FtM genital surgeries forced on Indian children

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Quote :

As Hindustan Times reported that hundreds of girl children in Indore are being operated on to turn them into boys, the Medical Council of India (MCI) and the Madhya Pradesh health department on Sunday recommended measures to ensure that parents hankering for male children don’t exploit such ‘corrective’ surgeries with the help of corrupt doctors.

The procedure, called genitoplasty, is recommended only for those children whose internal organs don’t match their external genitalia (for instance, someone who has male internal organs but female genitals and female hormone).

Great, so they'd only be mutilating unconsenting intersex children, instead of just any girl who the parents want to be outwardly masculinized (what about hormone treatments later on?).

Quote :

The National Commission for Protection of Child Rights has reportedly asked the state government to investigate the matter. Such surgeries — on children as young as 1-5 years old — are rampant in Indore's clinics and hospitals. The city's genitoplasty experts say each of them have turned 200-300 girls into 'boys' so far. The low cost of surgery (Rs 1.5 lakh), relatively easy and unobtrusive ways of getting it done and vague laws are even attracting parents from Delhi and Mumbai.

I predict there being a lot of gender-dysphoric kids in India in a few years. Those poor kids. How about not cutting up any child's genitals because the parents baaawwww about gender and fling some money at the doctor?

Odd. Usually doctors don't do anything when I fling money at them. The surrounding peasants dive on that shit like seagulls on a french fry, though.

Are the surgeries even really... Effective? Last I heard, FtM bottom surgeries were disappointingly shit. Maybe a boatload of transguys need to head to India.

Verandering wrote:

Are the surgeries even really... Effective? Last I heard, FtM bottom surgeries were disappointingly shit. Maybe a boatload of transguys need to head to India.

If you only care about the looks and not about the performance and feeling, you could have a perfectly real-looking penis put on your elbow by plastic surgery.

I suspect the parents only care about the looks and/or have been misinformed about the performance and feeling.

Notanoni wrote:

I suspect the parents only care about the looks and/or have been misinformed about the performance and feeling.

They have most likely been lead to believe that the surgery will give their children a "complete transition", as in their sons would be able to father children and be able to carry on the bloodline.

The appeal of the surgery would be lost once the parents realizes their children are sterile.

This is a country where women will abort a child if it is a girl because not having a male child is a social stigmata, throw in stuff like this and india is gearing up for an epic population crash when the there almsot no women in the country of child bearing age.

XLT-100852.0 wrote:

Notanoni wrote:

I suspect the parents only care about the looks and/or have been misinformed about the performance and feeling.

They have most likely been lead to believe that the surgery will give their children a "complete transition", as in their sons would be able to father children and be able to carry on the bloodline.

The appeal of the surgery would be lost once the parents realizes their children are sterile.

Maybe. In cultures like this, the idea of "male is superior to female" is so strong that parents may well prefer a sterile "male" over a fertile female.

Somath Cegem wrote:

This is a country where women will abort a child if it is a girl because not having a male child is a social stigmata, throw in stuff like this and india is gearing up for an epic population crash when the there almsot no women in the country of child bearing age.

Which, not to sound racist, but the world needs a population lessening at some point. Not to say a population crash / collapse is a good thing, but constant growth in humans on this planet is really showing the strain. Countries all over the world* need to come to terms and realise that "be fruitful and multiply" isn't an awesome strategy forever and ever.



*Especially you, Duggars

Jesus, there are going to be a lot of very, very confused 'guys' in about ten years.



('Guys' is not a insult to transgendered people, please don't take it as such.)

Wait, so having a baby girl makes nail and spear wounds appear in your body?

Penguin wrote:

Wait, so having a baby girl makes nail and spear wounds appear in your body?

No, but they still dower females over there, so girl children are considered bad because they're guaranteed to be a financial loss.

(On a side note, I've always thought dowries as one case where the normal rules of supply and demand get twisted through at least five dimensions.)

Ghost in the Machine wrote:

(On a side note, I've always thought dowries as one case where the normal rules of supply and demand get twisted through at least five dimensions.)

They've been used as a crude safeguard for wives.
I.E. the wife comes with land. If the husband kills his wife, the wife's family gets to take back the land.

Ghost in the Machine wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Wait, so having a baby girl makes nail and spear wounds appear in your body?

No, but

Sigh.

Somath Cegem wrote:

stigmata

Thanks, Penguin. ahaha.

Notanoni wrote:

Verandering wrote:

Are the surgeries even really... Effective? Last I heard, FtM bottom surgeries were disappointingly shit. Maybe a boatload of transguys need to head to India.

If you only care about the looks and not about the performance and feeling, you could have a perfectly real-looking penis put on your elbow by plastic surgery.

I suspect the parents only care about the looks and/or have been misinformed about the performance and feeling.

Actually, no.
There's always the problem of rejection with that sort of thing. As well as going in reverse, if you were to attempt gynoplasty on individuals born with a penis. The body is pretty good at being paranoid like that, which is why surgery is such a big deal in the first place.

Edit:
And one more thing... It's incredibly difficult to get a "real looking" penis. As far as I know, it takes phalloplasty and a good tattoo artist.

Edit edit:
Hmmm, now I'm wondering if the ease of the realistic look relies on whether you're going for foreskin or not.

This is an extreme version of what China's been doing for years with it's 'One Child' policy. Since abortion is widely available on demand, and sons are viewed as more desirable than daughters, women have been aborting female fetusus to the point that the current generation of males doesn't have enough women to ensure that those who want to marry will be able to find a wife. And the problem's only going to get worse, because the 'a son is preferable over a daughter' is so deeply ingrained in the culture that the Government actually offering financial incentives to couples who have daughters isn't working.

I suspect we'll see the same thing happening in China in 10-15 years; if it isn't already going on now.

And Verandering's right; it's incredibly hard to create a realistic looking penis. From the way this sounds, they're not bothering with hormones (which is probably a good thing, if some of the patients are as young as they say they are), but all they're doing is creating 'boys' who are still, internally and emotionally, girls. If they think that giving them some sort of rudimentary penis is going to magically turn them into a boy when they hit puberty, there are going to be a fair number of extremely sexually confused young 'men' in India in five or ten years, and a lot of parents, who are probably completely ignorant of how actual sex reassignment works, who aren't going to understand why their 'son' isn't acting like a boy.

It's illegal in China for doctors to tell parents the sex of their unborn child.

It's that bad.

Regarding the population crash... well, no offense but India isn't exactly one of those countries running low on people.

Dowries are stupid if you want more children, but like several people have said, a little population crash in the Third World won't be too harmful to the world population.

China's finding out the nasty way that women are an awful lot more important than they used to think. Dowries are really going out of fashion and the way things are going men will be paying for women to marry them. Like they bloody well should be like males do when they court in nature.

It'll take about 30 years for the change to affect things in India though, and that's only if things escalate or are several thousand times worse than they say.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

a little population crash in the Third World won't be too harmful to the world population.

But, see, there's an inverse ratio you're not thinking about. There's no reason to only target the third world. People in the first world may be less populated, and more educated, but we still use a fuckton more resources than the common family in the third world whose worldly possessions consist of a hut and a few bowls. As I said above, the carbon footprint of a single Duggar is about the size of several rural indian families.

What we need is population education and control* worldwide.


*And please don't read that as dictatorial. I mean having a responsibly sized, sustainable family.

Point taken, Sakurelf... considering the starving situations of Indian and African families, it's not really helping that much. If at all.

Sakurelf wrote:

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

That has nothing to do with what's happening here -- which is that these kids' rights are being violated in a pretty horrible way. These families and doctors don't need lessons on population control and family planning -- they need to realize that they're harming these kids for life, and they're violating basic human rights. There's an entire social mindset at work here behind this that needs to be taken down.

Has Mally derailed her own thread into circumcision wank yet? No?

inb4 Mally derails her own thread into circumcision wank.

This isn't even related to circumcision. Circumcision doesn't involve effectively turning your genitals inside-out.

Generally, how does FtM surgery work? I have a basic idea of how MtF works, how they change the penis to a vagina. But how do they make a penis?

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Basically, one is cut a tendon and the other is construction.

I don't think the new penises of these new 'boys' will grow with the child. And you know what? With girl hormones, when they hit puberty they're STILL gonna grow breasts, and have a very small penis.

And you know what else? They're gonna mostly be attracted to boys; even if conditioned to like girls they're gonna be at best bisexual. They're not really gonna want to marry to get that dowry. Is the shame of having a fertile heterosexual female greater than having a sterile homosexual male?