Stay Classy, Maine Republicans

Linky

Quote :

Late Friday afternoon, as Maine's Republican State Convention fanned out from the Portland Expo to county caucuses at nearby King Middle School, GOP loyalists from Knox County found themselves directed to Classroom 110 – the domain of eighth-grade social studies teacher Paul Clifford.

Mind...Maine's Republican Party just adopted most, if not all, of the Tea Party's platform at this convention. And Knox County, apparently, was the most fervent of the Tea Party folks.

Quote :

When he went home for the weekend on Friday, one of Clifford's most prized teaching tools – a collage-type poster depicting the history of the U.S. labor movement – was affixed to his classroom door. Clifford uses it each year to teach his students how to incorporate collages into their annual project on Norman Rockwell's historic "Four Freedoms" illustrations.

The poster includes this quote from the labor organizer and one-time presidential candidate Eugene V. Debs: "Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization. Progress is born of agitation. It is
agitation or stagnation."

"It's one of my favorite posters," said Clifford. "I've had it sitting there for seven years."

Enter the Knox County Republicans, whose weekend convention coup has attracted national attention as a harbinger of a movement that knows a thing or two about agitation.

Details are sketchy – as they often can be when political passion gives way to apparent criminal activity. But this much we know: When Clifford returned to school Monday morning, his cherished labor poster was gone.

In its place, taped to the same door, was a red-white-and-blue bumper sticker that read, "Working People Vote Republican."

Ah, yes. Because nothing says "polite discourse" like outright theft.

Quote :

While Clifford used his break time Monday to bang out a few pointed e-mails to GOP leaders asking for help in getting his poster back, King Middle School Principal Mike McCarthy started getting phone calls from rank-and-file Republicans who were upset by what they said they had seen in Clifford's classroom.

They objected to other "freedom" posters produced by kids from past years – one depicts former President George W. Bush with no eyes over the caption "I feel like I can see evil."

They objected to a sticker attached to a filing cabinet in the corner that reads, "People for the American Way – Fight the Right." (Clifford says he didn't put the sticker there – it was on the cabinet when he salvaged it from another classroom.)

They also objected to the contents of a closed cardboard box they found near Clifford's desk. Upon opening it for a look-see, they found copies of the U.S. Constitution printed and donated to the school by (gasp) the American Civil Liberties Union.

*gasp* The ACLU handing out the Constitution? Won't someone think of the children?!?!?

Quote :

Speaking of the children, they got into the act Tuesday after a note from "a Republican" was found in Clifford's classroom. "A Republican was here," it read. "What gives you the right to propagandize impressionable kids?"

Responded eighth-grader Lilly O'Leary, one of several students who sent e-mails to this newspaper decrying the behavior of their weekend guests, "I am not being brainwashed in his class under any
circumstances. I am being told that I have the right to my own opinion."

*sighs* The only people that have a right to object to the teaching in a classroom is the parents of the students in that room. And they have a remedy - it's called the School Board.

.........

....is the GOP capable of doing ANYTHING right these days?

....Damn it, Teabaggers, could please find another political party to call home? I'm sure the Green Party would appreciate the attention.

the asylum wrote:

.........

....is the GOP capable of doing ANYTHING right these days?

You're the left. Nothing you guys do is "right."

OH GOD NOT A LIBERAL IN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM

I sympathize completely with the teacher. If someone messed with my posters and the artwork produced by students, everyone would know within a short time how displeased I was.

God damn, GOP, that's the kind of behavior more often displayed by punk kids, not people attending a political convention. Did you all get dropped on your heads as kids? 'Cause I can't think of any other reason for you to be so developmentally delayed.

Edit: I just read some of the comments accompanying the article. The stupid--it burns. Then I showed the article to my mother, who is a high school social studies teacher in California. Her reaction? "What the fuck is wrong with these people, and why were they in a middle school?" (And my mother hates the f-word).

You read the comments? I couldn't, because basically I know how this plays out:

- If a liberal does something bad, then all liberals are bad because we have some sort of hive-mind.
- If a conservative does something bad, he's being duped or framed by liberals because a conservative would never willingly do a bad thing and thus all liberals are bad.

Spotts1701 wrote:

You read the comments? I couldn't, because basically I know how this plays out:

- If a liberal does something bad, then all liberals are bad because we have some sort of hive-mind.
- If a conservative does something bad, he's being duped or framed by liberals because a conservative would never willingly do a bad thing and thus all liberals are bad.

and you Liberals say the same thing.
(Note the title you chose for this thread. I honestly doubt every single Republican in the state of Maine could fit in a single classroom, and even if they all were in there, was the consensus to trash the stuff unopposed?

I hope he gets his poster back. I might cry otherwise; I need my happy ending.

There are no words.

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Princess wrote:

Spotts1701 wrote:

You read the comments? I couldn't, because basically I know how this plays out:

- If a liberal does something bad, then all liberals are bad because we have some sort of hive-mind.
- If a conservative does something bad, he's being duped or framed by liberals because a conservative would never willingly do a bad thing and thus all liberals are bad.

and you Liberals say the same thing.
(Note the title you chose for this thread. I honestly doubt every single Republican in the state of Maine could fit in a single classroom, and even if they all were in there, was the consensus to trash the stuff unopposed?

Were I you, Princess, I'd save my anger for the arsehelms like the ones in the story. You know - the ones who make it look like your party is full to overflowing with petty douchebags. I would also note pointedly that there doesn't seem to have been a single apology from a single GOP member. A lot of people take that sort of thing as implicit endorsement of said douchebaggery.

Goat wrote:

I hope he gets his poster back. I might cry otherwise; I need my happy ending.

I hope he does, too (or at least a replacement--who knows what the poster thief did to the poster?)

Gotta love the bit where some Republicans were whining about propaganda in the classroom--isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

Freezer wrote:

Were I you, Princess, I'd save my anger for the arsehelms like the ones in the story. You know - the ones who make it look like your party is full to overflowing with petty douchebags. I would also note pointedly that there doesn't seem to have been a single apology from a single GOP member. A lot of people take that sort of thing as implicit endorsement of said douchebaggery.

To be fair, a couple of them did apologize in that typical "I'm sorry if you were offended, but I'm still right and you're still wrong" way.

The thing is, when you get down to the "grass roots" level, this kind of behavior is common in every political party. Democrats aren't somehow above these shenanigans. This is where you find the true believers, the ones who've not only bought the party line wholesale but turned it into a religion. They're the ones who think of the other side as evil, and that excuses a whole lot of hypocrisy.

Drabbler wrote:

The thing is, when you get down to the "grass roots" level, this kind of behavior is common in every political party. Democrats aren't somehow above these shenanigans. This is where you find the true believers, the ones who've not only bought the party line wholesale but turned it into a religion. They're the ones who think of the other side as evil, and that excuses a whole lot of hypocrisy.

If you could point me at an incident where Democrats at the grass roots level have attained this level of douchebaggery, I'd appreciate it. That's not something I recall hearing a lot about... then again, I'm not American so I could have missed it.

crowdog66 wrote:

Drabbler wrote:

The thing is, when you get down to the "grass roots" level, this kind of behavior is common in every political party. Democrats aren't somehow above these shenanigans. This is where you find the true believers, the ones who've not only bought the party line wholesale but turned it into a religion. They're the ones who think of the other side as evil, and that excuses a whole lot of hypocrisy.

If you could point me at an incident where Democrats at the grass roots level have attained this level of douchebaggery, I'd appreciate it. That's not something I recall hearing a lot about... then again, I'm not American so I could have missed it.

Thing is, even all the instances of lefty d-baggery I can even vaguely recall, there's been some sort of official apology and/or distancing from Democrat higher ups. Ether someone going "Yeah, that was out of line" or "He's not with us."

The next such apology from the Right (that isn't of the "sorry you were offended" stripe) will be the first I've heard of.

Guys, chill. This was a county caucus -- the smallest, most local party unit there is (as you can see by the fact that they were in a single classroom) -- where a couple people engaged in petty behavior. I'm still trying to figure out why this is somehow worthy of national attention.

Freezer wrote:

The next such apology from the Right (that isn't of the "sorry you were offended" stripe) will be the first I've heard of.

There's one right in the article, from the head of the state party:

Quote :

"That's not something we condone," McNally said. "I apologize for the bad behavior of a few people. It's unfortunate that it happened. It does give us a black eye."

The article doesn't say if her follow-up in the next paragraph was part of her prepared apology or a response to a specific question someone asked afterward (thus implying the former), but her hesitancy and hedging suggest the latter.

We tend to be uncritical of articles that feed our own biases (in this case, that Republicans are bad), but we need to look at them with the same skepticism as those that challenge our preconceptions. In this case, whose response to the incident was to go to the press and why? Who in the press decided it was newsworthy and why? Is someone grinding an axe? Are several someones? As I said in my earlier post, pettiness in local politics is extremely common, but it usually only gets attention if it becomes violent or funny. [Think every video you've ever seen from a city council meeting.] This was neither, so why the coverage?

Off topic: YAY BRUCE CAMPBELL!

Drabbler wrote:

We tend to be uncritical of articles that feed our own biases (in this case, that Republicans are bad), but we need to look at them with the same skepticism as those that challenge our preconceptions. In this case, whose response to the incident was to go to the press and why? Who in the press decided it was newsworthy and why? Is someone grinding an axe? Are several someones? As I said in my earlier post, pettiness in local politics is extremely common, but it usually only gets attention if it becomes violent or funny. [Think every video you've ever seen from a city council meeting.] This was neither, so why the coverage?

Because part of the party platform that was adopted at the convention was "It is immoral to steal property rightfully earned by one person, and give it to another who has no claim or right to its benefits."

Kinda hard to argue that the government shouldn't steal from you when people who support that position are stealing stuff that doesn't belong to them.

Not to mention the whole "trying to get the teacher fired" angle.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Kinda hard to argue that the government shouldn't steal from you when people who support that position are stealing stuff that doesn't belong to them.

No, it's not. It's really not. You're making a "guilt by association" argument, and it's a weak (albeit sadly common) one. It's like saying nobody here's allowed to criticize furries because we're on this board with some. And seriously, the requirements for joining this board are stricter than the requirements for joining a political party.

crowdog66 wrote:

Drabbler wrote:

The thing is, when you get down to the "grass roots" level, this kind of behavior is common in every political party. Democrats aren't somehow above these shenanigans. This is where you find the true believers, the ones who've not only bought the party line wholesale but turned it into a religion. They're the ones who think of the other side as evil, and that excuses a whole lot of hypocrisy.

If you could point me at an incident where Democrats at the grass roots level have attained this level of douchebaggery, I'd appreciate it. That's not something I recall hearing a lot about... then again, I'm not American so I could have missed it.

Politically, "Well our guys don't _____" is a game you'll never win. There is an endless supply of douchebags on both sides, so both sides can safely rationalize it as such:

Our guys are well-meaning incompetents
They are malicious fascists
Our demonstrators are courageous people willing to stand up for what's right
Their demonstrators are a bunch of uneducated morons with misspelled signs and (and they start riots)

Et cetera. I've seen this behavior demonstrated on numerous forums of both political leanings.

Drabbler wrote:

Spotts1701 wrote:

Kinda hard to argue that the government shouldn't steal from you when people who support that position are stealing stuff that doesn't belong to them.

No, it's not. It's really not. You're making a "guilt by association" argument, and it's a weak (albeit sadly common) one.

You don't understand - the people who put that plank in the platform are the same people who took stuff from that classroom.

That platform plank is a Tea Party position, and these particular Republicans were heavily invested in the Tea Party.

So you are saying that the guy who stole the poster is the exact same individual who stood up at the convention and said, "Uh, guys, we should have a plank against stealing, because that's bad, okay?"

If not, then everything I said stands. Even if it does, everything I said stands. A good idea is a good idea, even if it comes from a hypocrite.


As Penguin says, all too often in, well, every walk of life, but certainly in politics, behaviors are judged not on their own merits but on who's doing them and which side they're on. "Our guy" gets caught with his pants down, it's a minor personal foible that shouldn't detract from his good work. "Your guy" gets caught, he's a horrible, evil person for having done such a thing and should be forced out of office along with everyone who supports him. The two sides can't come to an agreement, we're standing up for what we believe, while you're being partisan and argumentative for argument's sake.


EDIT: Quick question. Do you know what the requirements are for getting into one of these? You show up. [They may or may not check to see that you're at least a registered party member, but that's it.] If you're a registered Democrat, you're of the same rank these people are. If you went to some county meeting and swiped a poster, do you think the entire Democratic Party should be held up to worldwide ridicule? Or that the head of the state party should have to publicly apologize because you tried to get some teacher fired for being a teabagger? If your answer is yes, then fair enough; go forward in all your beliefs. If your answer is no, then maybe some introspection's in order.

Drabbler wrote:

Four solid paragraphs of equivocation fallacy

The "oh, everybody does it" argument is the stupidest, laziest critique of our political system imaginable. It's a transparent ploy to disguise your ignorance of politics as worldly wisdom and an attempt to pass down judgment from your high horse. That you think partisanship is the problem, or even a problem, in politics show you have no understanding whatsoever of how politics functions. Hint: it's never a bad thing to vote in your own self-interests. That's how the system works. It's when people vote against their self-interests that you start having problems.