Join date : 2009-06-25 Age : 32 Location : One of the guys with the giant papier-mâché dongs in Lysistrata
Subject: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:05 pm
Now, I haven't played a huge amount of this game, and the gameplay itself is great, but Metroid: Other M is very sexist.
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In the world of Other M, Samus stumbles upon her old Galactic Federation squad mates while answering a distress call on a seemingly abandoned vessel. Among the people she encounters is her former captain, Adam Malkovich. In the most contrived manner possible, Samus loses her special abilities. How? She opts not to use them. Why? She wants to show Adam she can follow orders.
Yes, that’s right. The woman who in the first five minutes of the game gives the squad access to the ship by using her missiles is restricted from using her abilities -- some which could open a path or save her life in the future -- until a bland male character dictates it to her. She does this because she likes him, but only as a friend.
No matter what way you rationalize this mechanic, when you're 10 minutes into the lava sector and you can't use your Varia Suit yet, you will understand how painfully stupid this plot device is.
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Yes, Samus uses the phrase “confession time” like a 12 year old girl scrawling in her Lisa Frank diary but really, the Alan Wake-meets-Lifetime Channel Original Movie narration gets old faster than you can say “daddy issues.” Until Other M, Samus has existed as a silent protagonist with only the personality that we have bestowed upon her in our own imaginations. Regardless of whether or not the interpretation in Other M can be reconciled with your own perception of her, there is a moment later in the game that cannot be justified…ever. Confronted by her longstanding nemesis, Ridley, she is spliced into flashes of a little girl, crying and afraid, despite the fact she has already defeated Ridley at least FOUR times already, once when he was a powerful robot. Terrible.
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In short, you're asked to forget that Samus has spent the last 10-15 years on solitary missions ridding the galaxy of Space Pirates, saving the universe and surviving on her own as a bounty hunter. Instead, Other M expects you to accept her as a submissive, child-like and self-doubting little girl that cannot possibly wield the amount of power she possesses unless directed to by a man.
And, because we all feed on wank like crackheads on, um... whatever. There has been huge amounts of backlash to this review.
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It sounds like the reviewer had just had an argument with her boyfriend or something and was is a particularly "MAN HATING" mood when she played the game.
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I'm not even a Metroid fan, I just think they should have a better criteria to rating games. Maybe they shouldn't be reviewing games during their time of the month?
Oh wah wah.. it's not empowering to women anymore.. wahhh...
Who are videogames like Metroid made for? Boys! (This isn't Cookin' Mama)
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The way I see it, the players of the game create these preconceived notions of what a Metroid game should be like, or how Samus should act and feel, and I'm here to tell you that you're all full of shit. There's only one party that can decide on what the content of a game is like, and that's exclusively THE DEVELOPER. In this case, it's Team Ninja and Nintendo.
Click the link for a few more potentially rage-worthy quotes.
Last edited by Dr. Professor Science on Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
Reepicheep-chan Important Person
Join date : 2009-06-11 Age : 38 Location : IN A SEXY NEW CONDO
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:24 pm
Quote :
Who are videogames like Metroid made for? Boys! (This isn't Cookin' Mama)
Wow. Just... wow.
Mikey Go WOOGA NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-06-16 Age : 34 Location : In desperate pursuit of lulz.
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:53 pm
Quote :
Confronted by her longstanding nemesis, Ridley, she is spliced into flashes of a little girl, crying and afraid, despite the fact she has already defeated Ridley at least FOUR times already, once when he was a powerful robot. Terrible.
This might work the FIRST time she faced Ridley. I mean, his actions directly led to or caused the death of her parents and general destruction of her home planet.
So it's to be expected emotions would overwhelm her when meeting him again (though I'd figure those emotions would be anger expressed through a Super Missile, but whatever).
A good question is why, if she apparently couldn't follow orders when he was her superior officer, would she follow his orders now when she's the single most destructive force in the galaxy?
Also, lolfeminists.
Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-07-18 Location : Wild Gray Yonder
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:48 pm
I have very little firsthand knowledge of this game beyond overhearing my roommate playing it. However. I can safely say that from a story perspective it's completely stupid since she NEVER STOPS TALKING.
BLAH BLAH BLAH I WAS KNOWN FOR GIVING THE THUMBS-DOWN IN BRIEFINGS BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M A GIRL BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH THUMBS-UP BLAH BLAH BLAH
Psy-4 Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Join date : 2009-06-10
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:11 am
Quote :
Yes, that’s right. The woman who in the first five minutes of the game gives the squad access to the ship by using her missiles is restricted from using her abilities -- some which could open a path or save her life in the future -- until a bland male character dictates it to her. She does this because she likes him, but only as a friend.
Yes, it's not like he's a military officer trying to accomplish a non-combat mission, and has absolute authority over the Bottle Ship as a representative of the Federation, and can tell Samus to get out if she doesn't want to play ball? Why should Samus be subjected to the same rules as the men on the squad? She should be allowed to use any equipment she has without any regard for anything, just like real life military; remember the times when pilots used to dump all their munitions into whatever the fuck they pleased? Yeah, those were the non-existent times.
Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Quote :
Confronted by her longstanding nemesis, Ridley, she is spliced into flashes of a little girl, crying and afraid, despite the fact she has already defeated Ridley at least FOUR times already, once when he was a powerful robot. Terrible.
This might work the FIRST time she faced Ridley. I mean, his actions directly led to or caused the death of her parents and general destruction of her home planet.
So it's to be expected emotions would overwhelm her when meeting him again (though I'd figure those emotions would be anger expressed through a Super Missile, but whatever).
Batman gets this with his parents and they were dead since he was eight. Why not Samus?
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Until Other M, Samus has existed as a silent protagonist with only the personality that we have bestowed upon her in our own imaginations.
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Diary of a Wimpy Bounty Hunter
Baw, Samus isn't the Rule 63 on Bobba Fett like I wanted. Also, diaries are for pussies.
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The point is to flesh out one of the most iconic (and nonsexualized) female characters
what is this shit
Okay, no. Since I want to keep some ounce of respect for other posters, I will say this before they post.
Not being that involved in Metroid, I already know more about the character than the reviewer. In that, until Fusion and Other M she didn't have one. Her gender, personality were in no way relevant to blowing shit up, and the reveal that she was a girl all along is just a Shyamalan-esque tweest.
Samus was completely interchangeable with Samuel or an animated pile of rocks, and the eye candy at the end of a completed game that you get could have been just some chick that he plowed.
Let's examine the story of Samus. She watched helplessly as a monster incinerated and ate her parents. She was adopted and raised to be a Galaxy protector by Old Bird, and then watched helplessly as the Chozo went missing (Old Bird escaped, whew), then watched as her commanding officer gave the order for his brother (implied to be Samus's boyfriend) to be left for dead, not accepting that she couldn't do anything, she quits and becomes a bounty hunter.
She watches as Mother Brain kills the Baby Metroid (her pet/child) without being able to lift a finger, how her best friend gets thrown into lava, and wasn't able to stop her surrogate father from sacrificing himself, in, once again, a perfectly logical and calculated decision... Am I the only one that's starting to see a pattern here? Watching helplessly as everything you cherish dies in front of your eyes? Two of those were near misses, tan-fucking-fastic, thank fuck for small comforts in her miserable life.
I can not recall a single male hero who was shat upon by the universe this badly and still maintained an attitude expected of Samus. Compounded with
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Samus has spent the last 10-15 years on solitary missions ridding the galaxy of Space Pirates, saving the universe and surviving on her own as a bounty hunter.
That's a recipe for self-destructive behavior for any person. The mere fact that she's not abusing substances, or trying to commit suicide half the time, or engages in extreme promiscuity, and still can express and feel with little difficulty is a testament to a character so powerful, I can't really think of one that comes close.
Do you get it yet? Samus actually became a female role model. She shows that while stuff can affect you pretty badly, you gotta pick yourself up and kick ass. And if the existence of the Something Bad thread is any indication, there is not a single person here that can criticize Samus' character. Aww, what's the matter? Boyfriend troubles? Parents being dicks? Gonna make a lot of bawposts about it? Why don't you be like Samus, break down over it once and then deal with it?
Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-07-18 Location : Wild Gray Yonder
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:13 am
Psy-4 wrote:
That's a recipe for self-destructive behavior for any person. The mere fact that she's not abusing substances, or trying to commit suicide half the time, or engages in extreme promiscuity, and still can express and feel with little difficulty is a testament to a character so powerful, I can't really think of one that comes close.
Either that or it's a testament to Nintendo bending over backwards to keep violent video games child-friendly.
Maximilia My spoon is too big.
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 50 Location : South Dakota
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:08 am
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I'm struck by this brouhaha, not because it's new or especially rancorous. If you've seen one flamewar, you've seen them all. But it does illustrate what happens when a writer for a high-profile outlet chooses to address a game critically - I mean when he or she functions as a critic instead of simply a reviewer. All too often the backlash is severe and ugly. It suggests that, for a sizable portion of the gaming audience, genuine criticism is perceived as inappropriate, unnecessary, or even unprofessional.
While I'm not a Metroid fan, I have a bit of an idea of what it's about and that the revelation of Samus being female is "relatively" new. I can agree on whoever said that turning her into a whiny "Dear Diary" girl from the strong, silent sentinel she was earlier is very insulting. However, the part which concerns me most about the article Doc posted is this paragraph. Has everyone in the world grown up to be speshul snowflakes who think that criticism, especially honest criticism, is ugly and meen and nasty? WTF, people.
Somath Cegem Wonderfully English
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 37 Location : Land of Burning Spirit
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:30 am
Okay, 1. So Samus has never spoke before eh?
2. Take out the genders and we have the simple fact that this is a free lance bounty hunter going what a commissioned officer tells them so they can take part of an official mission, just like in Prime 3. Just add in that this time the Bounty Hunter in question sees the commanding officer as a Big Brother/Father Figure and guess what, her doing what she is told by this very powerful man who could easily just say no I don't want your help fuck off is not very far fetched.
3. Yeah the Varia suit bit is dumb, so is Samus not activating her plasma beam the moment Adam says "go find and use your plasma beam on that thing.
4. In the original Metroid and Prime 1 she would have been just some hot blooded engine of vengeance. Echoes would have confused the crap out of her the whole way especially trying to peice together what the hell is up with this doppelgänger. Corruption would have been heart breaking in places with the death of her hunter friends (we even see her morning them at the end). Samus Returns would have been very business like until the baby pops up (with an obligatory WHY WON'T YOU DIE at Ridley). Super Metroid would just be a rampage of GIVE ME BACK MAH BAYBEH! Which leaves us with other M, all that effort to save that one creature, out the window, I don't about you but I think I'd be entitled to a bit of a mope after all that.
5. Ridley, erm, well she's 'beaten' him at least 5 times (and one robot version) But only well and truly blow the bastard apart in one version, Super Metroid the game chroonologically all of about 3 weeks before this one. Some sort of OH SHIT! Reaction was needed seeing as he mostly comes back form stupid injured not boomed into a million peices, I think they added in the freeze as an excuse to show why she hates Ridley so much (with flash back to him attack her at a young age) and for Anthony to attempt a rescue with that huge as cannon of his, which, of course, fell flat piling on the Samus guilt.
6. No mentioned at all in the review so I'll add my own gripe here, where the hell is my epic music!
7. The unlock doesn't suck because it's sexist (though it possibly is, I'm undecided) it's because it lacks any sense of achievement, the damn things are just handed to you. No beating a boss to get the wave beam, or navigating an maze of electric maze to get your power bombs. Hell just knowing to head left right away on zero misson to get the long beam makes you feel awesome. Take away that sense of satisfaction when you find and grab that power up and you take away a corner stone of the metroid franchise.
8. Oh yeah, and Jennifer Hal should have voiced Samus like in Prime.
WD40 Knight of the Bleach
Join date : 2010-02-15 Age : 44 Location : land of broken dreams
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:24 am
Maximilia wrote:
the revelation of Samus being female is "relatively" new.
I've seen this a lot... This silly argument that Samus' gender was only 'recently' revealed, this is bullshit, and just proves that no one was paying attention.
Samus has been female since Game 1, although this was confused with the crappy translation/rewrite of the original game manual when it came out in the west.
That game was released in 1986, Metroid 2 came out in '91, and made it clear that Samus was female, and then Super Metroid, in '94 practically rubbed your face in it. [Complete the game in under 4 hours and see Samus in her undies, at 14, my friends were blown away by that! Also her death animation quite clearly showed a female silhouette.
(Oh, and she 'spoke' in that too, the opening sequence has her creating a journal. The first lines of which "The last Metroid is in captivity, the Galaxy is at peace" were spoken. albeit in crappy 16-bit synthesised voice, but it is still speech.)
Max gets a pass here, you're not a hardcore fan... But any 'fan' who outright says that Samus' gender is a 'new' development is either not a fan, an idiot or under the impression that 14-years constitutes 'recent' developments.
Raine Challenge Winner!
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 37 Location : Australia
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:48 am
I really don't know much in terms of the story history and such, but from a game-design perspective I do feel a bit irritated at the idea of not being able to use all the cool weapons that have been amassed over the run of games. I usually feel that way with a lot of sequel games that do the same thing though. I don't really care what reason they give for making the character a blank slate, but in some way it feels a bit lazy on the designer's behalf on trying to make the game seem more "challenging".
Mikey Go WOOGA NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-06-16 Age : 34 Location : In desperate pursuit of lulz.
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:43 pm
Raine wrote:
I really don't know much in terms of the story history and such, but from a game-design perspective I do feel a bit irritated at the idea of not being able to use all the cool weapons that have been amassed over the run of games. I usually feel that way with a lot of sequel games that do the same thing though. I don't really care what reason they give for making the character a blank slate, but in some way it feels a bit lazy on the designer's behalf on trying to make the game seem more "challenging".
Pretty much every Metriod game leaves you with next to nothing to start the game. Though they usually have a better excuse than someone you could easily vaoprize told you not to use the Insta-Vaporizer. I Metriod Prime, an explosion on the Space Pirate station thingy you were escaping knocks out most of your gear.
Inexplicably, you can find replacement parts in stomachs of the mutant boss creatures on the planet you end up on.
Dr. Professor Science Ghoti
Join date : 2009-06-25 Age : 32 Location : One of the guys with the giant papier-mâché dongs in Lysistrata
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:12 pm
Actually, one of the more interesting things about this whole brouhaha is the backlash, which has been completely out of proportion and pretty insane.
Quoth this Boing Boing article, which I'm still not sure I 100% agree with but is interesting to think about:
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Michael Abbott of The Brainy Gamer sees this as a backlash against the idea of games as art: "All too often, the greatest resistance to thinking critically about games comes not from academics, luddites, or old-school critics like Roger Ebert. The most vocal resistance comes from gamers."
True! But as far as we accept the angry constituency as representative at all, we should also admit that some gamers only cared about 'art' because acceptance as such amounted to a form of validation. To see a backlash here assumes a level of engagement that was never actually in evidence. Critical assessments of games -- at least mainstream ones -- remain a hard sell to most of the people buying them.
Keep in mind that most responses to the review were more flames about the style of the review than actual critiques or responses to the content. Normally I stay away from the whole "art" vs. "not art" thing, but it's interesting to see how vehement gamers were to convince everyone that games can be considered art, then had a whole ton of them dogpile on one reviewer, screaming "IT'S JUST A GAME, JESUS. STOP THINKING SO HARD." I realize this is a generalization, but the number of comments along those lines is overwhelming, and I just love hypocrites.
Also, I always thought that Samus being seen as some kind of feminist icon or something was a bit dubious, especially since you could see her in her underwear as a reward in one of the other games.
Last edited by Dr. Professor Science on Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Psy-4 Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Join date : 2009-06-10
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:13 pm
Maximilia wrote:
I can agree on whoever said that turning her into a whiny "Dear Diary" girl from the strong, silent sentinel she was earlier is very insulting.
Obviously these things are mutually exclusive. And wahhh, I don't like my characters having more than two dimensions.
WD40 wrote:
Max gets a pass here, you're not a hardcore fan... But any 'fan' who outright says that Samus' gender is a 'new' development is either not a fan, an idiot or under the impression that 14-years constitutes 'recent' developments.
Mentally change Samus to be male or a robot. Apply to games not Fusion or Other M. List everything that's different.
Last edited by Psy-4 on Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-07-18 Location : Wild Gray Yonder
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:16 pm
"Zero Suit Samus" : Three lies in one.
Exodia's Right Leg Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Join date : 2009-08-04 Age : 38 Location : Niggertown, HUAHUEHUAland
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:08 pm
I know the Japanese can't write an independent female character to save their lives, so the portrayal of Samus in Other-M rings orange alarms in my head.
Yet, between the tridimensional, occasionally in distress Samus of Other-M, and "I take off my armor and suddenly I become a pin-up" Samus of Brawl, I'm going with Other-M.
Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-07-18 Location : Wild Gray Yonder
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:43 pm
That, and "independence" in the context of human behaviour can be rather subjective since most people will argue over the degree of dependence/independence on others an "independent" character has.
Wolf
Join date : 2009-08-25 Age : 42
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:41 pm
I think you can argue that Samus being interchangeable with a man or a robot or whatever is actually a good indicator of the positive feminist role model she represents. Think about it: isn't this the ideal we should be striving for? A woman who does the job every bit as well as a man would be assumed to do it, with the same confidence and determination that are supposedly the gender archetypes of masculinity? And the same respect given?
As for the Ridley encounter, I agree that she should have a reaction of surprise when he reappears, because as has been noted, she's blown him away a total of four times prior to this. However, a three-minute freakout is not the way to go. Someone on another board I post on put this best:
Quote :
Anyway, how to handle Samus facing Ridley in a "cinematic" game while referring to her past trauma, if you absolutely must: Close-up on Samus's upper face inside the helmet; wide-eyed anger, sweat; split-second flashbacks to the raid on K-2L, Ridley killing and/or eating people, little Samus crying, and her actually logical meltdown set before Metroid 1; back in the present, pull the camera back; Samus's visor is now opaque and imposing; she widens her stance, raises her gun arm, and takes aim.
I'll also echo WD40 here and state that Samus has, canonically, been female from the word "Go". Even if you didn't see her strip down to her bathing suit or whatever it was she was wearing under the armor (some early form of the Zero Suit, I guess?), she removed her helmet and was revealed to be pretty obviously a woman. I always assumed that the manual referring to her as male wasn't an issue of translation so much as an intentional gambit to make the ending a surprise. And while it is pretty fanservice-y to have her strip down once you beat the game, I'm not convinced that completely invalidates (or even really harms) her status as a female role model.
Somath Cegem's second point about Samus doing as she's told so as to be a participant in an official mission also rings true to me. Granted, I think the developers went a a little too far with the idea that she only unlocks weapons or other upgrades with Adam's permission, but the core idea still makes a bit of sense.
And while Samus has "spoken" before, it was typically kept brief and to the point, without spending much time on melodrama. The whole series has been, among other things, a powerful demonstration of just how effectively the philosophy of "show, don't tell" can work from a game-design perspective. Metroid Fusion fudged this a little, though it seemed like they wanted to create a game that was in some ways fundamentally different anyway, and the Prime games gradually leaned further and further toward more involved (and separately done) narrative for a while, but none of them have had the story "hands-off" to the extent that Other M does.
The problem with Other M isn't that it attempts to add depth to Samus Aran's character, though. The problem is that it goes about it in such a ridiculous way. Granted, Samus was more than a little two-dimensional for a long time. However, there are certain characteristics that she can be assumed to have after all the things she's done in the series. As mentioned above, confidence, competence and determination are a large part of it. The ability to work well in solitude--and perhaps to thrive in it--is another one. Whether by nature or by necessity, Samus is a loner, and as a character, she "works" that way. It's damned awkward to see Samus working as part of a team (even if it's only during story sequences), when we're used to seeing her as a solo operator. Even in Metroid Prime 3, when her goal is initially supposed to dovetail with the other hunters', she's ultimately operating independently, more so as the game progresses; she is eventually the last hunter willing or capable of fulfilling her mission. This makes Other M especially jarring; now that Samus is older and even more capable, she's working not only as part of a team, but as the least valuable member of the team, told the least about the actual goal, purpose and workings of the operation, and kept in the dark the longest.
I don't take issue with the idea of Samus being vulnerable. In fact, a measure of vulnerability is necessary if Nintendo is going to sell her as a truly rounded character. What I do take issue with is the idea that at this point in her life, Samus allows her vulnerabilities to interfere with her mission the way she does in Other M. The character called Samus in Other M never once struck me as the person who could have gotten through all the other ridiculously dangerous missions that happened before. This would have been a good tale for the beginning of Samus's career as a bounty hunter. Set before the original Metroid/Zero Mission, with the melodrama toned down, this would have been a fair-to-middling "origin" story for a character who is learning to find the confidence and sheer force of will to overcome many more challenges. Coming toward the end of her career (at least so far as it's been depicted), though, the whole story rings horribly false.
Metroid: Other M is fun, but the story is frankly very poorly done, and is an insult to the main character and her fans. I sincerely hope future Metroid games are better.
Psy-4 Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Join date : 2009-06-10
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:20 pm
Wolf wrote:
I think you can argue that Samus being interchangeable with a man or a robot or whatever is actually a good indicator of the positive feminist role model she represents.
No, being interchangeable with a robot is a good indicator that your character has no personality whatsoever.
Wolf wrote:
As for the Ridley encounter, I agree that she should have a reaction of surprise when he reappears, because as has been noted, she's blown him away a total of four times prior to this. However, a three-minute freakout is not the way to go. Someone on another board I post on put this best:
Quote :
Anyway, how to handle Samus facing Ridley in a "cinematic" game while referring to her past trauma, if you absolutely must: Close-up on Samus's upper face inside the helmet; wide-eyed anger, sweat; split-second flashbacks to the raid on K-2L, Ridley killing and/or eating people, little Samus crying, and her actually logical meltdown set before Metroid 1; back in the present, pull the camera back; Samus's visor is now opaque and imposing; she widens her stance, raises her gun arm, and takes aim.
Blah blah blah, whoever wrote that is an idiot. For this encounter anyway. It would do just fine for the second encounter.
Ridley is a painful reminder of all the Samus lost, which is... everything. He is a murderer that will not, fucking, die. At what point does it all starts to look like an exercise in futility? Samus is still losing things dear to her left and right, and the fucker responsible for most of that is still alive, after being shot and killed by her on four different occasions! Get it? No matter how powerful she gets, no matter how many upgrades she loses and finds, regardless of anything she does, she is still back to losing the precious few things she has, looking into the roaring ugly maw of fucking Ridley. Just as she was, when she was little.
Congratulations, you now know the point of that scene.
Wolf wrote:
I'll also echo WD40 here and state that Samus has, canonically, been female from the word "Go". Even if you didn't see her strip down to her bathing suit or whatever it was she was wearing under the armor (some early form of the Zero Suit, I guess?), she removed her helmet and was revealed to be pretty obviously a woman. I always assumed that the manual referring to her as male wasn't an issue of translation so much as an intentional gambit to make the ending a surprise.
Who is disputing she was female from the beginning? Who isn't doing anything to prove it was little more than an informed attribute?
Wolf wrote:
And while Samus has "spoken" before, it was typically kept brief and to the point, without spending much time on melodrama. The whole series has been, among other things, a powerful demonstration of just how effectively the philosophy of "show, don't tell" can work from a game-design perspective. Metroid Fusion fudged this a little, though it seemed like they wanted to create a game that was in some ways fundamentally different anyway, and the Prime games gradually leaned further and further toward more involved (and separately done) narrative for a while, but none of them have had the story "hands-off" to the extent that Other M does.
The problem with Other M isn't that it attempts to add depth to Samus Aran's character, though. The problem is that it goes about it in such a ridiculous way. Granted, Samus was more than a little two-dimensional for a long time. However, there are certain characteristics that she can be assumed to have after all the things she's done in the series. As mentioned above, confidence, competence and determination are a large part of it.
Blah blah blah, where is my Boba Fett Rule 63, etc. etc.
Wolf wrote:
The ability to work well in solitude--and perhaps to thrive in it--is another one. Whether by nature or by necessity, Samus is a loner, and as a character, she "works" that way. It's damned awkward to see Samus working as part of a team (even if it's only during story sequences), when we're used to seeing her as a solo operator.
Blah-de-blah-de-blah, here are my ideas about what the Samus character should have been. Seriously, Boba Fett was pretty awesome.
Also, Samus is most likely a loner by shit circumstances, considering most of the people close to her have a way of dieing.
Wolf wrote:
Even in Metroid Prime 3, when her goal is initially supposed to dovetail with the other hunters', she's ultimately operating independently, more so as the game progresses; she is eventually the last hunter willing or capable of fulfilling her mission. This makes Other M especially jarring; now that Samus is older and even more capable, she's working not only as part of a team, but as the least valuable member of the team, told the least about the actual goal, purpose and workings of the operation, and kept in the dark the longest.
Yeah, it's like she's not supposed to be there, and she's not really welcome; but I'm sure 'outsider' has taken on a meaning that you are the star of the show.
Wolf wrote:
I don't take issue with the idea of Samus being vulnerable. In fact, a measure of vulnerability is necessary if Nintendo is going to sell her as a truly rounded character. What I do take issue with is the idea that at this point in her life, Samus allows her vulnerabilities to interfere with her mission the way she does in Other M.
What mission? She is voluntarily responding to a distress call. Thank you, concerned citizen, but the qualified guys are here.
Wolf wrote:
The character called Samus in Other M never once struck me as the person who could have gotten through all the other ridiculously dangerous missions that happened before.
Personality interferes with the job, you know.
Wolf wrote:
This would have been a good tale for the beginning of Samus's career as a bounty hunter.
She has just quit on Adam to become a bounty hunter, and immediately meets him again? Holy shit, is that ever awkward.
Wolf wrote:
Set before the original Metroid/Zero Mission, with the melodrama toned down,
I, too, notify war orphans that witnessed their parents slaughter and soldiers with PTSD that they are being melodramatic.
Wolf wrote:
this would have been a fair-to-middling "origin" story for a character who is learning to find the confidence and sheer force of will to overcome many more challenges. Coming toward the end of her career (at least so far as it's been depicted), though, the whole story rings horribly false.
Most of it [it = criticism of character of Samus] can be boiled down to, baww, Samus was given a personality and it's not perfectly in-line with whatever I dreamed up, baww.
Maximilia My spoon is too big.
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 50 Location : South Dakota
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:42 pm
WD40 wrote:
Max gets a pass here, you're not a hardcore fan... But any 'fan' who outright says that Samus' gender is a 'new' development is either not a fan, an idiot or under the impression that 14-years constitutes 'recent' developments.
LOL, thanks for giving me the pass. I've never played a Metroid game, and only barely recognize the title. The only reason why I though it was a "relatively" new development that Samus was female was from X-Play for one of the game reviews where they make a point to show that it's revealed Samus is female. I had to turn to the hubby and ask, "Who's Samus?" He facepalmed.
Wolf
Join date : 2009-08-25 Age : 42
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:20 am
Psy-4 wrote:
No, being interchangeable with a robot is a good indicator that your character has no personality whatsoever.
I'm talking in broader strokes, here. You have a character who is, by context, portrayed as strong and determined, and in a way that (at least to me) makes it clear that it doesn't matter whether this character is a man or a woman. I'm just pointing out that, except for at the end, none of the games except Other M really try to make Samus's gender a major point. The idea that gender really doesn't matter when it comes to getting something accomplished was something I thought was a positive message, but thanks for missing my point.
Psy-4 wrote:
Blah blah blah, whoever wrote that is an idiot. For this encounter anyway. It would do just fine for the second encounter.
Ridley is a painful reminder of all the Samus lost, which is... everything. He is a murderer that will not, fucking, die. At what point does it all starts to look like an exercise in futility? Samus is still losing things dear to her left and right, and the fucker responsible for most of that is still alive, after being shot and killed by her on four different occasions! Get it? No matter how powerful she gets, no matter how many upgrades she loses and finds, regardless of anything she does, she is still back to losing the precious few things she has, looking into the roaring ugly maw of fucking Ridley. Just as she was, when she was little.
Congratulations, you now know the point of that scene.
She has destroyed Ridley on four previous occasions, and he comes back every time. If anything, as a skilled and competent warrior, I would expect her to be the least surprised out of everybody to see him come back yet again, when he has already demonstrated his capability to do so. Who better than Samus knows how resilient he is?
Psy-4 wrote:
Who is disputing she was female from the beginning? Who isn't doing anything to prove it was little more than an informed attribute?
I was referring to whoever it was who mentioned there are people who think Samus's status as female is a recent development. Sorry I didn't put it in quotes for you.
Psy-4 wrote:
Blah-de-blah-de-blah, here are my ideas about what the Samus character should have been. Seriously, Boba Fett was pretty awesome.
We have a character whose personality was left largely to the interpretation of the audience. Details concerning her attitude and likely reactions to the events in her past (briefly mentioned in any canonical material, if at all) are left up to the audience to determine by context. I'm sorry my interpretation differs from yours.
Psy-4 wrote:
Also, Samus is most likely a loner by shit circumstances, considering most of the people close to her have a way of dieing.
Please tell me all about the people close to her who died in Metroid, Metroid II, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2 Metroid Prime 3 (and tell me how she was close to the other hunters, and not merely professionally cordial) and Metroid Fusion. Yes, she lost the Baby Metroid in Super Metroid and many of her compatriots from her time in the army, but her career as a solo operator was established well before these events.
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
Even in Metroid Prime 3, when her goal is initially supposed to dovetail with the other hunters', she's ultimately operating independently, more so as the game progresses; she is eventually the last hunter willing or capable of fulfilling her mission. This makes Other M especially jarring; now that Samus is older and even more capable, she's working not only as part of a team, but as the least valuable member of the team, told the least about the actual goal, purpose and workings of the operation, and kept in the dark the longest.
Yeah, it's like she's not supposed to be there, and she's not really welcome; but I'm sure 'outsider' has taken on a meaning that you are the star of the show.
Except they allow her to participate, and it seems clear that most of them are glad to have her. And while it makes sense to disable some of the tools at her disposal (power bombs, for instance), reducing her to her most basic functionality seems like a ridiculous maneuver that hampers her efficiency and her ability to accomplish the goals Adam sets for her.
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
I don't take issue with the idea of Samus being vulnerable. In fact, a measure of vulnerability is necessary if Nintendo is going to sell her as a truly rounded character. What I do take issue with is the idea that at this point in her life, Samus allows her vulnerabilities to interfere with her mission the way she does in Other M.
What mission? She is voluntarily responding to a distress call. Thank you, concerned citizen, but the qualified guys are here.
Except they don't tell her to leave. They allow her to participate. Does that not make her part of the mission by default, if not by whatever initial plan they had?
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
The character called Samus in Other M never once struck me as the person who could have gotten through all the other ridiculously dangerous missions that happened before.
Personality interferes with the job, you know.
I write that the personality Samus displays in Other M seems incongruous with everything we're shown previously. You accuse me of saying that her having a personality at all is a bad thing. Did you have to go to some kind of specialized school to learn how to miss the point this badly?
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
This would have been a good tale for the beginning of Samus's career as a bounty hunter.
She has just quit on Adam to become a bounty hunter, and immediately meets him again? Holy shit, is that ever awkward.
Because the actual story of Other M, placed as it is in the timeline, isn't?
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
Set before the original Metroid/Zero Mission, with the melodrama toned down,
I, too, notify war orphans that witnessed their parents slaughter and soldiers with PTSD that they are being melodramatic.
This has more to do with the presentation (partly the dialogue, partly the feeling that everything is more than a little overstated, partly the cheap shots at creating suspense) than it does with the feelings and ideas being presented, but that was my mistake for not saying so.
Psy-4 wrote:
Wolf wrote:
this would have been a fair-to-middling "origin" story for a character who is learning to find the confidence and sheer force of will to overcome many more challenges. Coming toward the end of her career (at least so far as it's been depicted), though, the whole story rings horribly false.
Oh for fu- Here you go.
Now get out.
Most of it [it = criticism of character of Samus] can be boiled down to, baww, Samus was given a personality and it's not perfectly in-line with whatever I dreamed up, baww.
Forgive me for finding a little fault with the story and presentation of a game that attempts to expand on the personality of a battle-hardened warrior by revealing her to be panicky and insecure.
Raine Challenge Winner!
Join date : 2009-06-10 Age : 37 Location : Australia
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:11 am
Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Raine wrote:
I really don't know much in terms of the story history and such, but from a game-design perspective I do feel a bit irritated at the idea of not being able to use all the cool weapons that have been amassed over the run of games. I usually feel that way with a lot of sequel games that do the same thing though. I don't really care what reason they give for making the character a blank slate, but in some way it feels a bit lazy on the designer's behalf on trying to make the game seem more "challenging".
Pretty much every Metriod game leaves you with next to nothing to start the game. Though they usually have a better excuse than someone you could easily vaoprize told you not to use the Insta-Vaporizer. I Metriod Prime, an explosion on the Space Pirate station thingy you were escaping knocks out most of your gear.
Inexplicably, you can find replacement parts in stomachs of the mutant boss creatures on the planet you end up on.
Oh, well that definitely makes sense from a tradition viewpoint then (better than what I thought before). Still, that excuse on not using the equipment is really weak.
Reepicheep-chan Important Person
Join date : 2009-06-11 Age : 38 Location : IN A SEXY NEW CONDO
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:20 am
Wolf wrote:
Did you have to go to some kind of specialized school to learn how to miss the point this badly?
QFT.
Cyberwulf NO NOT THE BEEEEES
Join date : 2009-06-03 Age : 42 Location : TRILOBITE!
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:54 pm
Well at least Psy isn't falling back on tired old sexist cliches to defend the beloved game he masturbates furiously with every night.
gaijinguy Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Join date : 2009-06-10 Location : Assuming a spherical frictionless cow
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:25 pm
Raine wrote:
Oh, well that definitely makes sense from a tradition viewpoint then (better than what I thought before). Still, that excuse on not using the equipment is really weak.
Isn't the repower/depower pretty much inherent in these games? Shepard gets killed, Link gets whatever the fuck disaster, and so on and so forth.
Electron Blue Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-11
Subject: Re: Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments. Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:51 pm
gaijinguy wrote:
Raine wrote:
Oh, well that definitely makes sense from a tradition viewpoint then (better than what I thought before). Still, that excuse on not using the equipment is really weak.
Isn't the repower/depower pretty much inherent in these games? Shepard gets killed, Link gets whatever the fuck disaster, and so on and so forth.
It may be standard and it may be okay, but this is a reeeaally weak justification. I can accept Gordon losing his shit after a train crash, but someone not using their best because someone tells them no to feels arbitrarily limiting to the player and takes them out of the experience.
Metroid: Other M is sexist, inspires even more horribly sexist comments.