priority. But when dieting continually fails, surgery is probably the next best thing.

Owlish wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ummm, how?

Compulsive overeating is recognized as an eating disorder by the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association. Harley actually hit the nail on the head here--there are some people who literally cannot stop eating. This thing will help them shed potentially life-threatening calories and work on their eating habits at the same time, without getting frustrated by the slow pace of dieting.

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

No, really. I was saying that. Some people find that dieting isn't the same simple option as it is for most people. They always, always feel hungry, or mentally they can't stop eating or whatever.

Not, of course, that there won't be perfectly normal people ramming it down their gullets to artificially starve themselves in the stupidest way possible.

grmblfjx wrote:

Say, Owlish, do you have some sort of behavioral problem or are you just an asshole? Are we supposed to be impressed by your condescending name-calling and accept you as our new leader or something?

Hahaha wow. Just, wow. Apparently I've ruffled a few egos here.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Condescending name calling is how we select our leaders afterall.

Owlish, unfortunately, is not quite good enough at it to make the cut.

Thank god for that, because I have no such delusions. Seriously, I've been a member for close to three years, and haven't hit 500 posts yet. There are months at a stretch that I don't come to this board at all. So, what part of that translates to trying to be a "leader"?

Look, kids, I just want to play in the sandbox like everyone else. For the record I come here because this board is, or was, full of intelligent people that I thought could handle some spirited language and not take it personally. Apparently I was wrong.

Disco Stu wrote:

Probably because it isn't baristric surgery or some shit? I'm curious as well, and awaiting Owlish to descend from their intellectual heights to smack us with words denoting how stupid we are for daring to question their superior intellect and superlative use of syntax

You remind me of the type of kid in high school who smokes for appearances, and latches onto everything the "cool" kids do because you have no personality of your own. Fuck off.

grmblfjx wrote:

So, show of hands; am I the only one who finds Owlish a special brand of obnoxious?

Make a fucking poll then. What's the point here, are you just trying to establish your pack dominance? Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

I'm not interested in your little imaginary turf war. Don't worry, your status as Queen Bee of the Dipshit Clan or whatever is safe, grmblfjx. I'm going to keep posting the same way I've been posting, and if that's a problem, then you can put me on ignore.

Owlish wrote:

Quote :

Yes, you're absolutely right to ignore everything I said about sustainable weight loss as a lifestyle change, the commitment and mental strength required, healthy versus unhealthy coping strategies, all that stuff. What would I know, right? I've just been following a weight loss programme for the past eighteen and a half months.

Cyberwulf, I didn't mean to belittle your experience and knowledge, it sounds like you have done a lot of hard work, and that's great. But there are a lot of people who try all that and still fail. So as long as we're just stirring the pot here, aren't you essentially telling obese people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"?

OH YEAH TOTALLY THAT'S WHY I CONTINUALLY BRING UP HOW FUCKING HARD IT IS TO LOSE WEIGHT, YOU FUCKING DUMBASS. Go read the fucking thread again.

Quote :

Quote :

Maybe you should look at their home page again. HINT: they want to sell this thing.

Well, the giant banner on their homepage clearly states that this is a long-term solution

Yes, they expect you to continue vacuuming out your stomach contents indefinitely as a solution to your weight problem.

Owlish wrote:

For the record I come here because this board is, or was, full of intelligent people that I thought could handle some spirited language and not take it personally. Apparently I was wrong.

Owlish wrote:

grmblfjx wrote:

So, show of hands; am I the only one who finds Owlish a special brand of obnoxious?

Make a fucking poll then. What's the point here, are you just trying to establish your pack dominance? Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

I'm not interested in your little imaginary turf war. Don't worry, your status as Queen Bee of the Dipshit Clan or whatever is safe, grmblfjx. I'm going to keep posting the same way I've been posting, and if that's a problem, then you can put me on ignore.

AHAHAHAHA

bawww more owlish, show us all how well you handle spirited language without taking it personally

Owlish wrote:

-insert giant baw fest-

You accused me of not being able to handle criticism a few months back... pot calling the kettle black it seems.

Owlish wrote:

I'm not interested in your little imaginary turf war. Don't worry, your status as Queen Bee of the Dipshit Clan or whatever is safe, grmblfjx. I'm going to keep posting the same way I've been posting, and if that's a problem, then you can put me on ignore.

Clearly it's my ego that's been ruffled, here. What was I supposed to take offense to? You weren't even talking to me.

Quote :

There are months at a stretch that I don't come to this board at all.

Correct. And then you *do*, and you get into a "discussion" that makes you look like a wannabe internet hardass, and in the end you either apologize (I think that happened, once) and/or disappear again. Name-calling right out of the gate doesn't actually help you make your point. Just saying.

Owlish wrote:

Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

Pfffft. I openly threatened members of this forum with rape, and I'm still here. I doubt anyone's going to make you go anywhere in the foreseeable future.

Oh my god. Why being up high school? Eat alone in the shitter for lunch one too many times?

Get the fuck over it, sweetie

Also, honey B: I've been a member here since 2003. I may not be the most prolific, but the moment you pull seniority... There's always someone who wasted more time in a backwater forum shithole than you. Don't awaken the Ents, dear

xerrofoot wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

Pfffft. I openly threatened members of this forum with rape, and I'm still here. I doubt anyone's going to make you go anywhere in the foreseeable future.

That's because no one takes you seriously, you anti-Knorg.

Freezer wrote:

xerrofoot wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

Pfffft. I openly threatened members of this forum with rape, and I'm still here. I doubt anyone's going to make you go anywhere in the foreseeable future.

That's because no one takes you seriously, you anti-Knorg.

That's still probably the best point he's ever made: you don't get banned here for being obnoxious, nobody was even thinking about trying to get anyone banned, and Owlish is being unnecessarily dramatic.

Owlish wrote:

This thing will help them shed potentially life-threatening calories and work on their eating habits at the same time, without getting frustrated by the slow pace of dieting.

This thing isn't going to work any faster than just eating a third less food.

Owlish wrote:

Dieting fails for a lot of obese people, for a lot of reasons. If you've tried Weightwatchers, Jenny Craig, etc. and you still can't control your weight, surgical intervention may be the next best thing.

Dieting fails for one of two reasons: ignorance or weakness. If you're trying shit like Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem (or anything that ships you a month of frozen meals and calls it a diet), the problem is clearly ignorance. Weightwatchers can actually work, as it's basically Calorie Counting for Dummies. If you're actually doing it right, you'll lose weight. If you're doing it wrong, you either don't know what you're doing, or you're too mentally weak to force yourself to do it properly.

Owlish wrote:

Cyberwulf, I didn't mean to belittle your experience and knowledge, it sounds like you have done a lot of hard work, and that's great. But there are a lot of people who try all that and still fail.

Because they either aren't trying hard enough or they don't know what they're doing. There is no way around this. No amount of whining about mental "diseases" (addiction to food isn't a fucking disease) is going to change thermodynamics for you.

This gizmo does nothing to solve the underlying problem of eating too much, it only attempts to fix the symptoms. There's nothing stopping people from eating even more food to compensate for this thing. To actually solve the problem, you have to change the behavior.

Owlish wrote:

So as long as we're just stirring the pot here, aren't you essentially telling obese people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"?

God no. Herniating a disc isn't going to fix anything. We want them to do what is necessary (eat less and move more) to lose weight, so that they may be able to lift themselves without exploding their spine.

Owlish wrote:

Well, the giant banner on their homepage clearly states that this is a long-term solution, the opposite of a quick fix.

First of all, the banner on their home page is almost certainly created by Marketing majors who wouldn't know their ass from their elbow in any topic of relevance.

Second, and this is really important, this is not a solution for anything. It does nothing to stop the destructive behavior, it only encourages it. It's like telling a smoker to smoke outside so at least the house won't smell like burnt ass hair.

Owlish wrote:

I don't think it's a good alternative to eating less food. Absolutely that should be the first priority. But when dieting continually fails, surgery is probably the next best thing.

No, doing it right is the next best thing. It is the only best thing. Remember when I used to weasel SPORTS into every post? I'm bringing it back. That's like saying your players can't tackle for shit when you like up in a 3-4 defense, so you should like up in a 4-3 front. It won't change the fact that you can't tackle, just like a stomach pump isn't going to fix the problem that you can't stop eating.

Owlish wrote:

Thank god for that, because I have no such delusions. Seriously, I've been a member for close to three years, and haven't hit 500 posts yet. There are months at a stretch that I don't come to this board at all. So, what part of that translates to trying to be a "leader"?

Look, kids, I just want to play in the sandbox like everyone else. For the record I come here because this board is, or was, full of intelligent people that I thought could handle some spirited language and not take it personally. Apparently I was wrong.

Make a fucking poll then. What's the point here, are you just trying to establish your pack dominance? Do you want me to leave? Go cry to the mods, maybe I'll get banned for being an offensive asshole.

I'm not interested in your little imaginary turf war. Don't worry, your status as Queen Bee of the Dipshit Clan or whatever is safe, grmblfjx. I'm going to keep posting the same way I've been posting, and if that's a problem, then you can put me on ignore.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

If you're trying shit like Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem (or anything that ships you a month of frozen meals and calls it a diet)

...you're being scammed by money-grubbing assholes out to make millions off people's desperate search for a quick fix.

Xerro, I know you're feeling pretty big right now for still being here, but don't go around pushing your luck. If you want to be banned, all you have to do is wander around saying "Hey, nobody's ever gonna ban me!"

People have been banned before.

AT MY MIGHTY REQUESTFUL DEMAND.

Quote :

You remind me of the type of kid in high school who smokes for appearances, and latches onto everything the "cool" kids do because you have no personality of your own. Fuck off.

And you're that kid with more fedora's than T-shirts.

Owlish wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ummm, how?

Compulsive overeating is recognized as an eating disorder by the American Medical Association and the American Psychological Association. Harley actually hit the nail on the head here--there are some people who literally cannot stop eating. This thing will help them shed potentially life-threatening calories and work on their eating habits at the same time, without getting frustrated by the slow pace of dieting.

That really does not answer my question at all.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Dieting fails for a lot of obese people, for a lot of reasons. If you've tried Weightwatchers, Jenny Craig, etc. and you still can't control your weight, surgical intervention may be the next best thing.

Dieting fails for one of two reasons: ignorance or weakness. If you're trying shit like Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem (or anything that ships you a month of frozen meals and calls it a diet), the problem is clearly ignorance. Weightwatchers can actually work, as it's basically Calorie Counting for Dummies. If you're actually doing it right, you'll lose weight. If you're doing it wrong, you either don't know what you're doing, or you're too mentally weak to force yourself to do it properly.

OK, so there are extremely obese patients who are too stupid or weak-willed to benefit from a conventional weight-loss program. What should doctors do about it? Letting natural selection take its course? Bariatric surgery has been shown to decrease mortality in this high risk group. Are you suggesting to deny them the only treatment that could possibly be effective? Tell them to shut the fuck up about their diabetes or their heart attacks and go join Weight Watchers again for the umpteenth time, even if it apparently doesn't work for them? Doctors aren't recommending bariatric surgery, because they think this is totally the best way to lose weight, but because sometimes it's the only solution to prevent other, worse health outcomes from happening.

Back on topic, I don't know about this stomach pump and how effective it is in causing a significant long-term loss of weight. However, I think cyberwulf has raised some reasonable objections as to why this is most probably not a good alternative for bariatric surgery, and won't help patients change their eating habits.

How hard would it be to keep that thing sterile? You have it in your stomach, you pump food and, (presumably), gastric juices through it. I'd think that it would be very hard to prevent infections.

Eating less is safer. When you eat a little less, your stomach reduces and so expects a little less. Eventually, with willpower, you want less. I simply cannot see how eating the same huge quantity, stretching out your stomach, then pumping some of it out could ever help cure the problem of over-eating. You'd still, and always, want that huge amount of food.

Summercorn wrote:

How hard would it be to keep that thing sterile? You have it in your stomach, you pump food and, (presumably), gastric juices through it. I'd think that it would be very hard to prevent infections.

Eating less is safer. When you eat a little less, your stomach reduces and so expects a little less. Eventually, with willpower, you want less. I simply cannot see how eating the same huge quantity, stretching out your stomach, then pumping some of it out could ever help cure the problem of over-eating. You'd still, and always, want that huge amount of food.

Then you, y'know, realize that there are people who cannot, (CANNOT) CANNOT stop eating, no matter what they try to do and surgery or a stomach pump is really their only choice unless they are 'happy'/going to have a heart attack with their body. These types of people are incredibly desperate (in most cases) to find a 'cure' for what they have to admit is a problem to themselves before they can get started on the treatment of it. And admitting that something you're doing isn't exactly easy as I'm sure real life as taught all of us (except, maybe harley or xerro)

Cyberwulf wrote:

OH YEAH TOTALLY THAT'S WHY I CONTINUALLY BRING UP HOW FUCKING HARD IT IS TO LOSE WEIGHT, YOU FUCKING DUMBASS. Go read the fucking thread again.

Yeah, you've gone on and on about how it's so fucking hard to lose weight, for four pages now. I get it. Good for you. But there are some people who just can't do it your way, and going on and on about your own weight loss program isn't going to change that.

Quote :

Yes, they expect you to continue vacuuming out your stomach contents indefinitely as a solution to your weight problem.

"Long term" is not the same thing as "indefinite." You went from claiming this was being marketed as a "quick-fix" to now claiming the makers expect it to be used "indefinitely," and neither is true. This device helps people make long-term changes to their lifestyle with professional assistance.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

That really does not answer my question at all.

Then I guess I didn't understand your question. Care to elaborate?

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Dieting fails for one of two reasons: ignorance or weakness.

Quote :

This gizmo does nothing to solve the underlying problem of eating too much, it only attempts to fix the symptoms. There's nothing stopping people from eating even more food to compensate for this thing. To actually solve the problem, you have to change the behavior.

And having this device can help people change their behavior. You can't just get a tube put in your stomach and happily overeat for the rest of your life. Number one, you have to go to the doctor to have it put in, and the doctor is legally liable if they give you treatment which is inappropriate to your situation, so obviously there's going to be some discussion of health issues. Number two, it has a function that will shut off after a certain amount of food has been emptied from the stomach each day. Number three, there's going to have to be regular maintenance (which means refilling prescription items) and checking in with your doctor because it's a fucking hole in your gut. This thing has already been approved for commercial use in several European countries, so apparently there's enough evidence that it's safe and reliable. Five years from now it will have lost it's novelty, and be just another form of bariatric surgery.

Summercorn wrote:

How hard would it be to keep that thing sterile? You have it in your stomach, you pump food and, (presumably), gastric juices through it. I'd think that it would be very hard to prevent infections.

Plenty of people have catheters in place for extended periods, or chemo pumps. So yeah, it takes some effort to maintain, moreso because it's your digestive tract, but it wouldn't be that difficult to prevent infections.

grmblfjx wrote:

Quote :

There are months at a stretch that I don't come to this board at all.

Correct. And then you *do*, and you get into a "discussion" that makes you look like a wannabe internet hardass, and in the end you either apologize (I think that happened, once) and/or disappear again. Name-calling right out of the gate doesn't actually help you make your point. Just saying.

Yeah, I "disappear" because sometimes I can't get on the internet for some time. Don't flatter yourself thinking it has anything to do with anything that's said here. And 95 percent of the time, I don't name-call at all. Actually, like 95 percent of the time my posts don't cause drama in any way, so...

Owlish wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

That really does not answer my question at all.

Then I guess I didn't understand your question. Care to elaborate?

You said this device had the potential to fix eating disorders. I fail to see how.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

That really does not answer my question at all.

Then I guess I didn't understand your question. Care to elaborate?

You said this device had the potential to fix eating disorders. I fail to see how.

Maybe it's because instead of ruining the lining of your esophagus by puking so damn much, or the rest of yourself by taking too many laxatives, this machine takes care of the process of purging without those negative, awful effects.

Owlish wrote:

Yeah, I "disappear" because sometimes I can't get on the internet for some time. Don't flatter yourself thinking it has anything to do with anything that's said here.

...Which I don't, and I never said, and I don't know where you even got that. Making assumptions is one of your strong suits, is it? Plenty of people here are on and off for various reasons. My point was that every time you do show up, you start shit eventually.

Quote :

And 95 percent of the time, I don't name-call at all. Actually, like 95 percent of the time my posts don't cause drama in any way, so...

Funny thing is that you don't have to be obnoxious every single time you open your mouth for people to remember you as obnoxious. But if just the very first page of your post history contains gems such as

Quote :

any of you fucking drooling troglodytes

Quote :

you dipshits screeching over a minimally informative blurb

and someone else says to you that

Quote :

isn't it much easier to ignore/ make fun of/ deal with in the present than act all high and mighty as if everyone is some giant irritation?

which describes at least every other post of yours, and tells you to

Quote :

Woah relax, okay? Just let it die

...then maybe it shouldn't come as a complete surprise that your one level-headed post about Family Guy a month ago isn't the one that sticks out in people's minds.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

You said this device had the potential to fix eating disorders. I fail to see how.

Because having this device requires regular contact with healthcare professionals, which I explained more above in my response to Mikey.

grmblfjx wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Yeah, I "disappear" because sometimes I can't get on the internet for some time. Don't flatter yourself thinking it has anything to do with anything that's said here.

...Which I don't, and I never said, and I don't know where you even got that. Making assumptions is one of your strong suits, is it? Plenty of people here are on and off for various reasons. My point was that every time you do show up, you start shit eventually.

So, what's the goal of claiming that I "disappear" if you're not implying I hide from shit? Wouldn't it be a stronger statement to say that I continually start shit regardless of how often I post? That my unbroken chain of shit-starting posts has been obnoxious and offensive from the beginning without an ounce of merit? I dunno

Also, let me point out that in this thread, my first post was completely calm and reasoned. Cyberwulf responded by swearing at me, and I responded in kind. At the risk of sounding erudite and condescending, when in Rome


And let's look at this full exchange here:

Disco Stu wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Owlish wrote:

Disco Stu wrote:

You know that retail, F&B, and women's studies courses are full of people saying grating shit right

Yes I do. Venting here is the only thing that prevents me from legally obtaining an automatic firearm and shooting the place up.

Somehow I doubt you'd be able to obtain an NFA weapon.

I doubt most people who joke about shooting others for whatever reason actually do it, but at the same time why are you ranting? Doesn't this come with the territory for some things? Yeah it's irritating but isn't it much easier to ignore/ make fun of/ deal with in the present than act all high and mighty as if everyone is some giant irritation? Like yeah, some person asking for the trillionth time how much something is when you work at a 99 cent store can be irritating but to each new person you'll never see again, they're just trying to be funny. Drunk people are annoying. 14 year old boys are annoying. It kind of is a glimpse into someone's psyche.

So...what exactly is your beef with my comments? That I'm using the thread for its intended purpose, to share stupid things people have said? Or that I made a stupid topical joke? Either way, what is the fucking point of your post?

Woah relax, okay? Just let it die and remember this as something stupid someone has said. There was a point, but it doesn't matter anymore. You seem to be taking this personally. Don't worry about it.

My comment about firearms was meant as a self-deprecating joke. In response to my one sentence joke, Disco Stu responds with a paragraph of armchair analysis about how it's a "glimpse into my psyche," then whines when I call it bullshit. So yeah, quoting some whiny prick at me again is not going to convince me at all but thanks for trying I guess.


And as long as we're digging into my posting history,

Reidmar wrote:

Owlish wrote:

-insert giant baw fest-

You accused me of not being able to handle criticism a few months back... pot calling the kettle black it seems.

I...don't remember this at all? Not saying it didn't happen, but unless you're remembering this from beyond the extent of my posting history....

Owlish wrote:

So, what's the goal of claiming that I "disappear" if you're not implying I hide from shit? scratch Wouldn't it be a stronger statement to say that I continually start shit regardless of how often I post? That my unbroken chain of shit-starting posts has been obnoxious and offensive from the beginning without an ounce of merit? I dunno

When all else fails, argue semantics. You'll win.