Great-grandmother, 72, dares cops to taser her... so they do.

Story here

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Video released by the Travis County Constable's office shows Deputy Chris Bieze confronting 72-year-old Kathryn Winkfein after stopping her for speeding on May 11 just outside Austin.

Just a simple, routine traffic stop so far...

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"You're going to shove me? You're going to shove a 72-year-old woman?" she yelled.

Only if you deserve it...

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Winkfein told KTBC-TV in Austin that she did nothing to provoke the use of the Taser. Though the video shows otherwise.

I wasn't able to find the video on this, but I saw a clip of it on TV. They had to use the censor button quite frequently on it.

Quote :

Precinct 3 Sgt. Maj. Gary Griffin said Bieze used the Taser only after Winkfein became combative.

There was no immediate comment from Winkfein on Wednesday

Although I'm sure if she had commented, based on what I saw, it couldn't be published on a work safe site.

Well, you know what they say... if you play with a rattlesnake, don't be surprised when you get bit.

What? I wanna see this video now!

Ah, found the vid...
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Do not taze me, you young whipersnapARAARAAAARAARAARRRAAARRR

I loled when I saw this.

I was like "BITCH YOU ASKED FOR IT."

gaijinguy wrote:

Do not taze me, you young whipersnapARAARAAAARAARAARRRAAARRR

I'm not a bad person, even though I found this comment hilarious.

I wonder if this woman suffers from Alzheimers? This behaviour just doesn't make sense.

Nurvingiel wrote:

gaijinguy wrote:

Do not taze me, you young whipersnapARAARAAAARAARAARRRAAARRR

I'm not a bad person, even though I found this comment hilarious.

I wonder if this woman suffers from Alzheimers? This behaviour just doesn't make sense.

I don't know. She could just be a major bitch.

SokMunkie wrote:

Nurvingiel wrote:

gaijinguy wrote:

Do not taze me, you young whipersnapARAARAAAARAARAARRRAAARRR

I'm not a bad person, even though I found this comment hilarious.

I wonder if this woman suffers from Alzheimers? This behaviour just doesn't make sense.

I don't know. She could just be a major bitch.

At least from what I've seen in my cases dealing with nursing homes, there seem to be a lot of old women who do their level best to make any interaction with them as difficult as possible and feel that their age means they should be able to get away with anything. You can usually identify them because they proceed each instance of asshattery with, "I am a [age] year old woman and..."

Great video. He tried to handcuff her once and she pulled away, so he threw the handcuffs on the ground and tased her. That's a reasonable reaction to a little old lady half his size who he certainly couldn't effortlessly throw halfway across the hard shoulder.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Great video. He tried to handcuff her once and she pulled away, so he threw the handcuffs on the ground and tased her. That's a reasonable reaction to a little old lady half his size who he certainly couldn't effortlessly throw halfway across the hard shoulder.

I think that cops need more training in unarmed combat. It seems to me that some cops are too quick to use weapons, but if they do have a weapon and they don't know how to subdue someone well without one... they're going to use it.

It's always one bad cop that makes them all look bad. But I do think that more unarmed self-defence training would be time well spent.

Edit: Another aspect of this is that just because someone is old, doesn't mean they're harmless. You do start losing muscle strength when you're elderly, but that doesn't mean you'll be as weak as a kitten! Cop have to assume that aggressive people can hurt them; they have no other choice. If they assume that some people are not going to hurt them, that could cost them their lives.

The 88-year-old anti-semite in the other thread is not exactly harmless. I can only conclude that old people are has nasty as the rest of us.

Nurvingiel wrote:

Another aspect of this is that just because someone is old, doesn't mean they're harmless. You do start losing muscle strength when you're elderly, but that doesn't mean you'll be as weak as a kitten! Cop have to assume that aggressive people can hurt them; they have no other choice. If they assume that some people are not going to hurt them, that could cost them their lives.

The 88-year-old anti-semite in the other thread is not exactly harmless. I can only conclude that old people are has nasty as the rest of us.

Yes, but she wasn't armed and she wasn't violent. She was pulling away/evading him, but she never threw a punch or shoved him.

I'm sick of cops using tasers as a method of subduing someone who doesn't pose a threat. Tasers are supposed to used with the same caution as guns; they are only supposed to be drawn in the same instances as one would use deadly force. In other words, if a suspect is fleeing, or is suspected of concealing a weapon, or is using violent force against an officer. They are NOT supposed be used because you're lazy and don't feel like wrestling a bit.

Austin cops are known for being all around assholes, so this isn't really new to me.

VB wrote:

I'm sick of cops using tasers as a method of subduing someone who doesn't pose a threat. Tasers are supposed to used with the same caution as guns; they are only supposed to be drawn in the same instances as one would use deadly force. In other words, if a suspect is fleeing, or is suspected of concealing a weapon, or is using violent force against an officer. They are NOT supposed be used because you're lazy and don't feel like wrestling a bit.

Depends entirely on the department's use of force continuum, and how clear it is to officers. According to these (linking, because it's late and I keep screwing up the image hosting), tasers are considered low-to-moderate force, NOT deadly force. They can cause deaths, true, but IIRC, the rates are about the same as other "non-lethal" methods.

Chart 1

Chart 2

Chart 3

ETA, as I found the original use of force chart which is still used by Chicago P.D. Even on this, tasers are not deadly force. They are the next-closest, but not considered deadly.

VB wrote:

Nurvingiel wrote:

Another aspect of this is that just because someone is old, doesn't mean they're harmless. You do start losing muscle strength when you're elderly, but that doesn't mean you'll be as weak as a kitten! Cop have to assume that aggressive people can hurt them; they have no other choice. If they assume that some people are not going to hurt them, that could cost them their lives.

The 88-year-old anti-semite in the other thread is not exactly harmless. I can only conclude that old people are has nasty as the rest of us.

Yes, but she wasn't armed and she wasn't violent. She was pulling away/evading him, but she never threw a punch or shoved him.

I could only find an edited video. In the full version I saw, she wasn't armed but was violent, as after her third warning she tried to push him into the street and traffic.

Pardon if I seem heartless... but f*ck Grandma.

If she were 22 instead of 72, would any of us (well, those not already of the "cops are thugs" mindset) think of her as anything other than a mouthy twatwaffle that got precisely what she was asking for?

Stupidity should hurt, I've always said. This did.

After the initial "Hoshit, if my mother ever makes it to 72, this will be her" moment, I was utterly shocked that a police officer would have such a low threshold for the use of a weapon. Of course, since it's the edited video, this was probably the news' intent. Thanks, shitty news stations.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Great video. He tried to handcuff her once and she pulled away, so he threw the handcuffs on the ground and tased her. That's a reasonable reaction to a little old lady half his size who he certainly couldn't effortlessly throw halfway across the hard shoulder.

You know, even with Quamp's addition to what the uncut video featured, I absolutely agree with what you're saying here. Even if she tried to push him into traffic... Just jesus. That's violent and dangerous, yes, but holy fuck that guy was quick to use a weapon. I mean, I guess that's a typical response from somewhere living in a country where private guns are illegal towards another that allows private firearms, but... It wreaks of "undisciplined."

Nurvingiel wrote:

Edit: Another aspect of this is that just because someone is old, doesn't mean they're harmless. You do start losing muscle strength when you're elderly, but that doesn't mean you'll be as weak as a kitten! Cop have to assume that aggressive people can hurt them; they have no other choice. If they assume that some people are not going to hurt them, that could cost them their lives.

Undisciplined. Absolutely undisciplined. It doesn't matter how strong that tiny little old woman was, the police officer should have been on his guard for physical violence when she was pulling away and mouthing off, and he should be able to subdue her without a weapon. At the very least, he should be able to react quickly and confidently enough to prevent any real damage.

So one would think.

I'm not going to pretend I know any of the most likely tons of bureaucratic, political, or practical problems with their police force. I think I've just been watching too much Wegmisbruikers. o_o I'm pretty sure if a police officer did anything like that here, he or she would be kicked off the force so fast and hard he or she wouldn't know what the fuck hit them.

Freezer, did you even watch the video, or were you too busy pumping your yogurt gun to the thought of little old ladies being tased to do so?

The cop has at least a foot on her. He moves her halfway across the hard shoulder with one shove. He attempted to handcuff her once and when she pulled away he threw the cuffs on the ground in a temper and tased her. If she was twenty eight but the obvious height and strength differences were still present I'd say the same thing. Open your fucking eyes and stop assuming anyone who objects is all FUCK FA POLICE, you dumb shit.

My first thought was also that this would be my mom someday.

He apparently warned her five times to move or get tased*, I'm not sure if it was really as though she dared him and he just did it.

They both acted really inappropriately for something so simple as a speeding ticket.

"I'm old and cranky, I don't accept things!"
"I'm a cop, and I don't accept you not accepting things, but I have a tazer! bzzbzz."


*(tased? tazed? tazered? None of these seem to be words according to my spellcheck :/ )

Sparrow wrote:

Depends entirely on the department's use of force continuum, and how clear it is to officers. According to these (linking, because it's late and I keep screwing up the image hosting), tasers are considered low-to-moderate force, NOT deadly force. They can cause deaths, true, but IIRC, the rates are about the same as other "non-lethal" methods.

Chart 1

Chart 2

Chart 3

ETA, as I found the original use of force chart which is still used by Chicago P.D. Even on this, tasers are not deadly force. They are the next-closest, but not considered deadly.

That's not what I've always been told, but okay. Chart 1 is nice and vague, I'm sure officers in training are very clear on when it is okay to use certain tactics just from that.

Either way, that's just great! Originally tasers were considered next to deadly force, and according to the Chicago P.D.'s chart, only to be used in volatile situations where the person resisting arrest was aggressive. Now they're okay to use if someone doesn't want to get out of their car, is yelling at an officer, or is just being a pain in the ass and the officer doesn't want to deal with them. Oh, progress.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Freezer, did you even watch the video, or were you too busy pumping your yogurt gun to the thought of little old ladies being tased to do so?

Saw the clip. Stand by my ruling of "F*ck Grandma". (Nice image, BTW)

Quote :

The cop has at least a foot on her. He moves her halfway across the hard shoulder with one shove. He attempted to handcuff her once and when she pulled away he threw the cuffs on the ground in a temper and tased her. If she was twenty eight but the obvious height and strength differences were still present I'd say the same thing. Open your fucking eyes and stop assuming anyone who objects is all FUCK FA POLICE, you dumb shit.

Your point?

Never said the cop was in the right. I simply refuse to spare sympathies for someone that stupid and hateful. (Your gentle chidings notwithstanding)

Well, they probably shouldn't have done it... but if she demanded it, they didn't have a whole lot of choice, especially if she was acting up.

Okay, I may be a liiiitle biased here, but that video has me almost frothing with rage. I've been tased before, and it hurts like a motherfucker. I'm so sick of cops, who are supposedly supposed to be trained to take down a person when they only have their bare hands to rely on, be completely dependant on one weapon as if it's their only option ever. I mean, imagine if this guy didn't have his taser on him? Oh no, he'd be completely helpless against a 72 year old lady half his size that practically fell over with a light shove!  What could he possibly do??? D8

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I mean, imagine if this guy didn't have
his taser on him? Oh no, he'd be completely helpless against a 72 year
old lady half his size that practically fell over with a light shove!
What could he possibly do??? D8

Probably bust out the pepper spray.

I'm not kidding.

Cops are trained to end conflict as quickly as possible, while protecting themselves. Damage is to be avoided, if possible. Pain... not so much. Everyone want to say "Oh, that poor little old lady." At that point, that cop doesn't know whether or not that "poor little old lady" is trying to reach for a weapon or bolt for it or is just being spiteful for spites sake.

Could the cop have shown some restraint? Sure. Was he required to? Probably not.

ETA: I take it back. The deputy handled a combative, uncooperative subject as well as could be expected. Really, you get warned five times "comply or you get tazered" and your only response is "You're gonna taze a 72-year old woman?" my sympathy for you will be sorely lacking. I would ask those of you in the "That mean ol' cop" camp: Just what should he have done? Manhandle her? Let her go because she's old? Again I say: FUCK GRANDMA.

Freezer wrote:

Just what should he have done? Manhandle her?

Yes. He could very easily have just pinned her down, since he was twice her size, and had her stumbling with a light shove. I'm not saying he should have let her go scot free because she's old; actually, I'm not sure where I even suggested anything close to that, and same with anyone else who's posted. She should be given the same charges as anyone who resists arrest. I'm just saying he used way too much force on someone who he didn't need to use that much force on. It's kind of sad when a policeman is so used to just going ZAP OK LETS GO even when its with a criminal they could just pin down easily without breaking a sweat.

Again, tasers. Hurt like a motherfucker, paralyze you, can potentially fuck you up. It should be saved only for the most agressive offenders who can seriously cause a lot of damage, are seriously beating down on a cop, and no other force is able to hold them back. Using them on an old lady half your size throwing a temper tantrum? I'm sorry, but that's just pathetic.

^Spoken like someone who's never had to restrain someone who doesn't want ot be restrained. So what if he does muscle up on her and she breaks something or bruises up? (Remember: Old woman).

The tazer did what the tazer is supposed to do.