Mary Sues in Original Fiction

So in my speech class, we have to give a "How To" speech. I decided (for some reason) to do a speech on "How to Identify a Mary Sue in a Novel". Now, I know everything about Mary Sues, and I already know how to explain them to the class. However, I was trying to think of examples, and the only thing that came to mind was Twilight. Could anybody list some other novels with Mary Sues in them?

-Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody
-Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth books
-Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

More examples can be found at The Canon Sue Report

Ayla, from the Children of the Earth series by Jean M. Auel - especially everything following The Clan of the Cavebear.
And a rare example of a Mary Sue done well: Mary Poppins.

Hmmm... yeah, but I think the POINT of Mary Poppins was that she was practically perfect in every way. That was part of her character. Nobody said, "No, she's not perfect; look at all these flaws I say she has but she never uses."

They admitted straight out that part of the entire thing about Mary Poppins was that she was supposed to be perfect.

Oh, man, the Sue of all original Sues: Anita Blake from Laurell K. Hamilton's series. Not only is it a self-insert, but she keeps finding new and speshul powers every book, every man wants to sleep with her, she's pretty yet deadly, etc etc etc.

Maximilia wrote:

Oh, man, the Sue of all original Sues: Anita Blake from Laurell K. Hamilton's series. Not only is it a self-insert, but she keeps finding new and speshul powers every book, every man wants to sleep with her, she's pretty yet deadly, etc etc etc.

I wasn't sure if Anita Blake was a Sue since I only read the first two books. That's good to know.

Thanks for listing some examples, guys. It's greatly appreciated.

THe first two books (actually the first four or five, I forget how many) aren't bad. Anything after Obsidian BUtterfly is nothing but a sex-romp with new and speshul powers and new and hotter men who want her. Even some of the ones before OB are pretty bad. Not horribly atrocious, but bad.

Motherfucking ERAGON.

That one goes without saying as much as the Drizzt books and Twilight do, though.

I don't remember which one, but one of Dean R. Koontz books had this Pollyanna-like protagonist wio was such a lovely person with such [i[wonderful[/i] body and such a tragic past... perfect teeth, check; blonde hair, check; orphaned, check; evil stepmother, check; intelligent, generous and selfless, check, check, and check...

Well, most of Koontz's books are like that, but this one is the first book I couldn't finish because of it.

Luke and Anakin Skywalker.
Captain James T. Kirk
Spock, somewhat
Captain Picard
Commander Riker
Lt. Geordi La Forge (His only real "flaw" is his inability to date & that comes up in 2 episodes total.)
Wesley Crusher

Mary Sues in general are dependent entirely on the environment around them. They have to have powers/abilities/whatever suitable to their environment. If a character is overpowered for the setting they're in, you run the risk of having a Mary Sue. You can avoid this by piling on more and more depth to them or by twisting them so that the viewer is unlikely to support them (and make it obvious that this is intentional or you wind up with another Wesley Crusher).

So I disagree with Skillet's choices of Spock, Picard, Riker, and Geordi as Sues. Kirk is borderline, it depends on who you ask. (Also, another one of Geordi's flaws is his blindness, though the VISOR tended to turn into more of an asset than a hindrance most of the time.)

Mary Poppins is also not a Sue because her perfection is intentional, the focus of the piece, and done in such a way that it doesn't get in the way of the other characters' personalities or plot lines. She is, however, unique in that she's perfect but not perfect in the style of a Sue. Then again, I didn't really like that movie, but my point still stands.

Hum... Mary Sues...

* Harry Potter
* Pretty much every character from Eragon
* Tek Janson (obviously intentional, but maybe a point on intentional Sues would be a useful)
* I would argue Menolly from the Dragonriders of Pern series, but I haven't read those books since I was fourteen so I only remember the most salient points.
* Robert Langdon from the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons
* That chick that Robert Langdon hangs out with, though I think it's a different chick in both novels. They're both Sues.
* Artemis Fowl or that fairy girl from those books? (same problem as Menolly except the age is even younger)

No, I would say that Menolly was a Sue.

Okay, good to hear.

James Bond, got to be one of the ultimate Stus.

Quote :

You can avoid this by piling on more and more depth to them or by twisting them so that the viewer is unlikely to support them (and make it obvious that this is intentional or you wind up with another Wesley Crusher).

It would also depend on the intent- like if someone seriously wanted to create a character like Wesley Crusher, or someone not as painfully annoying like Scrappy Doo, then it'd still be pretty damn awful.

Now there's Sues, and then there's badass characters, do not confuse them- the badasses have flaws, but they're underplayed due to limitations in media, pandering to what the audience would want to see/read, etc. It would also depend on how they're spun. 1950s Batman can definitely be considered a Stu in this regard, but different storytellers spin him in other directions. Another intentional anti-Sue device would be to make the heroes as flawed as the villains, (see Frank Miller's Batman graphic novels), but it just comes off as empty edginess.

And I really think that having a mostly heroic character with some flaws that aren't played up does not equal a Sue. Again it was likely the limitations at the time in what was acceptable to audiences. I mean hey, there are just some things you did not see on television back in the 1960s. But again, I have to agree with Doctor Professor Science when it comes to characters like Kirk. But uh, that's my two cents.

I'd say that Five-Year-Mission Kirk is borderline Sue, while movie Kirk (THE FIFTH MOVIE NEVER HAPPENED) is much less Sue-like.

Dr. Professor Science wrote:

I'd say that Five-Year-Mission Kirk is borderline Sue, while movie Kirk (THE FIFTH MOVIE NEVER HAPPENED) is much less Sue-like.

Same here.

Oh, here's some more:
Han Solo
Captain America


I'd go on to say something about Angelina Jolie but she's real.

If comic book characters count then, may I direct your attention to The Saint of Killers

Honestly, whatever I say to describe him won't do it justice. Just read the article.

the asylum wrote:

If comic book characters count then, may I direct your attention to The Saint of Killers

Honestly, whatever I say to describe him won't do it justice. Just read the article.

But... he's a badass!

I definitely see where you're coming from by calling him a sue (heck, I kind of agree), but since like three fifths of everything in Preacher was some form of taking-the-piss and borderline parody, I can live with a character like SoK.

Thank you for all of the feedback, but I already did my speech. I guess you can keep on discussing it, though.

How did the speech go, then?

Everybody said I did really well, but I don't find out my grade until Wednesday.

DarthDarthington wrote:

the asylum wrote:

If comic book characters count then, may I direct your attention to The Saint of Killers

Honestly, whatever I say to describe him won't do it justice. Just read the article.

But... he's a badass!

I definitely see where you're coming from by calling him a sue (heck, I kind of agree), but since like three fifths of everything in Preacher was some form of taking-the-piss and borderline parody, I can live with a character like SoK.

Haven't read the books myself (They all seem like Sues to me), but in a world of mary sues fighting mary sues, Saint looks like the Sue of Sues.

Got an A on the speech!