SO it begins.....

Can someone tell me what the deal is with the little *-thing? I feel like everyone knows but me. Is that a stand-in for LGBTetcetc?

TheHedonist wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

My point is that doesn't mean you get to label me or anybody else with it without consent.

And yet they can be labelled as trans* without their consent? I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. Before you were aware that you are biologically male (assuming you are biologically male, as this is the internet) you were, in fact, biologically male and you were not upset to find out the name of the category you happened to fit into. The same could be said of your age or your race or what language you speak or whatever. You didn't pitch a tantrum when you learned how describe yourself, say, as an english speaker, so I don't get why having a word that assigns you as part of the dominant gender binary is such an issue any more than it's an issue to have a word that describes your biological sex, sexual orientation, race, or age. They are all intrinsic parts of who you are that have an appropriate terminology built around them to describe them succinctly. How is this any different?

I don't take issue with there being a word as I already said, I just don't like it being assigned to me without my say so. Just the same as I don't want anybody labelling my romantic or sexual orientation for me, that's my job, as it's you're job to figure out what if anything you want to call the inner working of your brain.

Somath Cegem wrote:

TheHedonist wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

My point is that doesn't mean you get to label me or anybody else with it without consent.

And yet they can be labelled as trans* without their consent? I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. Before you were aware that you are biologically male (assuming you are biologically male, as this is the internet) you were, in fact, biologically male and you were not upset to find out the name of the category you happened to fit into. The same could be said of your age or your race or what language you speak or whatever. You didn't pitch a tantrum when you learned how describe yourself, say, as an english speaker, so I don't get why having a word that assigns you as part of the dominant gender binary is such an issue any more than it's an issue to have a word that describes your biological sex, sexual orientation, race, or age. They are all intrinsic parts of who you are that have an appropriate terminology built around them to describe them succinctly. How is this any different?

I don't take issue with there being a word as I already said, I just don't like it being assigned to me without my say so. Just the same as I don't want anybody labelling my romantic or sexual orientation for me, that's my job, as it's you're job to figure out what if anything you want to call the inner working of your brain.

You're right, Somath. You're so, so right. How dare wimmins and blacks and gays and trannies call you something. How dare they label you according to a set of factual characteristics. Don't they understand that you're a unique individual?

YOU already labelled yourself, you fucking dumbass. You told us you're male, you told us you're cis, you go on about a girlfriend so we infer that you're straight. This isn't about people ASSUMING anything. You're objecting to there being a word for "not trans". God, you're so fucking fond of bleeding from the mouth about how tough you had it as a boy going to the wrong school or having the wrong accent or whatever it is you trot out when the rest of us talk about real problems, and you're objecting to there being a word for "not trans", and HORROR OF HORRORS it's applied INDIRECTLY (that's the best part, btw) to you because you're "not trans".

Get some fucking perspective, would you?


Good Christ, I'm so fucking sick of Liberal Dudes stifling every single conversation that even touches on gender because the rest of us won't give their balls a delicate tonguebath while pandering to their every whim.

You know, Cyberwulf; you're not actually required to be violently offended on behalf of every minority in these parts, right?

Somath Cegem wrote:

that's my job, as it's you're job to figure out what if anything you want to call the inner working of your brain.

I propose we all call ourselves 'normal' and let the conversation go from there.

Sutremaine wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

that's my job, as it's you're job to figure out what if anything you want to call the inner working of your brain.

I propose we all call ourselves 'normal' and let the conversation go from there.

This gets my vote.

grmblfjx wrote:

Can someone tell me what the deal is with the little *-thing? I feel like everyone knows but me. Is that a stand-in for LGBTetcetc?

It's used to indicate the umbrella term Transgender, as opposed to the traditionally understood definition of Transgender (which is, as you can already see in this thread, assumed purely as MtF and FtM transsexuals). It's the term for everything from transsexuals to non-binary gender identities to just gender nonconformance and variance (and for anyone wondering, the latter is not necessarily an identity and not necessarily exclusive to transpeople- cispeople can feel/experience gender nonconformance and/or gender variance).

PS. Somath, you're a cissie. Get some balls.

I am curious to know how this degenerated from a discussion on two parents allowing their kids to choose their own gender to wanking about gender terms.

Howithurts wrote:

I am curious to know how this degenerated from a discussion on two parents allowing their kids to choose their own gender to wanking about gender terms.

...You're new here, aren't you?

Well, I know enough about this forum to know its topics degenerate sooner or later into mindless arguing, but one would hope some people could at least stay on topic.

/offtopic

Topics about gender tend to degenerate into topics about gender, in my experience.

But irrelevent topics?

Forget it, Jake; it's Chinatown Why God Why.

Somath Cegem wrote:

Sutremaine wrote:

Somath Cegem wrote:

that's my job, as it's you're job to figure out what if anything you want to call the inner working of your brain.

I propose we all call ourselves 'normal' and let the conversation go from there.

This gets my vote.

Normal is boring, this kind of mindset is why tranny jokes in dumb movies are still really fucking shocking and funny

OH MY GOD THAT WOMAN HAS A WHAT NOW?????

Verandering wrote:

Topics about gender tend to degenerate into topics about gender, in my experience.

Yeah, it isn't entirely off-topic, I think.



This whole argument can be boiled down to the following:

Somath is saying that words like "cis" can be, and often are, used to dismiss someone's opinion in the same sense that any other label can be used that way; "what do you know, you're cis" is right on par with "you don't understand this, you're a woman". Neither "cis" nor "woman" is an insult in and of itself, but a description, but both can be used that way.
I don't think Somath is objecting to us thinking he's cissexual, he is objecting to that being used to dismiss his opinion as invalid.

The other side of this wankfest is saying, yeah, that's what it's like all the time, for some of us. Sucks, doesn't it?

So, from where I'm sitting it looks like every single person in this thread is making different aspects of the same point, and I would encourage you all to stop hopping and clucking like a bunch of overexited chickens and realize this, but the truth is that this is precisely what I love about WGW. There are always a bunch of interesting points and perspectives amongst all the screaming, and I enjoy reading them and thinking about them.



The thing about terms like "cissplaining" (and yeah, I agree that it was meant as 'what do you know, you're cis'- I mean, Nil more or less said as much-) is; yes, I am cis. This means I know what a gender identity is because I have one. I also have enough of an imagination to picture myself in a male body and realize how weird and wrong that would feel to me; I know what it's like to go to school scared because someone there might or might not pick on you today, I know what it's like to feel out of place and awkward and weird as a default mindset.

In my case, those things aren't related; I don't know what it's like to feel out of place and be bullied because of my gender identity, but that doesn't mean I'm completely clueless regarding the individual aspects of it.

grmblfjx wrote:

this is precisely what I love about WGW. There are always a bunch of interesting points and perspectives amongst all the screaming, and I enjoy reading them and thinking about them.

Rule ?: Arguments on the internet are always of more use to the people who don't get involved with them.

Howithurts wrote:

But irrelevent topics?

You know... Gender is definitely irrelevant to gender. I can't believe I've never realised it before! How could I have been so stupid all this time.

Have you written any books by chance? There may still be hope for me yet.

Penguin wrote:

You're not debating, you're just trying to wear down the people you're arguing with until they stop arguing. If the facts don't even support your argument, you don't change tack or, God forbid, apologize. You just drop out of the thread without another word. This isn't even something like Chris91's seasonal spaz attacks, this is something you do all the time. So yeah, when you've established a consistent pattern of puerile behavior, you can expect to be dismissed when you engage in it, even when the other poster would otherwise agree with you.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Marry me!

Verandering wrote:

Howithurts wrote:

But irrelevent topics?

You know... Gender is definitely irrelevant to gender. I can't believe I've never realised it before! How could I have been so stupid all this time.

Have you written any books by chance? There may still be hope for me yet.

That's not the point. Discussing gender terms is not what the thread is about. Just because it's vaguely related to the same topic does not mean it's relevant.

You're new to the internet, aren't you?

:<

Penguin wrote:

The second one was trimmed out of a pretty large post. You consistently bury your points under massive piles of histrionic invective. You're basically demanding that people ignore this and address your points, and then complain about your arguments being written off when they simply ignore the whole thing.

Eeesh, I have to agree. I have a hard time figuring out exactly what Cy is arguing for half the time, all I see is a lot of fuss about what she disagrees with. Which is particularly frustrating to me because I agree with her on a lot of points but I cannot figure out how they string together.