Wii have a shooting.

Not to disrupt the rightful accusations against careless gun ownership, but here's some more details—with pictures of the gun and the (probably illegally imported) Wii gun in question.

You see, the problem I have isn't so much the story itself... That's pretty simple: Parent is criminally irrisponsiable, dodges charges. Depressing in itself...

But look at the heading in the link that Myeerah posted, just as an example:

Quote :

3 Year Old Mistakes Gun for Wii Remote, Shoots Herself

The gun discharged while in the hands of a 3-year old... the phrasing makes it look like the child actually took the gun, pointed it at herself and pulled the trigger... Rather than what actualy heppened: "Child grabs gun, gun goes off." There is no evedence of a deliberate action here.

Sure, it's semantics, but the overall effect connects a the video game system directly with a child commiting an act of violence, when in fact there is only very thin evedence that this is the case.

Kids grab stuff... The connection with the Wii peripheral is tenuous at best, but the overall effect is to shift the blame from the accident and place it on video games.

Would this story have been deemed newsworthy were there not a Wii light gun in the house? I honestly don't think so.

theweirdkind wrote:

Dick Powers wrote:

Jesus. wrote:

...technecaly ...

...technecally ...

...arguement ...

...Howver ...

...Consequwently ...

....arguement ...

Spellcheck.net is your friend.

Pfft. I don't know I'm making spelling errors until there's a red squiggly line.

Quote :

I just don't like this whole shooting/killing business that comes along with such weapons.

I know right? Knives are SO much more fun. You get to savor all of the little emotions as they slowly bleed out. Hippy idiots say things about how people who have never directly killed another person has blood on their hands. They don't know the thrill you get from having real blood on your hands. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Malganis wrote:

Dick Powers wrote:

Bezron wrote:

Usually, I cook a side of potatos to go with my children....

Do you boil 'em, mash 'em, and stick 'em in a stew?

The children, or the potatoes?

I'd roast the kids, myself, and put the potatoes on the sides. Don't forget to put apples in their mouths.

You would eat them both, fatty.

[quote="Mikey Go WOOGA"]

Quote :

I just don't like this whole shooting/killing business that comes along with such weapons.

I know right? Knives are SO much more fun. You get to savor all of the little emotions as they slowly bleed out. Hippy idiots say things about how people who have never directly killed another person has blood on their hands. They don't know the thrill you get from having real blood on your hands. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Malganis wrote:

Dick Powers wrote:

Bezron wrote:

Usually, I cook a side of potatos to go with my children....

Do you boil 'em, mash 'em, and stick 'em in a stew?

The children, or the potatoes?

I'd roast the kids, myself, and put the potatoes on the sides. Don't forget to put apples in their mouths.

You would eat them both, fatty.

Harley wrote:

It's good advice to do so, of course, but my point stands - you can't shoot somebody with an unloaded gun.

Many people have shot themselves with unloaded guns.

Mafiosa wrote:

Quote :

good debate

Quote :

Dick Powers

LOL

Eh, I'm still kinda new here. Haven't quite learned who argues points logically and who doesn't.

Jesus. wrote:

Adagio wrote:

Long post

Stoves are for cooking meat. Knives are for cutting and stabbing meat. Chemicals are for killing living things (yes, germs are technecaly living things... technecally) Humans are living meat. Your arguement in that measure is invalid.

Now that's what I'm talking about. Okay, the reason I take issue with you argument there is that, by your use of the word 'meat' in reference to both stoves/knives and humans, you seem to be equating humans with the things we actually use stoves and knives for: food. Which is, quite frankly, a little weird. I still feel the comparison is fallacious: stoves are meant for cooking; chemicals for cleaning; guns for killing. That is the overarching point I was (am?) trying to make.

(Knives are more of a grey area, which is why I haven't really said much about them, but one could still make an argument that steak knives are also meant for a non-violent purpose. Machetes and similar, meanwhile, aren't, which is why I wouldn't particularly want one of those in the house, either.)

Jesus wrote:

If you're talking intent, well, th also depends on the person. I like to make omlettes on my stove and clean mirrors with my cleaning materials. Now, thats because I'm normal. Howver, if I were of that ilk, I could use either of those thngs to kill and maim. Consequwently a kid could use any of these things to harm the self or others with or without intent. So your arguement is invalid.

I don't really agree with this, either. I see the point you're trying to make, but consider: someone who uses a stove or cleaning chemicals to kill or maim is patently not using them for their intended (peaceful) purpose. But a person that uses a gun to shoot the shit out of things is using them for their intended purpose. Saying "guns are tools like stoves because I could use a stove to kill a person" isn't a convincing argument.

Jesus wrote:

The fact of the matter is that you just don't like guns. What you fail to understand (not trying to convert you to the land of gun lovers, but I'm just saying) that guns don't kill people. People WITH guns or anything else on them at the moment kill people. So yeah.

... I hate it when people pull this argument on me. I wasn't trying to argue that guns—as in, guns by themselves—kill people. Of course there has to be a human involved. (Except, apparently, when the gun discharges accidentally in which chase guns apparently can kill people. But, uh, not the point I was trying to make.) But the thing is that guns make it much easier to kill a person, and they make it easier to kill a person by accident. It's very hard to kill a person by waving a bottle of Mr. Clean around. Heck, even if you had a kitchen knife and started waving that around, it'd still be fairly hard to kill a person by accident. (All they'd have to do is stand two paces back, really.) But start waving a gun around and it is very possible for bad things to happen by accident.

So yeah, guns don't kill people, but they do make it incredibly easy to kill people. Especially when they're readily available, and cheap.

(Note: I'm not trying to argue for ZOMG GUN ABOLITION or anything. I just take issue with people comparing them to things like gardening tools or whatever.)

And whilst it's true I don't like guns, uh... actually, there's nothing I want to argue there. I don't like them. But not liking them doesn't make any of what I was trying to say less valid, which is kinda the sense I get from the phrase "[I] just don't like guns".

Edit: Actually, wait. That's not quite true; I do think sniper rifles are pretty cool. Still wouldn't want one in the house, though.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

How the hell do you know what was going through her when she picked up the gun?

The bullet.


I can't believe nobody has said this. Not even Mikey.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

I'm very anti-gun.

But I cannot see why people are blaming Nintendo and not the father.

Nintendo doesn't actually sell guns, Harley. What the hell is your point here.

I'll just adress the major points without quoting, if that's all right.

1. Thanks for pointing out the spelling error. Of course it's BUILDING. Sorry for that.

2. What I clean the house with:

We use cleaners that are not such a hazard to the environment. I know that those don't kill off every last germ but I don't think that's necessary. We're all pretty healthy most of the time, so I guess the house is clean enough.

3. I never said that I don't want to own a gun because that will make my kids turn out to be psychopaths who shoot down the whole school.

I don't want a gun in the house, because its purpose is to kill. (Not cook, not cut, not clean. Sure you can kill with almost anything, technically. But what else can you do with a gun? There is only this one purpose. And I don't like it. I don't want to know how to use a gun. There is no reason for me to do so - and I don't want my kids to grow up around weapons either.)

AND I'm still convinced that you can never be absolutely sure about wether you have REALLY kept it save enough. The risk may be small, but I see no reason to take it in the first place.

Because
A) We don't hunt
B) We don't collect weapons

Both fascinations are beyond me. Just like people who spent whole days in front of the TV to watch other people doing sports. Like Olympic Games. Or this whole fascination about baseball or soccer. I don't know why anyone would be intersted in that - but obviously many people are. Just not me.

4. School Massacres

Honestly, how many of those do you know of, that involved a kitchen knife and/or a self-build bomb made of household chemicals?
How many do you know of that involved illegally acquired guns?
In how many cases were those guns kept in private homes?


Maybe it's a cultural thing. Most people around here try to raise their children to be pacifists. Probably for historical reasons.

spoonhead75 wrote:

AND I'm still convinced that you can never be absolutely sure about wether you have REALLY kept it save enough. The risk may be small, but I see no reason to take it in the first place.

Ok, I wasn't going to post in here but this is completely ridiculous. Of course you can be sure if the gun is safe enough. If you keep the gun and the ammo separate, and the gun is in a gun safe, locked, with you having the only key... it's safe enough. That's how guns are supposed to be stored, in an ideal world, of course, and many MANY gun owners do keep their guns in this fashion. If you aren't convinced that's safe, then you're paranoid. And IMO more than slightly stupid.

spoonhead75 wrote:

I'll just adress the major points without quoting, if that's all right.

1. Thanks for pointing out the spelling error. Of course it's BUILDING. Sorry for that.

Address.

Quote :

2. What I clean the house with:

We use cleaners that are not such a hazard to the environment. I know that those don't kill off every last germ but I don't think that's necessary. We're all pretty healthy most of the time, so I guess the house is clean enough.

Not having your child be infected by E.Coli, Salmonella, and a few more dozen viruses and bacteria that can passed onto their food (most of which is passed from fecal matter which has been shown to all over the average household which are "clean enough") is not necessary?

Quote :

AND I'm still convinced that you can never be absolutely sure about wether you have REALLY kept it save enough. The risk may be small, but I see no reason to take it in the first place.

Once again you have proven yourself to be that epitome of common sense and intelligence.

BTW, it's spelled W-H-E-T-H-E-R.

Quote :

4. School Massacres

Honestly, how many of those do you know of, that involved a kitchen knife and/or a self-build bomb made of household chemicals?
How many do you know of that involved illegally acquired guns?
In how many cases were those guns kept in private homes?

Once again, you only prove to me that you have no clue what you are yammering about.

Quote :

Maybe it's a cultural thing. Most people around here try to raise their children to be pacifists. Probably for historical reasons.

When the zombie apocalypse comes, your country will be the first to fall.

Dick, stop being a dick. Or, do go ahead and turn this into germaphobia wank. Gun wank is just too predictable in a thread like this. Shall I start? I think what Americans are being shown in TV ads is absolutely over the top ridiculous. GERMS ARE GONNA KIIIILL UUUUUS

I don't know where Spoon lives, but here, people don't bleach the shit out of everything either and guess what, I don't know a single person who has ever had E.coli problems, and one who had Salmonella poisoning. From fish left out in the heat all day at a conference.

Ready, set, go!

Dick Powers wrote:

Not having your child be infected by E.Coli, Salmonella, and a few more dozen viruses and bacteria that can passed onto their food (most of which is passed from fecal matter which has been shown to all over the average household which are "clean enough") is not necessary?

Obviously not.
Maybe the climate you live in matters. I live in northern Germany. We've got rainy winters and mediocre summers that don't deserve to be called "summer" at all, most of the time.
Not where Mr. E.Coli and Mrs. Salmonella love to spend their holidays, I suppose.

The human immune system is made to deal with viruses and bacteria.
Ours are obviously working fine. The last case of Salmonella I heard of was 15 years ago. Also due to fish turned bad.

Nobody died.

Dick Powers wrote:

Quote :

4. School Massacres

Honestly, how many of those do you know of, that involved a kitchen knife and/or a self-build bomb made of household chemicals?
How many do you know of that involved illegally acquired guns?
In how many cases were those guns kept in private homes?

Once again, you only prove to me that you have no clue what you are yammering about.

In other words: You don't know of any kitchen-knife massacres either.

Dick Powers wrote:

When the zombie apocalypse comes, your country will be the first to fall.

If you say so... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

grmblfjx wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

How the hell do you know what was going through her when she picked up the gun?

The bullet.


I can't believe nobody has said this. Not even Mikey.

I thought it immediately. I just didn't post because, well, I wondered if it made me an even more terrible person than I originally assumed I was.

The fact that the Wii gun is apparently quite realistic is just another pile of shit coming out of the bull.

Who do they think BOUGHT that realistic light gun? What, do they think the three-year-old dialled China and asked for it?

Did the makers of the light gun go and load a gun and put it on the table? No, it was the father. And the fact that they had a realistic light-gun in the house as well just makes his action EVEN MORE FUCKING STUPID because it just makes it EASIER for the kid to mistake the real gun for a toy.

Basically, it comes down to an irrational hatred of what a gun is "intended to do." As if crafted with malice in the foremost thoughts of the unholy gunsmith, barrel hammer-forged and quenched in the tears of infants, given the dark blessing of Khorne and primed to bring ill fortune and mishap to whoever is foolish enough to purchase one. Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne (BOOM HEADSHOT)!

This is a fundamentally absurd notion, even without the exaggeration above. There is no life without death, for one thing. You can push it to the fringes as much as you like, but at the end of the day that chicken dinner you're enjoying used to be clucking about amiably pecking at feed not too long ago.

For another, the notion that GUNS ARE FOR KILLING AND ARE THEREFORE BAD is ridiculously naive, as is the idea that the world would be instantly less violent if guns were to miraculously disappear overnight. It would actually get a lot worse, as it became infinitely easier for the young and physically strong to take whatever they want from virtually whoever they want. Grandma in a wheelchair with a .38 has a much better chance against an attacker than just Grandma in a wheelchair. You'd see the police force depopulate as anyone not big and strong enough to fight someone on a regular basis would be killed or drop out. And even if the cops are the only people exempted from this magical banishment of firearms, as the saying goes, when the seconds count the police are only minutes away.

Hide your head in the sand if you must, but don't project your fears onto others.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

I'm very anti-gun.

Megatron says he's quitting your fetish.

grmblfjx wrote:

Dick, stop being a dick. Or, do go ahead and turn this into germaphobia wank. Gun wank is just too predictable in a thread like this. Shall I start? I think what Americans are being shown in TV ads is absolutely over the top ridiculous. GERMS ARE GONNA KIIIILL UUUUUS

I don't know where Spoon lives, but here, people don't bleach the shit out of everything either and guess what, I don't know a single person who has ever had E.coli problems, and one who had Salmonella poisoning. From fish left out in the heat all day at a conference.

Ready, set, go!

spoonhead75 wrote:

Obviously not.
Maybe the climate you live in matters. I live in northern Germany. We've got rainy winters and mediocre summers that don't deserve to be called "summer" at all, most of the time.
Not where Mr. E.Coli and Mrs. Salmonella love to spend their holidays, I suppose.

There is doo-doo all over your house.

Quote :

In other words: You don't know of any kitchen-knife massacres either.

In other words; You don't know of any incidences where a child shoots themselves with an unloaded gun.

Penguin wrote:

This is a fundamentally absurd notion, even without the exaggeration above. There is no life without death, for one thing. You can push it to the fringes as much as you like, but at the end of the day that chicken dinner you're enjoying used to be clucking about amiably pecking at feed not too long ago.

Hey, funny - I knew this would come up.
And it's absolutely not the point.
I have no problem with hunting or killing animals.
I just don't want to do it myself.

Penguin wrote:

For another, the notion that GUNS ARE FOR KILLING AND ARE THEREFORE BAD is ridiculously naive,

And the

Quote :

AND ARE THEREFORE BAD

part is entirely your own interpretation.
I certainly didn't say that GUNS ARE BAD.

They're made for killing. And I don't want to kill. Therefore I have no use for a gun. Especially not in my private home.

Penguin wrote:

Long paragraph why a gun will protect you from the evil meanies

Kind of proves my point very nicely.

Owning a gun makes only sense, if you are prepared to use it.
I wouldn't want that. If that means I get shot - so be it.
I don't think my chances would be much better if I was armed. If anything whoever was attacking me would probably shoot me right away to prevent me from doing the same thing.

Even if he wasn't, I wouldn't want to shoot anyone.

And if I was into hunting and had my stuff locked up safely in my own home - how would I get to it in time if I was attacked?

Penguin wrote:

Hide your head in the sand if you must, but don't project your fears onto others.

I'm not projecting anything.
I simply stated, that I don't want to own a gun, because I have no need for one. Because I wouldn't want to use it.

How is that projecting fears?

I'm obviously not the one who's scared of being attacked and in need of a gun for my own protection.

Really, what's your problem with me stating that I don't want to own a gun?
Just like I don't want to watch baseball?

Yes, I have my reasons and they are absolutely irrelevant to you.
I'm fine with that. I know that 'happiness is a warm gun' and I don't expect anyone to throw their precious guns away.

All I said was, that I would be very uncomfortable with having a gun in my own home.

Quote :

There is doo-doo all over your house.

We'll battle them with macrophage, antibodies and natural killer cells. We're not scared.

Quote :

Quote :

In other words: You don't know of any kitchen-knife massacres either.

In other words; You don't know of any incidences where a child shoots themselves with an unloaded gun.

True. Never claimed that, you know?

grmblfjx wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

How the hell do you know what was going through her when she picked up the gun?

The bullet.


I can't believe nobody has said this. Not even Mikey.

I [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] you more than I've ever [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]ed you before. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Spoony wrote:

Maybe it's a cultural thing. Most people around here try to raise their
children to be pacifists. Probably for historical reasons.

Where do you live? India? Magical Walking MegaPussy Land?

. . .

Oh wait, GERMANY? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *gasp* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Tell me, what part of German history lends you to pacifism? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Shit, the only three good things about Germany is the alcohol, the Saras, and the violence.

I think spoonhead's problem is with the way people keep twisting her words and radicalizing her argument, more than getting mad over, uh... not having an irrational fear of guns. (Sure, why not.)

By the by, just in case anyone gets the impression: I'm not trying to argue that ZOMG GUNS ARE TEH EBUL!!1!1!!one. Guns are just as intrinsically evil as, say, broadswords are. Nor am I in any way arguing for total gun abolition (though I do think control on the sale of guns and ammo is absurdly lax in the US).

The only point I'm trying to make is that guns (like broadswords)are tools for killing other humans, and that comparing them to a tool with a peaceful purpose like a rake—or, yes, a stove—is ludicrous.

(Oh. And it's not like guns are some otherworldy, foreign thing here, either—just by the by. There's a shop that sells weapons on the block where I live. It's where I bought my pepperspray. :D)

spoonhead75 wrote:

True. Never claimed that, you know?

According to you all guns have the potential to kill, even unloaded ones that are safely locked away.

Adagio wrote:

I think spoonhead's problem is with the way people keep twisting her words and radicalizing her argument, more than getting mad over, uh... not having an irrational fear of guns. (Sure, why not.)

You must have missed the part where she said just knowing that there is a gun in a house fills her with fear.

I think she said it'd freak her out.

But yeah, I forgot about that. miBad.

grmblfjx wrote:

Dick, stop being a dick. Or, do go ahead and turn this into germaphobia wank. Gun wank is just too predictable in a thread like this. Shall I start? I think what Americans are being shown in TV ads is absolutely over the top ridiculous. GERMS ARE GONNA KIIIILL UUUUUS

I don't know where Spoon lives, but here, people don't bleach the shit out of everything either and guess what, I don't know a single person who has ever had E.coli problems, and one who had Salmonella poisoning. From fish left out in the heat all day at a conference.

Ready, set, go!

This is so. My family generally just wipes surfaces like counters and tables down with a wet cloth (wet with water). We use a sponge and dish soap (and rarely a little bleach) for our dishes. We seem to do okay. I actually think it's probably more harmful to constantly clean with harsh cleaning/antibacterial solutions, as it would kill off weaker bacteria and leave behind only the strongest and most resistant. Kind of like how hospitals are actually very dangerous now when it comes to killer, drug-resistant bacteria and viruses - comes from all the use of anti-biotics.

Penguin wrote:

Basically, it comes down to an irrational hatred of what a gun is "intended to do." As if crafted with malice in the foremost thoughts of the unholy gunsmith, barrel hammer-forged and quenched in the tears of infants, given the dark blessing of Khorne and primed to bring ill fortune and mishap to whoever is foolish enough to purchase one. Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne (BOOM HEADSHOT)!

That is the most metal thing ever. *headbangs*

On-topic, my father owns a couple rifles. Honestly, I've always felt safer knowing that if we ever needed one of them, they're there - with all the economic troubles, I have become more concerned about break-ins, though as far as I know, nothing like that has happened in the (rural) area where I live. And my father owning guns has come in handy - once, sadly, when we had to put my mortally wounded pet cat down and a trip to the vet, even the closest one, would have meant more suffering for her and a possible danger for us.