The Last Dances with Ferngully's Samurai Wolves in Space (wo

VileCorp wrote:

gaijinguy wrote:

KelinciHutan wrote:

summary of why the plan was bad

Well, from what I understand, he was telling them to "hold the high ground" against an enemy that could nuke them from orbit (James Cameron having apparently forgotten that this is the only way to be sure.)

And wasn't there some sort of energy vortex on that spot, which caused all of the sensors not to work? And supposedly this was helpful, because then the military wouldn't be able to use tracking missiles. But seeing how easily the apes were moved down by machine guns, I don't see why they'd want to waste tracking missiles.

Except that that field that messed up their instruments didn't exist just right on top of the Tree. It covered an area of some reasonable size, most of which was not right over the terribly important thing they're trying to protect.

VileCorp wrote:

gaijinguy wrote:

KelinciHutan wrote:

That plan sucked. It sucked a lot. And it sucked entirely because he picked the worst possible spot to stage it. They've got an area of some size (presumably twenty kilometers-ish, though the film is a bit vague on that) to have this fight in, and they set up their ambush right on top of the Tree of Souls. Seriously, right on top of it. So when they disable the ship with the massive explosives on it, it goes down right next to the Tree of Souls. They had no way of knowing that it would miss the Tree when it crashed. For all Jake knew, he'd take out the Tree by crashing the ship he'd just disabled right on top of it, which--being packed full of explosives--would quite possibly explode, just to add insult to injury. In one tiny stroke of bad luck, they could have lost everything they were trying to protect just because they ambushed the bad guys too close to the Tree.

There had to be a better spot. Had to. That was a bad plan.

Well, from what I understand, he was telling them to "hold the high ground" against an enemy that could nuke them from orbit (James Cameron having apparently forgotten that this is the only way to be sure.)

And wasn't there some sort of energy vortex on that spot, which caused all of the sensors not to work? And supposedly this was helpful, because then the military wouldn't be able to use tracking missiles. But seeing how easily the apes were moved down by machine guns, I don't see why they'd want to waste tracking missiles.

Has nuke technology regressed significantly from the present? Interferometrics (TM Star Trek Voyager) notwithstanding, it would have been the perfect tool: you can preprogram it with a course (no need for a laser or other form of active target acquisition), would have eliminated all resistance in one fell swoop, AND would have prepped the site for mining besides. Why send in ground assets at all when all you have to do is nuke the right area code?

gaijinguy wrote:

Why send in ground assets at all when all you have to do is nuke the right area code?

But then you wouldn't get the hippy-tree loving-faggot-crowd pleasing happy ending.

gaijinguy wrote:

Interferometrics (TM Star Trek Voyager)

What, really?

Saw movie. It's nice, but bland. 3D is useless for me, since I often can't see it right, so I saw it normal.

Bet it'll look good on Blu-Ray, I'll give it that.

The only thing that bothers me is that the furries are probably having a field day with this one. And I've read that they want to make a trilogy? I have NO idea how that'll work out, since this seems more like a self-contained fairy tale that doesn't need sequels, but... oh well...

Ceres wrote:

Saw movie. It's nice, but bland. 3D is useless for me, since I often can't see it right, so I saw it normal.

Bet it'll look good on Blu-Ray, I'll give it that.

The only thing that bothers me is that the furries are probably having a field day with this one. And I've read that they want to make a trilogy? I have NO idea how that'll work out, since this seems more like a self-contained fairy tale that doesn't need sequels, but... oh well...

A trilogy, huh? Hmm...and then twenty years from now, James Cameron will make three prequels.

Ceres wrote:

And I've read that they want to make a trilogy? I have NO idea how that'll work out, since this seems more like a self-contained fairy tale that doesn't need sequels, but... oh well...

Oh, right, he planned sequels in case it succeeds. And it's succeeding liek whoa. Weeeeeell, as much as I like the blue non-furry smurfcats, I'm going to boycott any planned sequel starting now. This movie doesn't need to be ruined by sequels.

Snake Bandage wrote:

Ceres wrote:

And I've read that they want to make a trilogy? I have NO idea how that'll work out, since this seems more like a self-contained fairy tale that doesn't need sequels, but... oh well...

Oh, right, he planned sequels in case it succeeds. And it's succeeding liek whoa. Weeeeeell, as much as I like the blue non-furry smurfcats, I'm going to boycott any planned sequel starting now. This movie doesn't need to be ruined by sequels.

Well, technically the video game is a prequel, so that's two down. =/

Kinda sucks they put so much effort into the graphics of the game to make it 3D, only to forget that nobody in their right mind would fork out $14k for a new 3D TV.

Ceres wrote:

Saw movie. It's nice, but bland. 3D is useless for me, since I often can't see it right, so I saw it normal.

Bet it'll look good on Blu-Ray, I'll give it that.

The only thing that bothers me is that the furries are probably having a field day with this one. And I've read that they want to make a trilogy? I have NO idea how that'll work out, since this seems more like a self-contained fairy tale that doesn't need sequels, but... oh well...

As was previously mentioned, there is nothing stopping the entire Earth army from coming back and razing the entire planet to the ground. Which would actually make a good sequel. "Backwards, Ill-Tempered Blue Fuckwastes Get Brutally Murdered Over Two and a Half Hours, IN THREE DIMENSIONS!!1!"

That I'll pay to see. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Quote :

This movie doesn't need to be ruined by sequels.

By the sound of it, this movie was ruined by itself. It sounds like Michael Bay in full special effects wank meets the preachingest anti-business movie in all of history.

While heavy-handed, I can't totally hate the message. But I didn't see it as anti-business as much as anti-colonialism.

Spain's point of view while taking over the New World is pretty much the bad guys' point of view of the movie. "We gave them roads, schools and Christianity! What else do they want? The live in trees, blahblahblah."

Let's be frank, though. This movie is pretty, but it sure as hell doesn't deserve the attention it receives.

In fact, I'm far more concerned with the reactions of the people who see the movie. You'd think humanity has gotten over the 'kill the natives and take their shiny rocks' by now and see the movie for the cliche that it is, but I'm amazed at the fangirling of Colonel Dude at the TVTropes entry. It's the equivalent of fangirling Herman Cortes after he wiped out Mexico.

The movie had a message tailored for 5-years-old and the point still flew over a billion heads. It would destroy my faith in humanity, but the little dude died of heart failure back at GAFF.

Avatar is Anvilicious, but then again, some Anvils still need to be dropped.

Ceres wrote:

Intelligent and well-balanced commentary

This. I went in expecting "Michael Bay in full special effects wank meets the preachingest anti-business movie in all of history", to quote Mikey, or something similar, and it was at least a few steps up from that.

Mikey wrote:

As was previously mentioned, there is nothing stopping the entire Earth army from coming back and razing the entire planet to the ground.

Except the planet is five years' journey from Earth (and that could be relativity-contracted shiptime, so the objective transit time could be even more). If Earth is (as implied in the movie) in dire straits, then resources might well be too scarce to do this. Moreover, the fact that the mining operation was a for-profit corporate venture suggests that it wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things (i.e. the unobtainium wasn't needed to save Earth/move people elsewhere), so why would a government send a huge military force all that way to avenge it? Not saying it's impossible, though - I expect the sequels will involve more humans visiting Pandora's system in some way.

On the original script: I imagine a lot of the stuff about Earth being a crapsack world was cut for time. It also might have actually made the movie *more* anvilicious. A better device to make Jake the war-leader would have been good, though.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

By the sound of it, this movie was ruined by itself. It sounds like Michael Bay in full special effects wank meets the preachingest anti-business movie in all of history.

Don't you dare bring Michael Bay into this. In Avatar you could actually tell what's going on in the action scenes. When you're watching a Michael Bay movie, The action scenes are so incoherent you don't understand what the shit is going on AND you're lucky if you don't get a headache.

I thought this movie was cool and the scene with the trees being mowed down was really heartbreaking.

Haha, and the sex scene was kind of hot in a weird way.

Ceres wrote:

While heavy-handed, I can't totally hate the message. But I didn't see it as anti-business as much as anti-colonialism.

Spain's point of view while taking over the New World is pretty much the bad guys' point of view of the movie. "We gave them roads, schools and Christianity! What else do they want? The live in trees, blahblahblah."

If y

Let's be frank, though. This movie is pretty, but it sure as hell doesn't deserve the attention it receives.

Ceres wrote:

In fact, I'm far more concerned with the reactions of the people who see the movie. You'd think humanity has gotten over the 'kill the natives and take their shiny rocks' by now and see the movie for the cliche that it is,

"We need shiny rocks to survive" is an interesting plot point, and one that Princess Mononoke, for instance, explored at length with respect to both sides. Desperate times, desperate measures, all that sort of thing, not to mention striking a balance between morality and pragmatism.

"The military and businesses are EEEEEVVVVVVULLLLL," not so much. Note how all the people who suffer for what they do are shown on screen, while all the people who suffer for what they don't accomplish are very carefully kept aside. A million is a statistic.

Ceres wrote:

but I'm amazed at the fangirling of Colonel Dude at the TVTropes entry. It's the equivalent of fangirling Herman Cortes after he wiped out Mexico.

From what I understatnd, Colonel Dude is a complete badass, and they're always entertaining to watch. And people did fangirl over Cortez IRL; when you consider that he was going up against the Aztecs, it's not really that surprising that many of the local tribes chose his side.

Quote :

"The military and businesses are EEEEEVVVVVVULLLLL," not so much. Note how all the people who suffer for what they do are shown on screen, while all the people who suffer for what they don't accomplish are very carefully kept aside. A million is a statistic.

Is it ever established in supporting material that the unobtainium is needed to save Earth/humanity? It certainly wasn't explained in the movie what the stuff was actually for, though it appeared to have either anti-gravity or super-electromagnetic levitation properties which I can certainly see being useful for getting people into space en masse. It just seems to me that if the unobtainium was the Last And Only Hope For Mankind, a) one of the antagonists would have said so at some point to justify their actions (as opposed to just saying "it's worth lots of money") and b) the Pandora expedition would have been government-run as opposed to run by a shareholder-controlled corporation and policed by hired guns.

gaijinguy wrote:

Ceres wrote:

but I'm amazed at the fangirling of Colonel Dude at the TVTropes entry. It's the equivalent of fangirling Herman Cortes after he wiped out Mexico.

From what I understatnd, Colonel Dude is a complete badass, and they're always entertaining to watch. And people did fangirl over Cortez IRL; when you consider that he was going up against the Aztecs, it's not really that surprising that many of the local tribes chose his side.

But... but... HE LOOKED AT THE EXPLOSIONS.

Only cool guys don't look at explosions.

Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this.

While watching Avatar, I could not help but draw comparisons between the concept of Eywa (a worldwide tree network with a consciousness) and the Internet. The humans and their Avatars were just that; humans who went online, using online avatars.

The Na'Vi themselves would make a neural connection to other "users" (e.g. the Mountain Banshee), which is remarkably similar to chatting online with users from other countries.

The concept of ancestral memory being stored in Eywa is similar to a network hub, where users can make connections and access data stored before they were born.

When the hero connected to Eywa through the Tree of Souls and informed her of the impending attack, it was as though a network user sent an email to the network admin. The hero of the movie went online, made a P2P connection, and the human invaders got spammed into oblivion.

When the herd of "Hammerhead Titanothere" attacked the military, it was as though 4chan had fallen upon them like the wrath of God, sent by Eywa, a.k.a. "Anonymous".

When the "Thanator" allowed the hero's love interest to ride, it was as though an IRC moderator gave a user the Op status, allowing her banhammer privileges.

Thus the trolls (humans) were banned from the server (Pandora).

That's a much more entertaining interpretation of the movie! :D Comparisons between the avatar controller and MMORPG controllers have already been made, and I've seen someone refer to the Na'vi's braid-interface thingies as 'USB tentacles' or something similar.

Really, there's more to Avatar than blue furries and a Green Aesop, which is why it's better than a lot of other movies of its type.

Keith Fraser wrote:

Really, there's more to Avatar than blue furries and a Green Aesop, which is why it's better than a lot of other movies of its type.

Since most movies "of its type" are uniformly shitty, is that really a good thing?

I went in wanting to see animated hairless Ronsos, and I got what I wanted. Therefore, I was pretty happy with the film and ended up enjoying it quite a bit.

I have to admit though, I kind of thought of the internet with the tree thing as well. Though nowhere near as in depth as Manny... XD

Re: Manny:

I don't understand what the actual Navi would be in you batshit interesting theory. Please explain.

Also, it's nothing personal, but I've been waiting forever to use this picture.

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FryingPan wrote:

Keith Fraser wrote:

Really, there's more to Avatar than blue furries and a Green Aesop, which is why it's better than a lot of other movies of its type.

Since most movies "of its type" are uniformly shitty, is that really a good thing?

Your Mileage May Vary.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Re: Manny:

I don't understand what the actual Navi would be in you batshit interesting theory. Please explain.

HEY! LISTEN!

That damned annoying Navi would be eaten by a Mountain Banshee.

Manny wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Re: Manny:

I don't understand what the actual Navi would be in you batshit interesting theory. Please explain.

HEY! LISTEN!

That damned annoying Navi would be eaten by a Mountain Banshee.

We would thank the Internet Eywa for that.