Florida church to hold 9/11 Quaran burnings

Anon wrote:

I hate to tell you this but absence of evidence doesn't equal evidence of absence.

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we do not know we don’t know."

Majin Gojira wrote:

Because small groups of motivated individuals have never harmed anyone, right? It's not like people with similar mind-sets are into anti-government militia movements or anything...

That's right! Let's ban thoughtcrime.

The thing about scientific theories is that they are not theories in the way that religious people say they are.

Furthermore, if God can exist, why can't unicorns and leprechauns exist?

It's impossible for a just, omnipresent, all-powerful God to have created humans as we are.

Either God is a bastard, as fallible as any human, or he does not exist.

Penguin wrote:

Anon wrote:

I hate to tell you this but absence of evidence doesn't equal evidence of absence.

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. These are things we do not know we don’t know."

Anon's quote is an accepted point of argument from the theology/religious studies/philosophy perspective. The lack of concrete evidence doesn't serve as proof that there's nothing there. It's just part of the field(s) you have to get used to--you can't apply scientific theory to those any more than you can apply their methodologies to the sciences, and trying to do it is a waste of time and energy. This is why I don't deal with the touchy-feely, philosophical side of religion very much; I'm more interested in actual behaviors and execution, which is why this particular news piece is mildly interesting.


On topic: Burning the Qu'ran isn't illegal, nor should book-burning become illegal. As counter-productive as I think it may be (on a number of levels), it's still a legal form of expression. However, I think the church's actions are going to backfire on them. Whatever you think of religion, burning any group's major text is going to be (no pun intended) an incendiary act with eventual repercussions. At the very least, it's going to affect community cohesion. At the worst, who knows?

So, if there is no god, where did the universe come from? And by "the universe", I mean the materials involved in the Big Bang. Can we rightly prove or disprove that a spiritual force put it there? Why is the universe expanding? Is it infinite? Why does it exist? Why does gravity exist? How did life come to be? How many subatomic parts are there and is there truly a smallest unit of matter?

^ I know you're intending those to be philosophical questions, but as to this one—

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Is [the universe] infinite?

—a popular theory last I checked was that the universe is finite, but unbounded. That is, it's kind of like the 3-D equivalent of the 2-D surface of a sphere: it's finite, but if you were to hypothetically travel long enough in the same direction, you'd eventually arrive back exactly where you started.

And as to subatomic parts and a smallest unit of matter, I'm sure there's copious textbooks on the matter. Or, yunno, wikipedia or something.

Adagio wrote:

^ I know you're intending those to be philosophical questions, but as to this one—

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Is [the universe] infinite?

—a popular theory last I checked was that the universe is finite, but unbounded. That is, it's kind of like the 3-D equivalent of the 2-D surface of a sphere: it's finite, but if you were to hypothetically travel long enough in the same direction, you'd eventually arrive back exactly where you started.

If it's finite, are there things that exist outside of it? Do there exist other planes of existence where a god-like figure (or anything, really) might live? Most people would probably think the idea is ridiculous, but they're not exactly unreasonable questions. For all we know, we might be living in one universe out of many.

Adagio wrote:

Quote :

And as to subatomic parts and a smallest unit of matter, I'm sure there's copious textbooks on the matter. Or, yunno, wikipedia or something.

The smallest identified subatomic particle is the quark (or it was the last I checked). Who's to say there aren't more parts to the quark? Before the quark, it was electrons and protons. With further study, physicists might find a particle that makes up a quark.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but there are a lot of things we just don't know, and therefore claiming that all religious (or non-religious) people are delusional... Well, you get what I'm saying, right? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

So, if there is no god, where did the universe come from? And by "the universe", I mean the materials involved in the Big Bang. Can we rightly prove or disprove that a spiritual force put it there? Why is the universe expanding? Is it infinite? Why does it exist? Why does gravity exist? How did life come to be? How many subatomic parts are there and is there truly a smallest unit of matter?

In order.

Chuck Norris went back in time and made it by roundhousing the Void so hard it created matter.

Chuck Norris roundhoused the Void so hard, it is STILL exploding.

It's as great as the power of Chuck Norris. So yeah, it's infinite.

Because Chuck Norris wanted it to exist.

Gravity is all of the mercy of Chuck Norris holding the universe together. He used it all up, so if you run into him, don't expect to receive any yourself.

Chuck Norris went back into time again, and ejaculated into the primordial ooze.

CHUCK NORRIS RELATED JOKE NOT FOUND

Now shut up. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Since this thread is gearing towards this direction, I'm going to provide some useful links.

Potholer54's "Made Easy Series (For Schools)" dealing with the History of Our Universe, Origins of Life, Age of Our World, Natural Selection, Evolution and Carbon Dating.
His beta version of "Scientific Method Made Easy"
The many videos of AronRa are worth a look as well, especially his epic "Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism" series.
Andromeda's Wake has a series on "Creationist Astronomical Propaganda Debunked" or "CrAP debunked" which answers many questions about astronomy as well as an educational series "Welcome to the Universe."
Thunderf00t's more aggressive approach is fun to watch, and he has a series entitled "Why do people laugh at Creationist."
cdk007 doesn't have a series like the others, but provides a lot of commentary on the aforementioned subjects as well as other scientific topics clouded by crap.

Also, beware the "God of the Gaps."

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

So, if there is no god, where did the universe come from?

If there was once no universe, where did the god(s) come from?

This is one of the things that religious people readily trot out to try and prove a point, but when encountered with similar arguments always respond with "That's just one of His great mysteries," "God moves in mysterious ways," etc. The most honest answer is "I don't know."

But it's quite another thing to go from "well a supreme being or beings may have just willed it into being" and quite another to say "And this being or beings has told me how to run my life, they/he/she/it loves me, and demands worship and respect."

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

A Chuck Norris joke in the year 2010 Anno Domini

Really, Mikey? What's next, are you going to tell us about cakes being lies, or that the universe was created when someone was set up the bomb?

TheHermit wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

A Chuck Norris joke in the year 2010 Anno Domini

Really, Mikey? What's next, are you going to tell us about cakes being lies, or that the universe was created when someone was set up the bomb?

Why don't instead of being Mr. Hate-orade you be Mr. Helpmeimprovemymaterial?

But in this thread we've left out the most important question of all. Who was phone?

Can't imagine this going wrong...

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Quote :

organiser, Pastor Terry Jones said: "We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam."

By insulting all of it... Kinda like sending a message to Fred Phelps by pissing on the Bible?

Thankfully, the move is being condemned and called out from all sides:

Quote :

[A] top US commander in Afghanistan warned troops' lives would be in danger if the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida went ahead.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the church's plan was "disrespectful and disgraceful".

Muslim countries and Nato have also hit out at the move.

And the US Attorney General, Eric Holder, called the idea "idiotic and dangerous".

In fact, this is becoming an international incident. If it isn't already, that is...

Quote :

News of the bonfire has sparked protests in Afghanistan and Indonesia.

In Kabul on Monday, about 500 protesters chanted "long live Islam" and "death to America" as they set fire to an effigy of Mr Jones.

I wonder what the Daily Mail readership is thinking?

Quote :

have been reading the Koran and islam is not and has never been a religion of peace. Islam is a creed of conquest and subjegation.
- Tom, Crawley, 3/8/2010 17:51

Quote :

Islam is not the religion of peace and is certainly no friend to the west or supports freedom of speech, civil rights, women's rights, or gay rights but burning any religious text is wrong.

This will polarise the moderates out there to move towards radical Islam.

Not to mention how the Islamic world will react... In short, the only way they know how, extreme violence.

All the comments attempting to, you know, talk sense, are flooded with red arrows...

Except for this one:

Quote :

Oh I do love a good book burning. It demonstarates my supper intellygense too thees muzlems
- Poopascoopa, Pea-green-boat, 3/8/2010 16:39

[edit]Oh, hay.... Look what I foud

*Selfpunch*

WD40 wrote:

Can't imagine this going wrong...

Quote :

[A] top US commander in Afghanistan warned troops' lives would be in danger if the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida went ahead.

Oh, but God will deflect the infidels' bullets... or rather He would if He wasn't pissed with America for something that some people do in bed.

Remember: each time you take it up the shitter, God kills a GI.

...I swear there was already a thread about this. Though I could just be delusional.

Edit: Nope, not delusional. Yet, anyway.

...and you already noticed, it looks like. My bad. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I hereby proclaim September 11 National Hug a Muslim Day.

If you can find one, that is. I have a feeling simply walking up to someone in the street and asking "Are you a Muslim?" will not work too well.

EileenK98 wrote:

I hereby proclaim September 11 National Hug a Muslim Day.

If you can find one, that is. I have a feeling simply walking up to someone in the street and asking "Are you a Muslim?" will not work too well.

At work in the breakroom, they have a calendar. I was smoking a smoke on a break when the cook came in and we were chatting for a bit. I glanced at the calendar for a moment and noticed Sept. 11 was "Patriot Day". I blinked and asked WTF was Patriot Day. The cook looked at me a bit strangely and said, "Well, you know ... 9-11?" My response, "Yes, but any American who was around on that day is going to remember it, why do we need to make it a fucking holiday?"

Long boring story short, I like the idea of Hug a Muslim Day instead.

And it's off

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Though I bet this isn't going to stop other nutjobs from burning them anyway

the asylum wrote:

And it's off

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Though I bet this isn't going to stop other nutjobs from burning them anyway

Well, good, but I don't see why they should move the mosque.

I vote we keep hug a Muslim day.

Lexin wrote:

the asylum wrote:

And it's off

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Though I bet this isn't going to stop other nutjobs from burning them anyway

Well, good, but I don't see why they should move the mosque.

The AP is saying they aren't moving the mosque, so unless this momzer down in Florida has it on tape he's talking out of his ass. Again.

the asylum wrote:

And it's off

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Though I bet this isn't going to stop other nutjobs from burning them anyway

DID SOMEBODY SAY NUTJOBS

Doesn't get much nuttier than Old Man Phelps and Co.

Quote :

"WBC burned the Koran once – and if you sissy brats of Doomed america bully Terry Jones and the Dove World Outreach Center until they change their plans to burn that blasphemous tripe called the Koran, then WBC will burn it (again), to clearly show you some things," the church announced in a news release this week.

I usually love it when I'm right. Key word being usually.

Lexin wrote:

the asylum wrote:

And it's off

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Though I bet this isn't going to stop other nutjobs from burning them anyway

Well, good, but I don't see why they should move the mosque.

I vote we keep hug a Muslim day.

I'd happily hug a Muslim, but all the Muslims in my close vicinity kind of want me dead and out of their house.

Hippies.

Penguin wrote:

Hippies.

QFT

How about 9-11 is Not Shoot a Muslim Day? Other other 364 days are what bullet proof vests (and armor piercing ammo) are for.

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Adagio wrote:

^ I know you're intending those to be philosophical questions, but as to this one—

The Alien from Uranus wrote:

Is [the universe] infinite?

—a popular theory last I checked was that the universe is finite, but unbounded. That is, it's kind of like the 3-D equivalent of the 2-D surface of a sphere: it's finite, but if you were to hypothetically travel long enough in the same direction, you'd eventually arrive back exactly where you started.

If it's finite, are there things that exist outside of it? Do there exist other planes of existence where a god-like figure (or anything, really) might live? Most people would probably think the idea is ridiculous, but they're not exactly unreasonable questions. For all we know, we might be living in one universe out of many.

Oh, the soap bubble theory! That's one of my favorites! The theory is that there are tons and tons of universes all on top of each other like big balls of soap bubbles. It's absolutely fascinating.

Quote :

Adagio wrote:

Quote :

And as to subatomic parts and a smallest unit of matter, I'm sure there's copious textbooks on the matter. Or, yunno, wikipedia or something.

The smallest identified subatomic particle is the quark (or it was the last I checked). Who's to say there aren't more parts to the quark? Before the quark, it was electrons and protons. With further study, physicists might find a particle that makes up a quark.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but there are a lot of things we just don't know, and therefore claiming that all religious (or non-religious) people are delusional... Well, you get what I'm saying, right?

That's not an argument.

There's a distinct difference in believing that there are smaller things than quarks, and that there's some all-knowing being who controls everything and anything. One who institutes truly stupid rules to boot. (Seriously, what is so bad about mixed fibers?) Just like the gods who lived on a mountain and threw lightning.

To be honest, the idea of gods scares me more than a universe without one. The gods in the holy books are all malicious, self-centered, jealous, cruel, horrific creatures. They burn cities on a whim and advocate raping and pillaging. They're all horrible.

Humans aren't all good, but they at least have some redeeming qualities.