Well, Now We Know Why RTD Came to America

I briefly considered putting this on the news thread, but it's not really news perse (entertainment news, maybe), so I decided to put it here.

I belong to a couple of Torchwood and Dr. Who-related Yahoo! Groups, and they've been buzzing about this since I logged on around 6:30. Various articles were bandied about, but I decided to use this one, since it seems the least biased as far as just giving the facts go (a couple were from the BBC, who already have their knickers in a major twist).

Fox Reading U.S. Version of 'Torchwood'

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Huge news for sci-fi fans: Fox is developing a stateside version of the U.K. hit series “Torchwood.”

The project is from BBC Worldwide Prods., with original series creator Russell Davies writing the script.

A more straight-faced spinoff of “Doctor Who,” “Torchwood” is about a covert group that investigates and fights alien activity. Two series aired domestically on BBC America as well as last year’s well reviewed stand-alone miniseries, “Children of Earth,” which broke all ratings records for the network. (If you're a fan of serious sci fi such as "Battlestar Galatica" and haven't seen "Children of Earth," rent it. You don't need to know anything about the series. And I know the previews for "Torchwood" can look silly. Trust me, it's terrific. Like "24" with aliens).

"24" with aliens? Is that supposed to be a recommendation?

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Unlike U.S. adaptations that have gone awry, “Torchwood” fans can take comfort that the original producing team is on board. In addition to Davies, exec producers include Davies’ producing partner Julie Gardner (former head of drama at BBC Wales for the show’s first season) and Jane Tranter (another BBC vet, now exec VP programming and production at BBC Worldwide Prods. in the U.S.).

I KNEW there was a reason that sneaky bastard was so anxious to get out of the UK! It was so he could come over here and start destroying American versions of his shows!

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Also, some of the current cast — most likely John Barrowman, who plays the immortal Capt. Jack Harkness — might star if Fox orders “Torchwood” to pilot.

Given the number of times John Barrowman has openly stated in interviews that he much prefers living in the UK, due to their openness where homosexuality is concerned, I'm not sure there's enough money in RTD's budget to tempt him back to the US. Also, the man's a lot more popular in the UK than he ever was in the US; he's got a lot more visibility, is involved in a lot more projects, and I'd wonder if he'd be willing to just drop them and leave his husband behind because Uncle Rusty's decided he wants a chance to ruin Torchwood AGAIN.

The only remaining cast member besides Barrowman is Eve Myles, who plays Gwen. Okay, maybe we can consider the actor who plays Rhys, but beyond him and the stunt people who do the Weevils, there IS no other cast. They killed Ianto off in COE, remember?

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As for the new show’s plot, the U.S. version will contain a global story line compared to the more localized sensibility of the first two BBC seasons.

But...but I LIKED the localized sensibility. I liked the idea of cannibal clans in Wales and aliens in Cardiff. Every town in the US that has at least 50 people living in it, half of them claim to have been abducted by aliens at some point. I liked the Welsh being so casual about the looniness around them.

And then, they spring THIS little bit of news on us:

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Tranter might try to reboot “Doctor Who” for U.S. audiences while departing “Doctor Who” star David Tennant stars in NBC’s pilot “Rex Is Not Your Lawyer.”

Needless to say, this isn't going over well with the majority of the fans, British or American. Someone suggested it might work if they didn't use Torchwood 3 (which was completely trashed at the end of COE and therefore no longer exists), and set it in Torchwood 4; the branch that Jack remarked in the first episode had gone missing, but he was sure it'd turn up sooner or later. I don't see why we'd want (or need) two versions of Dr. Who-the British version has sufficed perfectly well for American fans since the show started, and I'm not sure the concept of Dr. Who would even WORK if he were American.

Most of the people who comment don't seem any more enthused by the idea than I find myself. I had a hard enough time dealing with the deaths of Owen and Tosh. RTD needs to realize that most people who started watching Torchwood didn't expect a show that was similar to Dr. Who, where the cast changed every two years. Yes, we know working for Torchwood is dangerous, but is it too much to ask for a LITTLE stability? I'm used to the Doctor changing faces on a regular basis-I've been watching him do it since I was 12. Torchwood was only on for two seasons (I don't consider COE a season, I consider it character assasination), and what's the point of a show where you ensure we get attached to the main characters and then kill all but two of them off? (and one of the two can't die anyway, while the other one's a pregnant woman?).

Mark my word, if he gets his way, we'll have Gwack as canon by the end of the first episode.

Lolwut?

OK, I've never seen Torchwood, but. . . why? If anything, at this point RTD should have a blank check from the BBC. Why bring it to the States? And if he must bring it to the States, what in God's name possessed him to approach FOX? Has he never heard of their track record?

How would an international Torchwood work, anyways? The only really multi-national alien-dealing-with force is UNIT, though The End of Time revealed there are PMCs that at least make forays into this field.

. . . actually, an American alien-hunting PMC would be sort of awesome. If you could avoid devolving into political commentary or "who's sleeping with who and who knows."

gaijinguy wrote:

Lolwut?

OK, I've never seen Torchwood, but. . . why? If anything, at this point RTD should have a blank check from the BBC. Why bring it to the States? And if he must bring it to the States, what in God's name possessed him to approach FOX? Has he never heard of their track record?

How would an international Torchwood work, anyways? The only really multi-national alien-dealing-with force is UNIT, though The End of Time revealed there are PMCs that at least make forays into this field.

. . . actually, an American alien-hunting PMC would be sort of awesome. If you could avoid devolving into political commentary or "who's sleeping with who and who knows."

A lot of people have remarked about Fox's track record, especially as far as sci-fic shows go. And I'm just SURE they'd be thrilled with an organization lead by an omnisexual alien from the 51st century who will basically hit on anything that's breathing (the fact that Barrowman is openly gay likely won't help).

And it was shown in one of Ten's later episodes (The Stolen Earth), that an American version of UNIT exists, and apparently operates under the same charter as the one in the UK. It was also shown that there are UNIT branches in places as far-flung as Africa and China. I suspect UNIT probably has branches in every halfway civilized nation, with the possible exception of Antarctica (and they might have one there too).

So technically, there'd be no need for an American version of Torchwood, because Torchwood's main focus (as was mentioned in the the first episode) was always The Doctor, whom they initially viewed as an enemy. Torchwood One was completely destroyed at the Battle of Canary Wharf, when them dicking around with some sort of dimensional control allowed both Cybermen AND Dalek's to break through into present day Earth and start converting people. The Doctor stopped it, but that's how he lost Rose. Torchwood 3 was based in Cardiff and run by Jack, there was a Torchwood Two in Scotland, run by a strange little man Jack referred to as Archie, and, as I mentioned, Torchwood 4 had gone missing at some point, but he was sure it'd turn up sooner or later.

The point is, Torchwood never existed OUTSIDE the UK. It was founded there (by Queen Victoria, oddly enough), and unlike UNIT, it never became international.

I honestly think that the popularity of Torchwood and David Tenant's turn as the 10th Doctor has gone to RTD's head. I've read several interviews with him in which he comes off as very arrogant, very convinced of his own genius, and unshakable in his belief he can do no wrong. Tell that to the several hundred thousand fans traumatized by the totally needless deaths of Ianto and Jack's grandson in COE. "Hysterical women' my ass...

Rabid Badger wrote:

But...but I LIKED the localized sensibility. I liked the idea of cannibal clans in Wales and aliens in Cardiff.

OH GOD YES. That was all part of the silly charm, god damn it.

Rabid Badger wrote:

Torchwood was only on for two seasons (I don't consider COE a season, I consider it character assasination), and what's the point of a show where you ensure we get attached to the main characters and then kill all but two of them off?

Well, I don't know. Season 1 of Torchwood was all over the place and never really hooked me that much. Season 2 was, in my opinion, pretty awsome, and COE was completely unexpected and rather daring. Overall, I liked it and don't think I'd ever want it to be retconned. Jack It broke my heart and I love it for that.

However, "Why" is a really good fucking question. As is "why Fox?" Bah.
My expectations are low: this will be terrible and a lot of people will not consider it canon, and new fans will climb along and there shall be ever more fuel to all the Whoverse wars so that long after mankind is past it's prime... We're still arguing about Whoverse.

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However, "Why" is a really good fucking question. As is "why Fox?" Bah.
My expectations are low: this will be terrible and a lot of people will not consider it canon, and new fans will climb along and there shall be ever more fuel to all the Whoverse wars so that long after mankind is past it's prime... We're still arguing about Whoverse.

I'm still trying to figure out why Fox as well. Unless he knows nothing at all about American television (which is entirely possible). But even then, you'd think he'd have done his homework on their history of sci-fi not working. Excluding the X-Files, and even it's most ardent fans agree it should've ended about ten seasons earlier than it did.

Maybe it has something to do with the British television community being relatively small and insular? Over there, he's a big guy. Here in the US, Dr. Who (and Torchwood) have always been pretty much cult programs. They've got a sizable and loyal following, but if you were to stop random strangers on the street and ask them if they've ever seen 'Dr. Who,' they might recognize the name, but the chances of them actually having seen it or following it on a regular basis wouldn't be that big. He's coming from a country that basically has two major channels to one where our local cable company has roughly 800+ (and half of those are HD versions of channels available in non-HD-the rest are PPV).

I think he has this idea he's going to take America by storm just because he's a well known and respected figure in British TV. American TV simply doesn't work like British TV, and I imagine the majority of executives here have no idea who he is or what he's done that would warrant them spending their money on his silly shows.

I just don't see him pulling it off. Torchwood had a huge American fanbase before COE (the operative word being 'had'). Most of the American fans I know wouldn't watch an American version of Torchwood even if it had John Barrowman in it. And I can't imagine any American Doctor Who fans wanting a US version of Dr. Who. Dr. Who is something that's uniquely British. It's like the idea of a British version of MASH. They could likely do it, but I doubt they could do it well.

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(If you're a fan of serious sci fi such as "Battlestar Galatica" and haven't seen "Children of Earth," rent it. You don't need to know anything about the series. And I know the previews for "Torchwood" can look silly. Trust me, it's terrific. Like "24" with aliens).

Has this person ever actually watched Torchwood? It's more like silly Doctor Who fanfiction and that's what makes it awesome.

At least if it's Fox it will be plopped in the Friday Night Slot Of Death and die quickly and quietly (why yes, I'm still bitter about Dollhouse).

Okay, first of all, one bit of continuity. UNIT is an international organization. [In the original series, it was explicitly under the United Nations, changed to UNified in the new series at the UN's request.] So that's why it has a presence in the US, UK, Germany, and other countries shown. Torchwood, though, was started by Queen Victoria to act in the interests of Great Britain, which means that, while the two organizations were both in operation, they were rivals. The continuity question then becomes why a specifically British agency would go international, especially given that UNIT is still around.

I'm somewhat more optimistic about the Fox angle, because people tend to forget that there are two sides to that reputation. Yes, Fox tends to treat quirky, original, or genre shows somewhat poorly after commissioning them, but at least they commission them. The other three bigs don't really handle theirs any better, but they have a lot fewer of them in the first place.

Rabid Badger wrote:

Excluding the X-Files, and even it's most ardent fans agree it should've ended about ten seasons earlier than it did.

That's a bit harsh, innit? "I loved that show, but it should've finished a year before it started!"

I have never understood why any program has to be 'remade'. It's not like it's in a foreign language, it's just British. So what? I don't demand a British version of The Simpsons or House, or any other good program from America, Australia, etc...

Seule wrote:

I have never understood why any program has to be 'remade'. It's not like it's in a foreign language, it's just British. So what? I don't demand a British version of The Simpsons or House, or any other good program from America, Australia, etc...

They might be trying to copy the success of the American version of The Office but doing it very very wrong.

The Office demonstrates one of the key reasons US networks go with remakes instead of just airing the original. The entire run of the UK version was fourteen episodes. Last season alone, the US series had twenty-six. The American broadcast networks need more product than most foreign series provide.

ZoZo wrote:

At least if it's Fox it will be plopped in the Friday Night Slot Of Death and die quickly and quietly (why yes, I'm still bitter about Dollhouse).

Want to go throw something at their building? I was thinking bricks.

ZoZo wrote:

why yes, I'm still bitter about Dollhouse

That's not impressive at all. I am still bitter about Space: Above and Beyond.

ZoZo wrote:

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(If you're a fan of serious sci fi such as "Battlestar Galatica" and haven't seen "Children of Earth," rent it. You don't need to know anything about the series. And I know the previews for "Torchwood" can look silly. Trust me, it's terrific. Like "24" with aliens).

Has this person ever actually watched Torchwood? It's more like silly Doctor Who fanfiction and that's what makes it awesome.

Hell, it IS silly Doctor Who fanfiction. Literally. That's arguably why it went all to shit at the end--RTD got BNF syndrome and started falling into utterly batshit, complicated drama rather than the formula people were actually enjoying. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all for thinking outside of the box and playing with the toys you've been given, but...yeah, we all saw how that turned out.

RTD reaaaally needs to take a few steps back and, well, check himself lest he wreck himself. Like an out-of-control BNF, he's forgotten that Doctor Who and its trappings are a shared canon passed down from person to person over the years and is declaring himself a fandom god.

And yeah, no, there's no way he's snagging Barrowman. There just isn't. Seriously.

As a regular, maybe not, but if it's just a recurring role, why wouldn't he be open to it?

Lysander wrote:

ZoZo wrote:

why yes, I'm still bitter about Dollhouse

That's not impressive at all. I am still bitter about Space: Above and Beyond.

Yes yes, we get it, we're all angry about one thing or another.
On topic, don't people need the BBC's blessing to make a show about Dr Who type stuff or am I missing something? Because I very very much doubt the BBC are gonna green flag a different network making it's own version of an on going* show. It's just daft.

*The Office had long since died off, now if fuckers could just stop talking about it I'd be a happy man.

I AM BITTER ABOUT BITTERNESS

Also Arrested Development. Can the British remake that so I can have more episodes?

Somath Cegem wrote:

On topic, don't people need the BBC's blessing to make a show about Dr Who type stuff or am I missing something?

To make Doctor Who, yes, they'd need the BBC in on it, which is why the the speculation (and that's all it is) mentions Tranter instead of Davies. Torchwood, though, is RTD's baby, so he'd have more power.

Why no, I have nothing to be bitter about because of FOX. God dammit.

Seriously, they might as well call any series on FOX I like "Soon to be Cancelled".

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Seriously, they might as well call any series on FOX I like "Soon to be Cancelled to Make Room for More Family Guy and Simpsons Episodes".

Fixed that for ya.

Rabid Badger wrote:

The point is, Torchwood never existed OUTSIDE the UK. It was founded there (by Queen Victoria, oddly enough), and unlike UNIT, it never became international.

Well, never existed outside the British Empire would be more accurate (if you take the radio plays to be cannon) as there was Torchwood India. So, maybe Torchwood Canada or Torchwood Australia would work - we're still part of the Commonwealth afterall.

Torchwood Australia would be awesome. It would be like proper Torchwood with more sex and swearing.

ZoZo wrote:

Torchwood Australia would be awesome. It would be like proper Torchwood with more sex and swearing.

Pretty much, yeah. Aliens might explain some of the odd animals like the bynyip and drop-bear.

Fighting aliens in stubbies, singlets and thongs.

Mafiosa wrote:

I AM BITTER ABOUT BITTERNESS

Also Arrested Development. Can the British remake that so I can have more episodes?

Arrested Development translated into British TV would be good for maybe ten minutes of footage. It would be a hilarious ten minutes, but still.

Torchwood India or Australia would be awesome. Torchwood Canada would be good, but only as pure comedy- the creature from Waters of Mars infects the maple syrup supply or something.

Delcat wrote:

Hell, it IS silly Doctor Who fanfiction. Literally.
That's arguably why it went all to shit at the end--RTD got BNF
syndrome and started falling into utterly batshit, complicated drama
rather than the formula people were actually enjoying. I mean, don't
get me wrong, I'm all for thinking outside of the box and playing with
the toys you've been given, but...yeah, we all saw how that turned out.

RTD
reaaaally needs to take a few steps back and, well, check himself lest
he wreck himself. Like an out-of-control BNF, he's forgotten that
Doctor Who and its trappings are a shared canon passed down from person
to person over the years and is declaring himself a fandom god.

First: What's a BNF?

Second:
Totally agree on the "RTD needs some boundaries" thing. That's why the
9th Doctor's season was so good (well, that and having Christopher
Eccleston instead of a guinea pig with ADHD): the team wasn't sure if
the show was going to last, so they had to play it relatively safe,
because they knew that if they got too self-indulgent and alienated
viewers, that's it; the Doctor Who revival would be stillborn, and
they'd need to find new jobs.

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And yeah, no, there's no way he's snagging Barrowman. There just isn't. Seriously.

Well, not cost-effectively at any rate.

I want to see Torchwood India, with Bollywood styling! They could have lots of tight T-shirts for the male characters and midriff-baring outfits for the women, but the sex scenes would have to be replaced by big musical numbers. Also, part (or all) of Torchwood India could be (formerly) Torchwood UK's call centre.

"Good morning sir, would you care to purchase alien weevil insurance?"
"Who is this? How did you get this number?"

I don't have much to add on the WTFness of doing an American Dr. Who or Torchwood spinoff. Surely the Britishness of the franchise constitutes a large part of its appeal across the pond?

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Arrested Development translated into British TV would be good for maybe ten minutes of footage. It would be a hilarious ten minutes, but still.

They could be called "The Bluthingtons". [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Okay, I admit it, I just want to hear the British versions of the chicken noises.