Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 35 Location : Maryland
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 1:27 pm
He was the King's Hand, which is basically the King's babysitter. Though even with Ned trying, Robert is never going to listen.
The old Hand, the dead one, fostered Ned and the king, before he was king. When Robert took the throne, he married the blonde. Ned had to marry Cat, because she was actually betrothed to his older brother. When his brother was murdered, the marriage fell to him. He has grown to love her since. The old Hand married Cat's older sister. Robert, the king, was supposed to marry Ned's sister, but she was murdered in the war by the old king.
Dany and Viserys' mother died in childbirth. She was the old queen. She ran like all hell when the armies came, over to the Continent. So her older brother has been the only family she's ever known, and he's always been abusive to her. He's about 8 years older. Actually, their family married brother to sister, to keep the Dragon line pure. She always assumed she would marry him, and then he used her as payment. (She didn't really want to marry him either) She was alone and without an example of strength in her entire life, so she thought that how her brother treated her was normal.
Yeah, the sex is probably going to die down as we move more towards the politics and power struggles, which is actually the more interesting bits of the books. Also the Wall. Anything to do with the Wall.
I agree with you about the dye jobs. For all of their budget they could have done a much better job and I'm really disappointed with that. Looks like they spent more on sets. (Which totally look awesome)
rae Contributor
Join date : 2009-06-10 Location : computer chair
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 2:15 pm
I read something that finally struck on what was bothering me about Catelyn Stark in the first episode. She's getting back to 'herself,' thankfully. Click me. In the first episode, they showed her intense dislike for Jon without giving any context as to why. This paragraph sums it up the best:
Spoiler:
Quote :
Her ambitions for her family are gone, her desire to see honors, honorably won (as opposed to the other mother of the series, Cersei, who wants honors any way she can get them), given to her deserving husband and her beautiful daughter simply no longer part of her character. She is, for lack of a better word, a homebody on the TV show. The prickly, complex motivations that make her the most realistically-portrayed character in the novels, the steadfast loyalty and the steel spine and the boundless love for her family seem reduced, dulled down, until she’s now much more of a typical, loyal housewife who’s afraid to see the chicks leave the roost and who has some sort of thing against the bastard son.
Also, I'm intensely pissed at what's been done with Drogo. I was sick at my stomach at the end of the first episode, because while he did say, 'No,' while getting it on with Daenerys in the book, it was a question. I held my breath at the start of the next episode, expecting them to show her shouting, 'No,' and him stopping. But no. No, they have stripped all complexity away from the character, and turned him into the stereotypical 'rapist savage warrior.' Not only does this smack of racist bullshit, however well disguised (which I'm going to not rant about because it would take pages), it also makes a whole hell of a lot of Daenerys' subsequent character development make... no sense at fucking all. In the books, he supported her in becoming a strong woman. He gave her the opportunity to grow, and encouraged it. He was not threatened by her telling him no. Because of this, it made sense that she did grow strong and self-reliant. Now? Yeah, they're showing her growing stronger, but the impetus is gone. I'm seeing nothing to explain it, unless it's just not having her brother around so much.
e: Overall, I am liking the show, but what's been done to these two characters does rather put a damper on my enjoyment. Now I'm looking forward to things that happen later to Drogo and I shouldn't.
kleine_kat Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-11 Age : 44 Location : Lower Countries
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 3:11 pm
Lapin wrote:
summary
Aha, that explains a lot (without me having to look things up and get hit by spoilers ). Thanks!
I'll probably watch the second ep this weekend. And then Doctor Who for the warm fuzzies.
Lapin Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 35 Location : Maryland
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 3:16 pm
Yeah, you're right, I don't understand why they changed it. There was an odd sweetness to it in the book. He knew she was frightened, and did his best to take away the fear.
As for Jon, it was kind of explained in the book that her hatred stemmed from Ned's treatment of him. Instead of hiding him away, he took him to his home and treats him like a son. It's also the proof that at one point, in their first year of marriage, before there was any love between them, Ned was disloyal. Her hatred is actually kind of irrational, and made me have a certain dislike for her. It's not Jon's fault, but she treats him like a leper, instead of being angry at Ned.
Spoiler:
Except I don't think Jon is Ned's son. I think he's Robert and Ned's sister's son, born out of wedlock without Robert's knowledge. I've only read the first book though, so what do I know?
Maximilia My spoon is too big.
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 50 Location : South Dakota
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 5:16 pm
Lapin wrote:
Yeah, you're right, I don't understand why they changed it. There was an odd sweetness to it in the book. He knew she was frightened, and did his best to take away the fear.
As for Jon, it was kind of explained in the book that her hatred stemmed from Ned's treatment of him. Instead of hiding him away, he took him to his home and treats him like a son. It's also the proof that at one point, in their first year of marriage, before there was any love between them, Ned was disloyal. Her hatred is actually kind of irrational, and made me have a certain dislike for her. It's not Jon's fault, but she treats him like a leper, instead of being angry at Ned.
Spoiler:
Except I don't think Jon is Ned's son. I think he's Robert and Ned's sister's son, born out of wedlock without Robert's knowledge. I've only read the first book though, so what do I know?
Spoiler:
The most popular theory (and I agree with this) is that Jon is Lyanna (Ned's sister) and Rhaegar Targaryen's son, which he reportedly raped her time and time again. I don't think that was the case, although it still could very well be.
And yes, I agree with the disgust over the changing of the scene between Khal Drogo and Dany. That was way more rapey than the books, as in the book, it ended with her saying "yes". Not sure about the assessment of Catelyn's character because I didn't like her in the books anyway.
rae Contributor
Join date : 2009-06-10 Location : computer chair
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 9:42 pm
I didn't like Cat in the books, but I did find her to be an interesting character. Thankfully, she seems to be getting to be a fully-fleshed out character again, and I'm liking her more in the show than the books.
In the books, I always figured Jon was really Ned's son, with a woman he'd have married had he not been already with Cat. In the show, I'm guessing they are setting him up to be Robert's son. After all, he's dark of hair and eyes like Robert, and Robert's dark hair is a plot point in the books. I think they'd have bleached the actor's hair if they were setting him up as Rhaegar's spawn.
I'm separating out the show and the books, because there's no telling how close they'll keep to the plot. Look how different the later seasons of True Blood are from the books.
Maximilia My spoon is too big.
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 50 Location : South Dakota
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 05, 2011 11:57 pm
Yes, but the later seasons of True Blood are way better than the books, heh. I don't know if GRRM would let them take that much license with his books, since it's not really open ended like the Sookie Stackhouse novels... where things can move and evolve there since the series doesn't have a definitive end. There IS a definitive end in Martin's... but it's not published yet. So I'm wondering how they're going to finish the series... yeah. I bet they think it's going to get cancelled before they get past 5 seasons, heh.
Lapin Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 35 Location : Maryland
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Mon May 09, 2011 4:00 pm
WTF, why is Littlefinger telling Sansa that story about the Hound? It was supposed to be the Hound confiding in her when he was drunk and annoyed. This was supposed to be a building block for their weird relationship. I fail to understand the change writers. There had better be an explanation.
I was really surprised that the three-eyed raven did not suck graphic wise. I thought for sure that was something they would screw up. Something like that can look really fake if they don't put in the effort.
Also, ha fucking ha on Dany's part. Good girl, you tell him. You should have let the blood rider take his fucking ear. Maybe he would learn faster that way.
Maximilia My spoon is too big.
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 50 Location : South Dakota
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 12, 2011 8:13 pm
Oh, Lapin, I completely understand about the WTFing over Littlefinger telling Sansa that. I had an extra moment of ROFL when he said not to tell anyone, and she promised... but Arya and Septa Mordane were right there leaning over to listen in.
I do understand SOME changes, but that one completely neutered Sansa's and Sandor's "relationship" (well, how they relate to each other) from the start. Unless they do something else with that....
Also, next episode we get to see Bronn! I can't wait! Although I have the sneaking suspicion he was the guy who took Tyrion's coin in the tavern. I hope not. He looked... very old and not Bronn-like, who was supposed to be lean, and dark, and dangerous. Old guy just looked old.
Malganis Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-06-10
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 18, 2011 7:10 pm
rae wrote:
Also, I'm intensely pissed at what's been done with Drogo. I was sick at my stomach at the end of the first episode, because while he did say, 'No,' while getting it on with Daenerys in the book, it was a question. I held my breath at the start of the next episode, expecting them to show her shouting, 'No,' and him stopping. But no. No, they have stripped all complexity away from the character, and turned him into the stereotypical 'rapist savage warrior.' Not only does this smack of racist bullshit, however well disguised (which I'm going to not rant about because it would take pages), it also makes a whole hell of a lot of Daenerys' subsequent character development make... no sense at fucking all. In the books, he supported her in becoming a strong woman. He gave her the opportunity to grow, and encouraged it. He was not threatened by her telling him no. Because of this, it made sense that she did grow strong and self-reliant. Now? Yeah, they're showing her growing stronger, but the impetus is gone. I'm seeing nothing to explain it, unless it's just not having her brother around so much.
e: Overall, I am liking the show, but what's been done to these two characters does rather put a damper on my enjoyment. Now I'm looking forward to things that happen later to Drogo and I shouldn't.
Honestly, why not look forward to them? Drogo was a fucking horrible person in the first book, even with his (IMHO, completely out-of-character) 'love' for his barely-pubescent child bride. Just look at what
Spoiler:
his entire khalasar does to the Lamb People later on in the book -- his warriors commit wholesale rape, torture, slaughter, and enslavement against a people who are explicitly stated to be strict pacifists who herd sheep. His warriors rape girls on top of piles of corpses -- dead people who the girls knew. They torture children with whips and then drag them off to be slaves, forever. Does Drogo stop this? Does Dany try to stop him from attacking the Lamb People at all? No, she just happens to save a few (a few) women from being raped any more than they already were horribly raped. She saves them by making them her slaves (and then slaps one of them, a rape victim, when the rape victim dares to point out the obvious (that Drogo, the person who butchered her people, is dying).
Also, there's absolutely NO thought on Dany's part, later on, that hey, maybe her late husband wasn't all that since, gee, he actually did cause a lot of misery during his lifetime. Absolutely no reflection at all.
Drogo was a horrible individual, a fucking sadist who aided and abetted (and probably committed his share of) rape, murder, and torture, and if he hadn't have had some sort of weird love for Dany that's completely and utterly at odds with everything we've been shown of his personality and Dothaki culture we'd rightly view him as being a non-Westeros Gregor Clegane and correspondingly hate him. Since there's literally no difference between the way Gregor and his band of vicious, plunder-hungry bastards act and the way Drogo and his much larger band of vicious, plunder-hungry bastards act.
Sorry for the rant, I just fucking hate the Dothraki, and I think that Dany's 'love' for their culture and her husband is a crock of utter shit. What the fuck is there to love?
Lapin Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 35 Location : Maryland
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 18, 2011 8:28 pm
(Shrugs) He gave her something no one else ever had: power. Dany was weak and pushed around all of her sad lonely life. She just wanted to be left alone. Then all of a sudden, no one can push her around. She's khaleesi. She has a husband who is kind to her, more than she ever hoped for, a child to love, probably the first creature she's ever truly loved, and power. She's treated well, she's obeyed, and her brother can't touch her if he wants to keep all his parts, no matter how hard he tries. She finds a kind of freedom roaming with the horde. I'm not sure I can disagree with that. She's only 15, but to be fair, at the kind of time this is supposed to be set in, getting married at 15/16 was normal. And you married older, because an older man had settled his life down, learned a trade/conquered a land, established himself.
For me, her being 15 kind of explains a lot of what she does. At 15, after being mistreated your whole life, you tend to want to burn some stuff to the ground.
Spoiler:
Savage worlds are made of savage people. Even Ned Stark isn't a saint, by any means, and he's one of the best men in the series.
I don't know why I sympathize with Dany so much. Maybe I just kind of understand how she must feel at certain points.
As for the latest episode, dear Lord in heaven, Loras is so bad for Renly. Though the shaving scene was funny, and domestic ("Everywhere?"), he does not need to be putting ideas in that man's head. No. Bad Loras. Bad.
I liked Cersei and Robert's conversation. One vs. Five was kind of surprising, because it showed that despite being a drunken idiot all of the time now, Robert is still a soldier at heart. He understands war, though that's about all he understands. Cersei doesn't seem to get it. She thinks numbers are all there are to war. It was very enlightening though, the whole exchange.
Jesus, Catelyn's sister, the actress is playing crazy well. She seems out of her mind. (Ewwwww, awkward) Poor Imp, he doesn't deserve his family. He just wants a quiet life.
Spoiler:
Which he had, for all of a month before his daddy flipped his lid.
I had something else to say about this episode, but I've forgotten.
kleine_kat Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-11 Age : 44 Location : Lower Countries
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:48 am
Just watched episode 6, and I'm wondering about something. Please tell me if I'm completely wrong because I haven't read the books, but aren't all the Lannisters, apart from the Imp, completely miscast?
I'm asking because I get the feeling, by how people react to the Lannisters, that they are all supposed to look beautiful and kind and are all vipers UNDER the skin. But Joffry is...ugh. He looks like someone smashed his face as a phoetus and then rebuild it wrong after birth. Jaime is not unhandsome, but his eyes are kinda iffy, and Cersei, Heady...she just has a face like a harpy. She's not ugly, but there is nothing sweet about her. Apart from the Imp, who comes across as being a jerk, but an honourable man when he can, sympathetic, sarcastic, kind to kicked pups and cripples, the rest are all bastards at first sight, and I'm not sure that's what they're going for.
I will miss Viserys. He was despicable, but his face was awesome and his end so nasty --if deserved.
Lapin Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 35 Location : Maryland
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:22 am
I think they're good-looking.
And no, the Lannisters are those people that everyone knows exactly what they are. They're just rich and often the winning team, so people tend to side with them.
Jay/Cris The Word Police
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 36 Location : A´dam.
Subject: Game of Thrones Tue May 15, 2012 1:45 pm
Seriously, though. It's like Lord of the Rings on crack. Why aren't we all ranting and raving about how awesome it is?
Fiine. For those who habitually reside under large rocks: Game of Thrones is the HBO adaptation of George R.R. Martin's epic series of a Song of Ice and Fire. It's, like, awesome. The characters are clever, the plotline is intricate and well-developed and actually requires viewers to A: pay attention and B: not be stupid.
Go watch it. It does the books justice.
Somath Cegem Wonderfully English
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 37 Location : Land of Burning Spirit
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Tue May 15, 2012 2:41 pm
I can't watch it, I just can't, I made it the death of lady and had to quit. I just can't go through all those deaths again.
Aggie Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Join date : 2009-06-11
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Tue May 15, 2012 11:57 pm
From what I've heard, the books make a point of killing absolutely everyone. Thus, I see no point in getting invested in characters that are just going to cack it when you start to warm up to them. That's kind of why I stopped watching Supernatural, actually.
Jay/Cris The Word Police
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 36 Location : A´dam.
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 3:35 am
Aggie wrote:
From what I've heard, the books make a point of killing absolutely everyone. Thus, I see no point in getting invested in characters that are just going to cack it when you start to warm up to them. That's kind of why I stopped watching Supernatural, actually.
Shouldn't that make the books a lot shorter than they are?
Yes, Game of Thrones has a high body count, but it also some characters that make it through 'til the end. Thus far, only one of my favorites has bitten it, and I've got a horrible track record when it comes to favorites.
Also, epic main title:
Just Chipper Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Join date : 2010-01-05 Age : 33 Location : Liverpool, England
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 10:44 am
This season is awesome because it's basically "Tyrion verbally slaps the fuck out of Cersei over and over" and it's amazing. Tyrion's the best, with Brienne a close second.
Mr.Doobie Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2009-10-23 Location : under the sink
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 10:59 am
I don't even watch this, but I referenced it in a rap battle yesterday.
Maybe I should check it out since it's so popular...
theweirdkind Bastion of Sanity
Join date : 2009-06-03 Age : 34 Location : The Land of Strangeness
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 3:40 pm
I finally broke down and watched season one a couple of months ago and caught up to season 2. I agree that Tyrion really does make season 2 awesome.
Also, there was already a Game of Thrones Antidotes topic.
Cunovendus Sporkbender
Join date : 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 4:40 pm
Cyberwulf wrote:
Yeah, I don't know which I liked more, the naked whores, Blondie undressing his sister and feeling up her tits, or how every female character is defined in terms of her relationship to a man.
Oh, oh, maybe it was the bit where the blonde one gets raped by Mr Braid while she cries and HE says 'no'. The little boy catching the brother and sister fucking was awesome too and totally justified.
I'm not quite sure how you got the impression that the brother/sister fucking scene was "totally justified". I thought it was pretty clear that it was not, but apparently I must have missed something. Would you mind explaining this to me?
Jay/Cris The Word Police
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 36 Location : A´dam.
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Wed May 16, 2012 5:52 pm
Cunovendus wrote:
Cyberwulf wrote:
Yeah, I don't know which I liked more, the naked whores, Blondie undressing his sister and feeling up her tits, or how every female character is defined in terms of her relationship to a man.
Oh, oh, maybe it was the bit where the blonde one gets raped by Mr Braid while she cries and HE says 'no'. The little boy catching the brother and sister fucking was awesome too and totally justified.
I'm not quite sure how you got the impression that the brother/sister fucking scene was "totally justified". I thought it was pretty clear that it was not, but apparently I must have missed something. Would you mind explaining this to me?
Sarcasm, love. Learn how to speak it.
Cunovendus Sporkbender
Join date : 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 17, 2012 1:34 am
Jay/Cris wrote:
Sarcasm, love. Learn how to speak it.
I do speak it - better than you, it would seem.
Jay/Cris The Word Police
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 36 Location : A´dam.
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 17, 2012 3:12 am
Cunovendus wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
Sarcasm, love. Learn how to speak it.
I do speak it - better than you, it would seem.
Heh. Cute.
Cunovendus Sporkbender
Join date : 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Game of Thrones Thu May 17, 2012 8:20 am
Alright, if you want me to spell it out, I will do so.
Cyberwulf stated that the scene "was totally justified", obviously in a sarcastic manner, suggesting that it's not. Well, that part I agree with.
However, one does not say things like that unless they have a reason to believe that somebody thinks it to be justified. So, what I am getting at is: what does Cyberwulf believe is attempting to be justified?
Is he/she saying that the characters are not justified in sleeping with each other? Because if so, I agree, but I don't think it was ever implied that they are. Newsflash: the Lannisters are antagonists...well, there are a lot of very wicked people in that series but the Lannisters are particularly bad. Did you see what they did to that boy who caught them in the act?
Or is he/she saying that HBO are not justified in showing that scene? Because I don't agree with that. If they're going to follow the book, they need to include the nasty, gritty bits as well as...actually, I think the book only has nasty gritty bits!
Or is it that George Martin is not justified in writing that scene? Because if that's it, I feel bound to point out that the majority of you read worse things than that every day (I know because you post it here), so I can't believe you'd object to that.
Or, does he/she think that HBO believe that there is nothing wrong with a brother and a sister sleeping together? Because again, I disagree there. They are following the book, and the book creates vile characters who do things like sleep with their sisters. I'm pretty sure HBO know that this isn't justified, and are quite clearly portraying these people as antagonists.
So that's what I'm getting at. I'm just not sure what Cyberwulf believes they are trying to justify, and would appreciate clarification on the matter, that's all.