Terrorist Attack on a Norwegian Youth Camp Leaves (at least) 90 Dead

I hope they burry this guy in the deepest, darkest jail cell they can find so he can never see the light of day again.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Especially the people who seem to be trying to justify it by equating the Norwegian Labour Party with fascists.

Please provide names, phone numbers and home addresses of those who did.

The Unoriginal wrote:

Spotts1701 wrote:

Especially the people who seem to be trying to justify it by equating the Norwegian Labour Party with fascists.

Please provide names, phone numbers and home addresses of those who did.

Yes. Do. I've always wanted to go to Norway.

See? The guy's getting his actions carefully whitewashed and excused the worst of the responsibilities because he's white and Christian. If he was Islamic he's be in a meat grinder. Or burning at a media stake.

All I can say is, they glossed over that other psycho Christian gunman's Christianity Tommy Mc-something... or whatever he was...

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

that other psycho Christian gunman's Christianity Tommy Mc-something...

Do you mean [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]? He claimed to be all sorts of things ranging from Catholic to agnostic.

Yup. But IIRC all his stated regions for the bombing were secular.

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists! No, no, he was just a confused young man who murdered a bunch of innocent people to make his perceived enemies afraid.

Oh wait.

It's worse than that. He likes WoW. And Modern Warfare 2, which, as everyone with taste knows, is when Call of Duty officially jumped the shark.

Penguin wrote:

Yup. But IIRC all his stated regions for the bombing were secular.

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists! No, no, he was just a confused young man who murdered a bunch of innocent people to make his perceived enemies afraid.

Oh wait.

It's worse than that. He likes WoW. And Modern Warfare 2, which, as everyone with taste knows, is when Call of Duty officially jumped the shark.

The video games made him do it! Everyone knows video games make you violent!

I'm sure that angle will come up, but I stand by my assertion that WoW and MW2 players are terrible people. The games are just something terrible people happen to enjoy; they don't turn good people into terrible people.

The whole shooting is like something out of an 80's horror film. Those poor kids, they're never going to be able to trust anyone 100% ever again.

Penguin wrote:

Yup. But IIRC all his stated regions for the bombing were secular.

His stated reasons were secular, but some scholars (Mark Jurgensmeyer, for one) do call him a Christian terrorist rather than a terrorist who was Christian; while he had dominantly secular motives, he did get some of his training with a group with decidedly right-wing Christian orientation.

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists!

Tell that to the people who lost family members and children to Timothy McVey and the UniBomber.

Rabid Badger wrote:

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists!

Tell that to the people who lost family members and children to Timothy McVey and the UniBomber.

Americans have short memories. I had a woman tell me, in all honesty, that only Muslims are terrorists.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

See? The guy's getting his actions carefully whitewashed and excused the worst of the responsibilities because he's white and Christian. If he was Islamic he's be in a meat grinder. Or burning at a media stake.

Sadly, this is true. If a Muslim does stupid shit, it's assumed they did it in the name of Islam and not, say, mental illness. For that matter, being Muslim at all can make a person suspect, like the Muslim girl at my school last year who spent a lot of time in the library. Some of her fellow students told me she must be using the library to learn how to make bombs. Um...right--she was reading Twilight in preparation to blow something up.

Lady Anne wrote:

Um...right--she was reading Twilight in preparation to blow something up.

I suppose there's a Twilight fic = terrorism joke in there somewhere.

Oh, Norway. I can't even comprehend how one person can kill almost 100 people, in less than two hours. Almost 100 teenagers at that. The man was insane, period, and I think that to attribute any kind of political motivation to this man's acts ignores that.

grmblfjx wrote:

I also feel that you don't get to shoot nearly 90 teenagers and still call yourself Christian.

But do people who fly planes into buildings and kill thousands get to call themselves Muslim?

It gets better, now his 1500 page diary has turned up, with descriptions of what he wanted to do and why. I've only read a summary (only has a Swedish news source, here)here) and that enough is terrifying. Apparently he saw the whole bombing and shooting as a case of advertisment for his work.

There really are no words.

The one silver lining though is that he describes not being killed by the police but instead waking up wounded and captured in a hospital bed as his worst nightmare.

For those who doesn't read Swedish, or Norweigan and don't feel like reading 1500 pages of crap, he also made a video.


Edit: CNN article on the manifesto: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Owlish wrote:

grmblfjx wrote:

I also feel that you don't get to shoot nearly 90 teenagers and still call yourself Christian.

But do people who fly planes into buildings and kill thousands get to call themselves Muslim?

This is a good point. But I don't know enough about it; I mean I know Jesus was all about love and forgiveness and turning the other cheek and I don't know what the Quran says about these things, so "I also feel that you don't get to fly a plane into a building and kill thousands and still call yourself Muslim" is a statement that's going to have to come from someone who knows more about it than I do.

Well, um, Islam is very easy to interpret as a "Get your ass to war in the name of Mohammed" religion. Unfortunately. The Koran DOES sadly have a lot of stuff about how it is great to die in the name of religion.

However that doesn't mean Christianity can't be interpreted that way with all the plagues and wars and smitings God endorsed and Jesus, while doing less of the smiting, did say plenty about ALL of the bible still being applicable.

The guy was clearly insane.

Whether he was doing this in the name of politics or religion (in any case it's often a case of apples and pears) is kind of irrellevant. The Norwegian government is saying things about 'not jumping to conclusions'. They seem to be carefully trying to avoid that it could well be religion that this guy was crazy about.

We've got a serious Double Standard going on. If he was Islamic, Muslims would currently be undergoing a witch-hunt, and that would be all the media could focus on. But he is Christian, a major religion in Norway, and so the fact that he's Christian is being ignored as much as possible.

Lapin wrote:

Rabid Badger wrote:

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists!

Tell that to the people who lost family members and children to Timothy McVey and the UniBomber.

Americans have short memories. I had a woman tell me, in all honesty, that only Muslims are terrorists.

Tell that to anyone in Northern Ireland. Or who lived through the Troubles while living in London.

Lexin wrote:

Lapin wrote:

Rabid Badger wrote:

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists!

Tell that to the people who lost family members and children to Timothy McVey and the UniBomber.

Americans have short memories. I had a woman tell me, in all honesty, that only Muslims are terrorists.

Tell that to anyone in Northern Ireland. Or who lived through the Troubles while living in London.

When I read the part about the Troubles, my mind immediately went to Haven, and I asked myself if Londoners also spontaneously gained inconvenient and dangerous superpowers.

lemmingwriter wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Yup. But IIRC all his stated regions for the bombing were secular.

His stated reasons were secular, but some scholars (Mark Jurgensmeyer, for one) do call him a Christian terrorist rather than a terrorist who was Christian; while he had dominantly secular motives, he did get some of his training with a group with decidedly right-wing Christian orientation.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It'd be one thing if he picked up radicalized religious beliefs while with that group, but it's inaccurate to classify someone with "dominantly secular motives" as a religious terrorist of any group.

Lady Anne wrote:

Some of her fellow students told me she must be using the library to learn how to make bombs. Um...right--she was reading Twilight in preparation to blow something up.

Well, duhhh. It's only a matter of time until she tries to become a sparklebomber.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Well, um, Islam is very easy to interpret as a "Get your ass to war in the name of Mohammed" religion. Unfortunately. The Koran DOES sadly have a lot of stuff about how it is great to die in the name of religion.

However that doesn't mean Christianity can't be interpreted that way with all the plagues and wars and smitings God endorsed and Jesus, while doing less of the smiting, did say plenty about ALL of the bible still being applicable.

The Koran has the same stuff about that as the original Bible plus extra stuff thrown in by Mohammed.

Now, the problem is with Wahabbism spreading like wildfire. All those Muslim clerics in positions of high authority talking about how Muslims need to rise up and kill all the infidel Christians and Jews? Kinda missed all this. Another problem is that they've so thoroughly hijacked Islam in the 20th century that what we would generally call "moderate Muslims" would be considered apostates in most of the Middle East, and worse than infidels. And the Koran is full of bloody passages on what to do with infidels and apostates. And as a cleric in, say, Saudi Arabia, it's incredibly easy to sell indulges to princes feeling a bit guilty of all their hedonistic excess when they study abroad, and then in turn send that money to terrorist groups.

So, at this point, while people make it out to be a simple black-and-white issue, modern Islam does lend itself to radicalized beliefs and terrorism more handily than modern Christianity, but right now, that's largely due to a host of issues that range from economics to tribal politics. It's not an issue with the religion so much as the conflict and economics of the parts of the world where it's been practiced the longest.

Again, though, it's not black and white, and these are generalizations. Self-professed Christians blowing up abortion clinics to save babies, for example. Jesus wasn't entirely about turning the other cheek...

Quote :

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

Quote :

And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'and he was numbered with transgressors'; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment." They said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough."

Sooo I don't think it'd be that much a stretch -or a surprise- that Christians can find justification to commit acts of terror when it's, you know, SAVE TEH BABEHS

Lexin wrote:

Lapin wrote:

Rabid Badger wrote:

Lapin wrote:

But Penguin, white people can't be terrorists!

Tell that to the people who lost family members and children to Timothy McVey and the UniBomber.

Americans have short memories. I had a woman tell me, in all honesty, that only Muslims are terrorists.

Tell that to anyone in Northern Ireland. Or who lived through the Troubles while living in London.

I tried that line of reasoning with her (I actually do have some knowledge of stuff that goes on outside our little bubble), and she said:

"That's not the same thing."
" How is that not the same thing?"
"Only Muslims are terrorists! You know, no Muslims died in the towers!"
"(Thinking)...Yes they did, what are you talking about? A lot of people who worked in the towers were Muslims."
"No, no, you know Muslims, they celebrated!"
"Only fellow insurgents, and only because they've lost their minds and think it's justified, just like the IRA justified it to themselves."
"The IRA was never a terrorist group!"

At that point, I just, you know, walked away. Because I kind of wanted to strangle her.

Filth wrote:

Edit: CNN article on the manifesto: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Quote :

"Not only will all my friends and family detest me and call me a monster; the united global multiculturalist media will have their hands full figuring out multiple ways to character assassinate, vilify and demonize."

Well, he got the first part right. The media, on the other hand, doesn't need to assassinate his character, vilify, or demonize him--he did that all by himself.

Quote :

The author leaves clues about his family and background, and also indicates that English is his "secondary language."

Irony's a bitch, isn't it? He rails against multiculturalism, then admits to speaking more than one language.

Quote :

The final stage features the deposition of Europe's leaders and "implementation of a cultural conservative political agenda."

He sounds like a European teabagger with an extra-large side order of batshit.

Kevin M wrote:

I hope they burry this guy in the deepest, darkest jail cell they can find so he can never see the light of day again.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen: Norway has a hard cap on maximum prison sentences. The maximum penalty this scumbag can get is 21 years. Or roughly 4.5 months per life he took.

BRB, raging.

ETA: I've been informed elsewhere that he can be kept longer if he's still deemed "a danger to society", so there's that.