Government of Honduras overthrown, President forcibly exiled

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Honduran President Jose Manuel Zelaya said he awoke to gunfire in his home and was still in his pajamas when the military forced him to leave the country Sunday.

"This was a brutal kidnapping of me with no justification," Zelaya said of the military-led coup. He was speaking from Costa Rica where a military plane had taken him after he was held Sunday morning.

Oh, fun...another country in turmoil. How many does that make now?

Quote :

Earlier, the military had confiscated ballots from the presidential residence, in effect canceling the disputed vote. Meanwhile, the state-run television news station was taken off the air, and there were reports of cell phones and electricity interruptions in parts of the country.

The country's top military commander, Gen. Romeo Vasquez Velasquez, told the president that the military would not support the referendum.

In response, Zelaya said last Wednesday that he would fire Vasquez.

And thus, the solution is to topple the elected government. Makes sense to me...

Pissed about a disputed election? Worried that the man in power isn't good for your country? Then create national turmoil by KIDNAPPING THE PRESIDENT!

SUCCESS! Your country is now in good hands!

Well the world is just going to Hell, isn't it? Jeez, people are dropping dead and every country is losing control.

Some Idiot wrote:

Well the world is just going to Hell, isn't it? Jeez, people are dropping dead and every country is losing control.

Because before this week nobody died.

Ever.

And no dumpy third world country has EVER went through this.

I'm not saying this is a GOOD thing, but it is far from a sign of the Apocalypse. Hopefully it'll be resolved in a positive way.

And hopefully Michael Jordan will make a triumphant return to the NBA and lead the Bulls back to the Promised Land.

That's the problem with democracy. Sometimes, if it's a free and fair result, it doesn't turn out the way the rich and powerful want it to.

But dammit, kidnapping and military coups? When are these third world countries gonna get with it and subvert elections the civilized way--Diebold voting machines with no paper trail and super secret solftware. Geez. Make it all difficult why don't you?

No offense meant to the people of Honduras, but aren't military coups kind of the norm around that area? Or at least guerilla warfare and poverty to the point of lawlessness.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Some Idiot wrote:

Well the world is just going to Hell, isn't it? Jeez, people are dropping dead and every country is losing control.

Because before this week nobody died.

Ever.

And no dumpy third world country has EVER went through this.

I'm not saying this is a GOOD thing, but it is far from a sign of the Apocalypse. Hopefully it'll be resolved in a positive way.

And hopefully Michael Jordan will make a triumphant return to the NBA and lead the Bulls back to the Promised Land.

I was being deliberately over-dramatic for comedic purposes.

There used to be lots of dictators back in the early 80s, but really nasty ones gathered around Pinochet in the south, with Chile and Argentina in cahoots to be a pain in the ass to crazy marxists by being even crazier righties.

In the Caribbean, there was USA-backed Trujillo killing people, while in Central America, Nicaragua had a wanker in charge for the longest time.

Not everything's doom and gloom. Panama and Costa Rica have never gotten in deep trouble, iirc. Meanwhile, Colombia's biggest problem is drug trade, not lack of democracy.

Currently, Chavez is the one stirring up shit, but while he has several local presidents doing his bidding, they themselves are merely followers. And then there's grandpa Fidel, clinging to life just to spite the USA.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Link

Quote :

Honduran President Jose Manuel Zelaya said he awoke to gunfire in his home and was still in his pajamas when the military forced him to leave the country Sunday.

"This was a brutal kidnapping of me with no justification," Zelaya said of the military-led coup. He was speaking from Costa Rica where a military plane had taken him after he was held Sunday morning.

Oh, fun...another country in turmoil. How many does that make now?

Ten, minimum.

Only three more years until the world ends. This is just the beginning. :cthulhu:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

England has the Olympics, something is bound to go to shit.

Somath Cegem wrote:

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

England has the Olympics, something is bound to go to shit.

The Olympics. We don't actually do that kind of thing very well.

Somath Cegem wrote:

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

England has the Olympics, something is bound to go to shit.

This is going in my sig. Jesus Christ, I LOLed.

Somath Cegem wrote:

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

England has the Olympics, something is bound to go to shit.

Actually, it'll probably the first Olympics in nearly thirty years where anything goes right.

Lexin wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

England has the Olympics, something is bound to go to shit.

The Olympics. We don't actually do that kind of thing very well.

Your gymnasts will at least be of age, I'm guessing. So that's one thing we can count on to go at least partially right, even if nothing else does.

Chris91 wrote:

You don't actually take that "2012" junk seriously, do you?

You don't actually take everything on the Internet seriously, do you? :face:

Wait, why is this a bad thing? The military acted on behalf of the people to remove a president who planned to violate their constitution, jack their election, and was guilty of drug trafficking, and replaced him with... the democratically elected successor.

Why is that a bad thing again?

A_Note_Chaotic wrote:

Wait, why is this a bad thing? The military acted on behalf of the people to remove a president who planned to violate their constitution, jack their election, and was guilty of drug trafficking, and replaced him with... the democratically elected successor.

Why is that a bad thing again?

Because usually you wait until they actually violate the constitution and jack the election before hauling them out of the country at gunpoint. At least then it doesn't look like a coup.

Quote :

Because usually you wait until they actually violate the constitution and jack the election before hauling them out of the country at gunpoint. At least then it doesn't look like a coup.

Well, he already violated the Constitution. The shebang is that the exiled president wanted to do a referendum to extend his mandate.

Article 42. sec. 4-5 of the Honduras Constitution says, among other things:

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ARTICULO 42.-
La calidad de ciudadano se pierde:

4. Por coartar la libertad de sufragio, adulterar documentos electorales o emplear medios fraudulentos para burlar la voluntad popular;
5. Por incitar, promover o apoyar el continuismo o la reelección del Presidente de la República;

Translation on the fly by me:

"Citizenship is lost by:
4. Restricting freedom to vote, alter election documents or use fraud to cheat the public will;
5. Inciting, promoting or sponsoring the continuity or the reelection of the President of the Republic."

VERY IMPORTANT the last one! What the exiled president was trying to do is exactly that. But... he tried to do one anyway. So not only the opposition party didn't like it, his own political party didn't like it, the head chief of the military didn't want to, and the Supreme Court said no, he tried to do so anyway.

He sacked the military chief and replaced him with another one. The second one, instead of obeying, pulled off the coup.

Why did they do the coup? Well, because the Honduras Constitution doesn't say anything about Nixon-style impeachments. But here's how the military justified their move:

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ARTICULO 272.- Las Fuerzas Armadas de Honduras, son una Institución Nacional de carácter permanente, esencialmente profesional, apolítica, obediente y no deliberante. Se constituyen para defender la integridad territorial y la soberanía de la República, mantener la paz, el orden público y el imperio de la Constitución, los principios de libre sufragio y la alternabilidad en el ejercicio de la Presidencia de la República."

ARTICULO 323.- (...)Ningún funcionario o empleado, civil o militar, está obligado a cumplir órdenes ilegales o que impliquen la comisión de delito."

Art. 272: "The Honduras Armed Forces are a national institution of permanent character, essentially professional, apolitical, obedient and non-deliberating (that is, it doesn't get to decide anything -me). It's constituted to defend the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of the Republic, keep the peace, public order and the rule of the Constitution, the principles of free elections and the alternativalibity of the exercise of the presidency of the republic."

Alternativalibity - my crappy translation of the concept that presidents should be varied, that is, same dude can't run again. The crux of the matter; a common concept in Latin American constitutions because of a long history with dictators. What's more, in this Constitution, the army is Constitutionally mandated to keep the variety going. In short, stealing elections is deadly serious business.

Art. 323: "No funcionary or employee, civilian or military, is obligated to carry out illegal orders or ones that imply committing a crime."

So...what if it's the president the one that's committing the crime? Well, as I said, there's no mechanism for a Nixon-style impeachment. So the military kicked him out the hard, clumsy way and, from this 1am analysis right now, it looks to me that it's a legal move, however bizarre it might look like to outsiders. In fact, if I'm reading this thing right, they can remove his citizenship. So what do you do with 'ilegal aliens'? You kick them out.

Also, bear in mind two concepts. Unlike the USA, the Honduras president is NOT the chief of the armed forces. And two, the exiled president was trying to pull a populist Chavez-like grab for power, and that just pissed them off.

Very good analysis here, if you want to test your Spanish.