"Gorean Living" -- Fantasy-themed BDSM without all the cool fantasy stuff that's only fantasy.

rae wrote:

The moment a sub is required to submit to something like that is the moment it becomes an abusive relationship. If someone must 'fail as a slave' to be a decent parent or person, then there is something very, very wrong with the relationship.

I FULLY agree with you there! That is exactly why I say that. I also have said many times (on the GL site and elsewhere) that just because someone is not a suitable slave for one person (whether because the person is a psycho/idiot, or for more mundane incompatibility reasons), does not mean they will not be the perfect slave for someone else.

rae wrote:

Also, making a woman give up custody of her children? Yeeeah, that's involving other people who are not a part of the relationship and that is so incredibly sick and wrong.

I'm inclined to agree there as well. In my opinion, if you want a slave without kids, then find a bloody slave without kids - DUH!
Though, if someone is willing to give up custody of their children for a relationship, then perhaps said children are better off with someone who puts them as first priority!

rae wrote:

So srsly, having read the first Gor book? Every man in it is so incredibly puerile and weak. Their egos are all like balloons; puffed up with nothing of substance, easily deflated, and makes the most unbecoming sounds while they're shrinking down to size.

They actually do get better, and characters are developed/introduced who are not what you describe.

Lol yeah, because one shitty sci-fi series has the patent on "honesty" and "honor". I believe murder and stealing are bad... welp, I must be a Jew, then!

And no, the books are awful. I picked one up, and wound up spending 30 pages at a slave market with the most bland, cardboard cutout protagonist I've ever had to endure in a piece of literature before. When the """adventure""" finally began some 2/3rds of the way into the thing, I was so bored that if I didn't skip the next 5 chapters, I was going to claw my skin off. So I did, and much to my despair, it was more of the same and I clearly didn't miss anything of importance. I never finished it. The movie was better.

And for someone that keeps claiming that the "Gorean Lifestyle" isn't BDSM, you don't seem to really know what a lifestyle is, OR what BDSM is. A belief =/= a lifestyle. And a master/slave arrangement is BDSM, sorry not sorry. The SM part of the acronym isn't just for sadism and masochism. (Though you would have to be pretty masochistic to say you're Gorean.)

And this isn't even touching on all the raging misogyny and gender essentialism that fuels Norman's 30-year hardon muchly. If being a sexist, transphobic, homophobic prick that is scared of science is part of your "lifestyle" (and I imagine it would have to be for you to be so pathetic to identify so strongly with his books) then youuuuu can go fuck yourself and don't let the door dominate you on the way out. (Because such is its nature.)

wow, much bigot

such dumb

many pity

bahahaha "she should've gotten the hell out" of an abusive relationship where she was expected to behave like a slave

nice one

fapfapfap wrote:

Lol yeah, because one shitty sci-fi series has the patent on "honesty" and "honor". I believe murder and stealing are bad... welp, I must be a Jew, then!

Funny, I don't recall stating, or even implying that Gorean philosophies/ideals had the market cornered on those things. You seem to be making up these statements yourself and attributing them to me. A great many other belief systems include a some, or even all of the individual bits of things that make up Gorean philosophies, but it is the specific way that those are laid out which makes it Gorean, rather than something else.

fapfapfap wrote:

And no, the books are awful. <...> The movie was better.

The books are not for everyone, nor are the specific set of beliefs espoused within. (Not referring to a hodgepodge of selected quotes, taken out of context here, but the actual ideals which emerge if one takes the time to read the books in order.) The film was FAR worse than the worst bits of belabouring the point in any of the books! But that is simply my opinion. You're welcome to yours.

fapfapfap wrote:

And for someone that keeps claiming that the "Gorean Lifestyle" isn't BDSM, you don't seem to really know what a lifestyle is, OR what BDSM is. A belief =/= a lifestyle.

I am quite familiar with the definition of, "lifestyle". Are you? I am also very familiar with BDSM, considering I've been a practitioner of such for well over 20 years now.
I have not said anywhere, at any point, that being Gorean is a "lifestyle". It is not. It is living by a set of ideals/beliefs/philosophies, which are found in the books. That could be considered a "lifestyle", in the same way that living by any belief system could be considered such, but it is not in any way related to or part of BDSM.

fapfapfap wrote:

And a master/slave arrangement is BDSM, sorry not sorry. The SM part of the acronym isn't just for sadism and masochism. (Though you would have to be pretty masochistic to say you're Gorean.)

Yes, a M/s arrangement is the D/s part of BDSM. I am fully aware of that. What you may be failing to grasp is that M/s is NOT what Gor is about. Being Gorean has absolutely nothing to do with owning, being, using, or otherwise engaging in any way with slaves. Gor is not a Master/slave arrangement.  Stating that one would have to be masochistic to be Gorean makes no sense whatsoever.
You don't want to be Gorean. I get it. Good for you! Like I said, it isn't for everyone, but throwing out statements like yours when you really have no clue is just foolish.

fapfapfap wrote:

And this isn't even touching on all the raging misogyny and gender essentialism that fuels Norman's 30-year hardon muchly. If being a sexist, transphobic, homophobic prick that is scared of science is part of your "lifestyle"...

They aren't.
The ONLY thing you've included here that is even close to the truth is sexism, if you are on the bandwagon claiming that stating that men and women are different, and that men and women, in the majority, tend to have different, yet complimentary skills from one another, is sexist.

As far as the rest of these claims, I don't know where you're getting them. I know it isn't from the Gor books or from the Gorean community (meaning those who live by the philosophies in their every day, real lives - not people doing BDSM with Gorean flavouring, role players, gamers, or assholes who use "Gor" as an excuse to be abusive pricks)

Misogyny is defined as, "hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women". Goreans revere and cherish women, and free women are treated with great respect, so long as they show themselves worthy of such (just as Gorean free men must earn the respect of their peers).
Transgender issues did not come up in any of the books, ever. Homosexuality was only touched on briefly, and was dealt with in a neutral fashion. The sciences were extremely advanced in the Gor series.  

fapfapfap wrote:

(and I imagine it would have to be for you to be so pathetic to identify so strongly with his books) then youuuuu can go fuck yourself and don't let the door dominate you on the way out. (Because such is its nature.)

OHHHHHH I'm sorry! I misunderstood! I thought this was about facts. Now I understand. It is about how I am pathetic and my way of life is WRONG cause it isn't your way, and I should fuck myself and go away. Of course. That makes much more sense and isn't at ALL unreasonable or intolerant. Got it.

fapfapfap wrote:

wow, much bigot

Quite!

Cyberwulf wrote:

bahahaha "she should've gotten the hell out" of an abusive relationship where she was expected to behave like a slave

nice one

Oh... Do you disagree? I had this totally silly idea that once consent was withdrawn, the person was no longer a slave... But what do I know? I'm one of those crazy,woman hating, sick Goreans who are clearly doing it wrong.
Please DO enlighten me!

Mr.Doobie wrote:

So where would I find one of these Gor books? Not on the internet... but..... like.... in an irl place? Would I be able to pick them up in the fantasy/sci-fi section of Barnes and Noble or would I have to go to an adult book store or what?

I saw them at Powell's once, but they might have been used. I doubt they would be at Barnes and Noble just because they are not likely to sell well enough to justify the shelf space.

khao.wolfkat wrote:

Oh... Do you disagree? I had this totally silly idea that once consent was withdrawn, the person was no longer a slave... But what do I know? I'm one of those crazy,woman hating, sick Goreans who are clearly doing it wrong.
Please DO enlighten me!

What Wulf is trying to say is that it's not as simple as "getting the hell out", what with battered spouse syndrome being a thing and all that. Whether it's because they empathize with their abuser ("I deserved it because I pissed them off"), they are afraid of leaving because their partner might hurt them or themselves if they leave, etc or some combination of factors, "getting the hell out" is easier said than done. It's easy to be an outsider to the relationship and say "he/she should just leave them", much harder when you're in their shoes and lived their life (and sometimes their life included abusive guardians when they were growing up so all they know about expressing love is twisted and it's something they're too used to).

I mean, I can only imagine what it must be like to be in the kind of abusive relationship where you are expected to be a slave and what kind of person would be the abuser in that kind of situation. It's probably pretty horrifying and I can only imagine the horrible ways you'd internalize that abusive dynamic.

^^ that and "she should've gotten the hell out" implies that any further abuse is her own fault for staying

also, the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the abused party manages to leave

For the love of little fluffy puppies, no one pay money for this horrid shit. I honestly believe that The Eye of Argon is a better story. You can read them for free here

Long has been my slumber, and grim my dreams.

Who invokes the rites of thread necromancy? Who among you awakens the Chewer of Scenery?

SPEAK.