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Cunovendus
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PostSubject: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - a story where Lord Tywin Lannister has a bastard daughter whom nobody knows about...apart from everyone in House Lannister, Baratheon, Stark, Greyjoy and...well, everyone, really!

Quote :
...Freya....

Mistake number one. That is clearly not a Lannister name. Freya is a Saxon name, and Saxon names don't really appear in GoT, other than the wildlings maybe. They certainly don't give Lannister children names like that.

Quote :
and Lord Tywin took her in knowing she had no one else in the world.

Mistake number two. Since when is Lord Tywin such a nice man that he'd do something like that for a girl who's not of pure Lannister blood? The only people he cares about are those who bear the Lannister name. If she's a bastard, Lord Tywin would consider her little better than a common peasant, hence expendable. He wouldn't care if she had no-one else, he'd just leave her. She's not important. Why would he take so much trouble over her? He just doesn't do things like that. Newsflash: Lord Tywin is NOT a nice man!

Quote :
Cersei had the little girl brought before her, she had just celebrated her 7th name day, and Cersei claimed she wanted the little girl to see the court and be raised in the capitol. Lord Tywin agreed and brought his youngest daughter to the queen.

So Lord Tywin has failed to keep the secret within his house - and he did this because his daughter asked him to? Apparently Lord Tywin is now an idiot.

Quote :
The reveal of a Lannister bastard came as a surprise to several people, especially King Robert, who did not appreciate being made a fool of by his wife's family.

Why would King Robert care about Tywin's bastards? Even if he did, this is a man who was willing to have a young girl assassinated because she might threaten his throne in the future. Everyone's so full of 20th century morality...you wouldn't think these were the characters from Game of Thrones.

Quote :
He did what he thought he had to do and had Eddard Stark brought before him in King's Landing.

Thereby foiling Cersei's cunning plan by not getting angry.

Quote :
"Take her back to Winterfell with you, I know you already have a ward in Theon Greyjoy, your own children as well, what are their names? Robb, Jon and the little girl, she won't be any trouble though, she's small, well-mannered, she's got the Lannister wit and temper to be sure," Robert said as he motioned at a servant.

And Lord Stark said "No! I will not have one of those Lannister snakes in my house!" ......oh wait, no he doesn't. He agrees. King Robert didn't even need to command him.

Quote :
"What are our words?"

"A Lannister always pays his debt," Freya said with a nod. "Hear me Roar."

Nope! A common saying but not their official motto. True, she does say the official motto afterwards, but surely she'd say that one first, and the common saying afterwards, if at all...

Chapter two is called "The Little Lioness" - that doesn't sound good.

Quote :
"Boys this is...," Ned started to say but Freya was quick to interrupt him.

"I'm Freya Leo of the House of Lannister, and a Lannister always pays their debt."

Person1: "Hello, I'm Rob."
Person2: "I'm Dave, and I always pay my debts."

Also, the fact that she interrupted Lord Stark contradicts an earlier assertion that she was "polite as she was beautiful". Either that or she's hideously ugly.

Quote :
"You're the bastard we heard about," Jon said quickly. Freya's expression hardened before she threw herself at him.

Yeah. That would so happen. Jon, who is himself a bastard, would immediately throw that line at a bastard who he'd just met.

Quote :
Freya climbed quickly, she was smaller than the boys, but she was more nimble.

The female insert can do things better than the male canon characters. Why am I not surprised? What's the betting that she outclimbs Bran later on?

Quote :
"It's ok," Robb said softly. He scooted closer to her and wrapped an arm around her careful not to touch her shoulder or arm. "You don't have to be brave all the time, I won't tell them you cried."

Anyone want to take a wild stab at where this is going? (clue: Robb-mance)

Quote :
"...everyone looks at me differently, they whisper about me."

Because the Lannisters, of course, did nothing of the sort...they love their bastard siblings! They're not bothered about purity of bloodlines at all (hence why Jamie wasn't fucking Cersei to make sure Robert's heir would be pure Lannister blood...oh wait, he was!)

Quote :
"We could of had a party,"

AAARGH!!!! Could HAVE!! Would HAVE! Should HAVE! Of is not a verb! It cannot be used in that context!!!! Angry

Quote :
"His name is Cas, after my home."




Quote :
"No, he's the only present she got for her nameday, but she should have told us! Why doesn't she trust us," Robb cried angrily.

...wait, so the author IS aware of the use of "should have"? So why didn't she use it before? Sansa, of all people, should be able to talk properly.

Quote :
At ten she'd already been an excellent marksmen, at 12 she was better than all the boys but Theon, bows were his speciality after all.

Again, why am I not surprised?

Quote :
"Can you fetch Lady Stark for me," Freya asked. "Don't talk to anyone, just bring her."

This would be the same Lady Stark who doesn't like you?

Quote :
Lady Stark entered her chambers and immediately moved to the girl, she'd grown fond of Freya over the past 5, almost 6 years.

"What is the matter my dear," Lady Stark asked.

Oh, apparently she does now.

Quote :
"Perhaps, I was just curious if you had thought of anyone," Robb replied. In truth he had given it some thought, his father told him he had to, but the only girl he could think of was Freya. Granted she was two years younger than him and the ward of his family, but she was pretty, smart, kind. They were best friends, why shouldn't he want to marry the girl he was closest to?

Well who didn't see that one coming?

Quote :
"I'm sorry Freya, I didn't mean to upset you, I was just curious. I thought we were in the same boat, people keep asking me when I am going to marry, I can't stand it, I wanted someone to talk to. Jon and Theon don't understand," Robb said quickly.

Is this an essential part of a relationship or something? To both have the same issue in their lives, so that they can both angst together over it? Maybe the reason I haven't found anyone yet is because I've yet to meet someone who is struggling to find work due to not having the relevant experience...when I do, we shall instantly become lovers, I just know it!

Quote :
It was two days before the raven returned from King's Landing. It had included an angry letter from Tywin explaining that if his daughter died he would never forgive the Starks.

Firstly, I must re-iterate that Lord Tywin would not care about his bastard daughter. Secondly, the two houses are hardly best of friends anyway, so telling Lord Stark that he'd never forgive him is tantamount to Horatio Nelson saying "Oi, Bonaparte! If your navy sinks any more of our ships, we will never forgive you!"

Quote :
"She's a lion, she'll fight until her last moment," Jon said.

And now the Starks suddenly have respect for the Lannisters, and no longer consider them cowardly backstabbing snakes.

Apparently, to cure the fever, it is necessary for someone to share a bed with her - three guesses who that's going to be. No prize for guessing what'll result from that...

Quote :
"You thought the fever would kill a lion," Freya asked incrediously.

Well, technically she's only half-lion, since she's Tywin's bastard. Oh, and...it worked! What a surprise! Romance cures everything, it seems. Obviously only single people can ever fall ill, in that case.

Quote :
"Freya," Robb whispered as he leaned toward her, intent on kissing her. She realized his intent and pulled away from him almost falling back on the bed in her surprise.

"I'm sorry," they both said at the same time. She knew she had hurt his feelings by pulling away and he knew that he had crossed a line with her.

"Robb, I've never... I don't know... we can't," she finally said unsure to explain the swirl of emotions she was currently experiencing.

"No, I don't know what I was thinking, you're right, I'm just happy that you're ok, I'm sorry, don't think anything of it please," Robb said quickly seeing how uncomfortable his advance had made her.

Freya nodded slowly before meeting his gaze. "It's not that I don't... I don't know how," she admitted softly.

And having just read that, the last chapter ends with a summary:

Quote :
So now Robb knows for sure how he feels, how long is it going to take Freya to figure it out though?

I can't wait for the chapter where she joins Arya for fencing lessons, and starts climbing the tower walls with Bran...the idea itself isn't a bad one. It's just not believable; Tywin won't take all of this trouble for her, Lord Stark will never have a Lannister in his household, and everyone would hate her simply because she's Lannister blood. This isn't the modern world, where we try to help everyone who's disadvantaged in some way, even if we don't stand to gain from it!
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:13 am

When I first saw the subject line, I thought, "Of course, it's not. Nothing is." But after I saw that it was from FFN, I wondered if, in fact, it should've been, at least there. I admit that I almost never visit the Pit, but I thought they had a rule against sections based on the works of authors (like a certain Mr. R.R. Martin) who prohibit fanfic. Does that not also apply to fanfics based on adaptations of said works?
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:11 am

Quote :
I can't wait for the chapter where she joins Arya for fencing lessons, and starts climbing the tower walls with Bran

LOL @ complaining about a Mary Sue in a fandom in which the hero's five kids all have magical pet wolves.

And his bastard son's magical pet wolf is a totally different colour to the other magical pet wolves.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:30 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
Quote :
I can't wait for the chapter where she joins Arya for fencing lessons, and starts climbing the tower walls with Bran

LOL @ complaining about a Mary Sue in a fandom in which the hero's five kids all have magical pet wolves.

And his bastard son's magical pet wolf is a totally different colour to the other magical pet wolves.

I'm not really familiar with Game of Thrones, but if that's all it takes to render all comments about a Mary Sue invalid you must read some very boring fantasy fiction.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:44 pm

Quote :
Freya knew what she was, she had known it since she was old enough to understand.
An authorial self insert. "I will never have a life or desires of my own," she lamented, tears slipping down her cheeks.

Quote :
Her last name was Leo, Lion, the sigil of the Lannisters.
Because it's 'Game of Thrones' rather than the Song of Ice and Fire books, this can almost slide. ALMOST. However, it should be Freya Hill, I do believe. Hill or Stone, for a bastards last name in that area.

Quote :
It was something Lord Tywin was determined to keep secret. His poor wife, people thought she had died due to illness, but it had been a broken heart.
Oh, and giving birth to Tyrion, but really, it was a broken heart.

Quote :
Tyrion, was loved by his siblings but his father felt total apathy for him.
Hahahahaha! Malice and anger are how Cersei shows love!!

Quote :
Despite being his bastard, he seemed to favor her over his other children.
Well, to be fair, Jaime at this time pissed Tywin off by joining the Kingsguard and leaving Tyrion as his heir, whom he hates... but ... I'm getting too much into the technical details, aren't I? What I mean to say is, "Aw, self-insert Sue is the shameful favorite!"

Quote :
"I have a task for you my friend, my wife's family has a bastard."

"A Lannister bastard," Ned said in shock. "Who are her parents?"

"It would seem Lord Tywin fathered the girl, broke his poor wife's heart, the girl's whore of a mother died shortly after she was born. I need her gone Ned, people are starting to talk, it won't do," Robert declared.
Like Robert with his sixteen bastards would care! If anything, I could see Robert taking the girl into his court, showing her everywhere, just to stick it in Tywin's eye. Which would be funny to read, so of course, it's not here.

Quote :
Take her back to Winterfell with you, I know you already have a ward in Theon Greyjoy, your own children as well, what are their names?
Cause Theon turned out so well.

Quote :
"No," Jamie said coldly. "It is your order, you can give it yourself." He was furious about this, he had made it no secret to the rest of his family. Freya was the bright spot in the family, completely untainted by their politics and games.
*dies laughing* Oh... oh, I'm ded. I'm DED.

Quote :
"Can my family come to visit," Freya asked.

"No they can not, and I never want to see you again," Robert said with a firm look in Jamie's direction.
"And you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny!" Robert screamed!

LOL yeah... that should be interesting. It's going to be hard to review it without bringing the books into it, which the author might not know about or have read. I'll have to rewatch Game of Thrones to keep it to just a TV show perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:18 pm

Penguin wrote:

I'm not really familiar with Game of Thrones, but if that's all it takes to render all comments about a Mary Sue invalid you must read some very boring fantasy fiction.

I have to agree with this.

Unless cyber meant it in a different context of it not being mary-sueish
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:35 pm

Drabbler wrote:
When I first saw the subject line, I thought, "Of course, it's not. Nothing is." But after I saw that it was from FFN, I wondered if, in fact, it should've been, at least there. I admit that I almost never visit the Pit, but I thought they had a rule against sections based on the works of authors (like a certain Mr. R.R. Martin) who prohibit fanfic. Does that not also apply to fanfics based on adaptations of said works?

I don't k now about R.R. Martin, but Anne Rice and JK Rowling aren't very fond of people writing fanfics based on their books. A fair number of authors aren't, actually. I know if I managed to write a multi-million doller best-seller that had a huge fan following, I wouldn't want people writing fanfic about it.

On the other hand, whether or not they'd actually try to prosecute someone for writing fanfic is a whole nother thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:22 am

I don't think the wolves are supposed to be magical...just highly intelligent and loyal.

Also, I'd question whether I'd classify the lead character as a "hero" - judging by the state of affairs at the end of the second book, that doesn't appear to be the case (I won't go into detail here as I don't want to spoil anything - or be spoiled).

Finally, I don't think having a pet - even a unique one - automatically makes you a Gary Stu.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:15 am

Rabid Badger wrote:
Drabbler wrote:
When I first saw the subject line, I thought, "Of course, it's not. Nothing is." But after I saw that it was from FFN, I wondered if, in fact, it should've been, at least there. I admit that I almost never visit the Pit, but I thought they had a rule against sections based on the works of authors (like a certain Mr. R.R. Martin) who prohibit fanfic. Does that not also apply to fanfics based on adaptations of said works?

I don't k now about R.R. Martin, but Anne Rice and JK Rowling aren't very fond of people writing fanfics based on their books. A fair number of authors aren't, actually. I know if I managed to write a multi-million doller best-seller that had a huge fan following, I wouldn't want people writing fanfic about it.

On the other hand, whether or not they'd actually try to prosecute someone for writing fanfic is a whole nother thing.


I think just writing it would be okay. But if you tried to sell it, that would be cause for a Cease and Desist letter.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:39 am

Cunovendus wrote:
I don't think the wolves are supposed to be magical...just highly intelligent and loyal.
They're the only Dire Wolves in the whole of Not!Middle Earth and there just happens to be enough cubs for all of Not!Boromir's kids.

Quote :
I don't think having a pet - even a unique one - automatically makes you a Gary Stu.
Please. If you read a fanfic in which an OC had a nearly extinct wild animal as a pet, what would you say?

Seriously, I tried to watch Game of Thrones, I really did. Even leaving aside the gratuituous naked women, delightful rape scene, and yet another fantasy series set in a Dark Age/Medieval society, I could never get past "all the kids get a magical wolf as a pet". Haaaaaack.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:02 am

Cyberwulf wrote:

Please. If you read a fanfic in which an OC had a nearly extinct wild animal as a pet, what would you say?

I would say "Oh, he found a nearly extinct wild animal and made it into a pet." Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:33 am

Cunovendus wrote:
Cyberwulf wrote:

Please. If you read a fanfic in which an OC had a nearly extinct wild animal as a pet, what would you say?

I would say "Oh, he found a nearly extinct wild animal and made it into a pet." Razz

I would say that sarah palin didn't get ahold of them before the show begin.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:08 pm

Rabid Badger wrote:
Drabbler wrote:
I thought they had a rule against sections based on the works of authors (like a certain Mr. R.R. Martin) who prohibit fanfic. Does that not also apply to fanfics based on adaptations of said works?
I don't k now about R.R. Martin, but Anne Rice and JK Rowling aren't very fond of people writing fanfics based on their books. A fair number of authors aren't, actually. I know if I managed to write a multi-million doller best-seller that had a huge fan following, I wouldn't want people writing fanfic about it.

On the other hand, whether or not they'd actually try to prosecute someone for writing fanfic is a whole nother thing.
They couldn't prosecute; that's criminal court, not civil. They'd have to sue, but even that's not what I'm talking about. As far as I understood it, FFN had a policy that, if an author said, "No fanfic," then they banned all fics based on that author's work. [George R.R. Martin has long been one of the most outspoken in not approving of it. Rowling, on the other hand, is among the more accepting, so I'm not sure why you lumped her in.] So there'd be no Anne Rice fic allowed, for example. If that policy is still in place, my question is whether that applies to adaptations in other media - meaning there shouldn't be a Game of Thrones section - or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:05 pm

There is a section for A Song of Ice and Fire too, so my guess is that either the policy is no longer in place, or that FF.net aren't enforcing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:56 pm

Cunovendus wrote:
There is a section for A Song of Ice and Fire too, so my guess is that either the policy is no longer in place, or that FF.net aren't enforcing it.

As if The Pit has ever enforced anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:20 am

Just for informational sake, here's the section of FFN's Guidelines listing prohibited fics:

Quote :
FanFiction.Net respects the expressed wishes of the following authors/publishers and will not archive entries based on their work:

* Anne Rice
* Archie comics
* Dennis L. McKiernan
* Irene Radford
* J.R. Ward
* Laurell K. Hamilton
* Nora Roberts/J.D. Robb
* P.N. Elrod
* Raymond Feist
* Robin Hobb
* Robin McKinley
* Terry Goodkind

So if Martin was on the list before, he's not on it anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:58 pm

It looks more like they just haven't updated the list in a decade or so. I know other authors who are as opposed as some on that list but aren't in there. I guess not even bothering to ever update the list falls under general lack of enforcement. Good ol' FFN.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:17 am

Maximilia wrote:

Quote :
Her last name was Leo, Lion, the sigil of the Lannisters.
Because it's 'Game of Thrones' rather than the Song of Ice and Fire books, this can almost slide. ALMOST. However, it should be Freya Hill, I do believe. Hill or Stone, for a bastards last name in that area.

It's Hill for the Westerlands. Stone is for the Vale.

To be honest, I was expecting more bad fanfic from GOT. In particular, I had this vision of a contingent of Joffrey fangirls who would start shipping Joffrey and Sansa as the perfect couple. My basis was that in the two scenes prior to "Baelor" where Joffrey and Sansa were alone, Joffrey played the perfect gentleman and was very charming, and that the actors seemed to actually have significant chemistry. Suffice it to say, if news comes out that Jack Gleeson and Sophie Turner are dating, I will not be surprised.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:52 pm

Yeah, Joffrey is basically Draco Malfoy so I'm surprised there isn't a whole bevy of fangirls trying to put him in leather pants. I agree with an old fandom secret which said if you like Draco but hate Joffrey, you're a hypocrite because they're basically the same character.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:46 am

Mouse wrote:
Yeah, Joffrey is basically Draco Malfoy so I'm surprised there isn't a whole bevy of fangirls trying to put him in leather pants. I agree with an old fandom secret which said if you like Draco but hate Joffrey, you're a hypocrite because they're basically the same character.

I actually take issue with that. Joffrey is far worse than Draco.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Only because Joffrey is royalty and has the power to do more than just bully people. Though Draco does eventually demonstrate some redeeming qualities so maybe you do have a point.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:27 pm

That was my point. Draco couldn't bring himself to kill Dumbledore. Joffrey would have done so in a heartbeat.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:59 pm

Meshakhad wrote:
That was my point. Draco couldn't bring himself to kill Dumbledore. Joffrey would have done so in a heartbeat.

Well, he would have ordered someone to do it for him while he gleefully watches, at least.

Yeah, I wish there'd be more fic about him...I like dark fics that explore how nasty characters like that tick without woobifying them.
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PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
Cunovendus wrote:
I don't think the wolves are supposed to be magical...just highly intelligent and loyal.
They're the only Dire Wolves in the whole of Not!Middle Earth and there just happens to be enough cubs for all of Not!Boromir's kids.

Quote :
I don't think having a pet - even a unique one - automatically makes you a Gary Stu.
Please. If you read a fanfic in which an OC had a nearly extinct wild animal as a pet, what would you say?

Seriously, I tried to watch Game of Thrones, I really did. Even leaving aside the gratuituous naked women, delightful rape scene, and yet another fantasy series set in a Dark Age/Medieval society, I could never get past "all the kids get a magical wolf as a pet". Haaaaaack.

Granted, I'm a GoT (show and book) fan so this gets up my nose a bit, but no, IIRC, the direwolves are not nearly extinct. The reason they're rare in the story is because they're almost never seen as far south as Winterfell. Which means there's probably more of them waaaaaay up north somewhere.

The reason they end up becoming the Stark kids' pets is because partially of the direwolf sigil of House Stark and mostly because
Spoiler:
 

If the Stark kids and their pets were Sues - though the wolves are not really pets, since because of the above
Spoiler:
 
you'd think that they'd be armored by some pretty heavy-duty plot armor. But no, curiously unlike a Sue, they are not. Hence
Spoiler:
 
Yeah, that's some Sueage for you.

No offense meant to you, but please learn something about the damn canon before you say such and such canonical element of something you don't know much about is Sueish. Hell, Dany is a far better candidate for a canonical Sue than any of the Starks, even Jon Snow, and I frankly think that's why she's the least interesting character in the entire series to me.

The reason this Freya Leo character is a Sue without question is because A) no way would Tywin Lannister father a bastard - and if by some VERY SLIM chance he did, he would kill her and her mother on sight rather than have them taint his precious reputation/House, B) all bastards have common names that vary from place to place in Westeros, and "Leo" is not one of those names, and C) no fucking way would Robb, the heir to his father's House, marry a bastard girl who's the daughter of one of his greatest enemies. Robb is a fool for love, too, but he's NOT that foolish. No way.

Curiously enough, I can see Tyrion fathering a bastard and maybe attempting at some point (probably way before the War of the Five Kings, though) to make some clandestine effort at caring for him/her. I can't see that ending well, though. Barra, anyone?
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Meshakhad



Join date : 2010-03-06

PostSubject: Re: Not even Game of Thrones is safe...   Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:13 pm

The Stark children all getting wolves is, admittedly, a bit Suish. However, one trait alone is not enough.

Dany IS probably the most Suish character. However, there are two major things IMHO that keep her from being a Sue.

1. Her decisions have negative consequences, and she has to deal with them.
2. She definitely does not warp the plot around her. At most, she is the single most important person in Slaver's Bay, but that's what happens when you lay waste to the status quo. And she's had essentially no impact on the Westeros plotline.
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