- Quote :
- Freezer
Photoshopping snipped.
So I was ill-informed on that score. Point for you.
Not looking to “score points” per se; but I am putting out other points that are a part of the information involved in the case.
- Quote :
- What is it with you and the gold tooth? Does no one except thugs and gang bangers wear gold caps where you come from?
Perhaps I should have mentioned his tattous instead? Far as I know, sweet little Treyvon is 17—what is he doing with tattous if he’s a minor? I’m pretty sure it’s against the law across the board for anyone under the age of eighteen to get inked.
Really, it’s not just the gold teeth (or the tattous, before we ride that tangent), it’s the fact that the news deliberately exploited the tragic angles by presenting the image of an adorable, doe-eyed 13 year old Treyvon beside a seven-year-old photo of a Department of Corrections Orange Jumpsuit.
There are more recent photos of both parties in this case, and these should have been used.
But it wouldn’t have received the media attention it has now, would it? Different ethnicities have been playing tit-for-tat ever since someone gave others the idea that “different skin colour = different
race’; that makes no sense. That’s like saying a tabby is a different race than a calico—yet everyone knows that both calicos and tabbies can be born within the same litter. So can a black and white human child
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and then there''s this for the female side:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] .
They are also perfectly able to reproduce after their kind—disparate races
cannot reproduce after their own kind because the difference in genes creates a sort of glass ceiling. They are too far removed genetically even if they may be from similar family-lines.
Think zorses and zee-donks, ligers and the such; tiger and lion of “pure” breed can hook up and make a cub, but the cubs are most commonly sterile...genetic disparity keeps these two genetically different breeds from producing viable offspring.
If blacks and whites are different “races”. There would be greater likelihood that offspring resulting from the coupling of a black and a white would produce reproductively stunted progeny.
We all know this is not the case, as there are many other-ethnic couples who are blessed with successive generations after their own kind. Personally, l’m more than just “offhandedly” familiar...my family tree bears many exotic fruits...and I’m always hoping for some new sprigs.
- Quote :
- The fact that he's following someone, on foot, to the point where he's out of breath tends to shoot holes in any sort of self-defense claim.
And, once again: GUN.
He was following from a safe distance—he lost sight of the kid, did indeed break off pursuit and returned to his vehicle. During the actual foot-pursuit, Zimmerman was only armed with his cellular phone; his weapon was holstered.
- Quote :
- When you're chasing someone with said gun, someone you suspect as having done something? Yeah, it does.
There is a massive difference between simply having a gun on your person, and brandishing that gun. So no, it does not; the gun came into play when the scuffle happened, even the news is no longer denying that Zimmerman (who landed no punches on Martin, also evidenced by the M.E.) was injured in some kind of interaction.
In the CCW training (and everything I’ve read thus far within that context) letting your weapon be displayed (it’s called “finger printing”) is clearly to be avoided.
- Quote :
- And that's not a red flag?
Not really...the guy was unemployed, and he was giving his time on a volunteer basis to his community. There are block watch organizations (particularly in Home Owners’ Associations, they have committees and arbiters and all that, and I think I heard mention that it is an H.O.A. community) in neighbourhoods all across the United States and Canada.
On my own street, we watch out for each other—and we’re all able to respond to whatever threat by necessary means. Oh, and we’re all living harmoniously, rather than whoopin’ it up and having shoot-fests.
Most of us are pretty good shots with bow and arrows, too...
...ask any boy that’s dated my Daughter.
- Quote :
- Someone whom he had no proof didn't belong there, other than his own suspicions.
Some strange presence in his neighbourhood, when there has been a notable increase in the number of break-ins and other criminal happenings, as mentioned in the news from “both” sides.
Zimmerman had no way of knowing if this person had a relative in the community. No more than Treyvon knew the man who was following him was the block watch Captain—self-appointed or not.
With regard to that whole “self-appointed” issue, you act like it’s a bad thing that someone would take it upon themselves to watch out for his community, when the simple fact of the matter is statistically supported that communities that employ some kind of block-watch system are actually
safer.
Honestly, I don’t give an ingot about the colour of either party...but I’d welcome a Treyvon or a Zimmerman in my community if he was more inclined to block-watch.
- Quote :
- Which makes him a dealer, rather than just a kid who smokes, right?
1.) I never said he was a
dealer, the baggie was a convenient little detail that the media left out.
2.) Smoking weed is illegal in the United States, and Treyvon isn’t just breaking the law, he is doing so while being a minor. If he got caught outside of school, it would have been annotated on his juvenile record, not just handled the way the school handled it.
3.) It also points out, like the gold teeth and tattous, that he wasn’t some sweet little kid who got riddled with bullets by an evil (white!)Hispanic [which by the way, is a completely contrived term, made up special for this case! How many other Hispanics are specified this way?].
- Quote :
- (Every law I know of - and every cop I know, says "No and you're an idiot for even thinking of doing it.)
Well, we are in agreement that it’s foolish to “chase” after someone who isn’t lurking about on your own property, and Zimmerman should have stayed in his car—which, again, I will point out that the 911 Operator’s advice was taken once Treyvon slipped away.
Now, if someone was on my property, I’d be watching them closely, birdshot chambered...you bet. The law is on my side here, and in this case, whether or not we like it, Zimmerman has the laws to his favour. For now, until something actually implicates Zimmerman, he’s a free man.
The police, I am certain, know where he is; the NBPP needs to butt out, as does the rest of the idiots whom deem this a “racial” issue.
- Quote :
- And AGAIN, we only have Zimmerman's word that he did so. You need proof for such an affirmative defense and there is NONE.
Well, under the auspices of the Law, a man is innocent until he is proven guilty by a jury of his peers.
- Quote :
- I've called you none of those things.
I don’t recall specifying that
you had called me these things; my comment began with “Between you and others, I’m getting all the soundbytes” followed by another, separate complete sentence.
Suffice it to say, I was literally set upon by many here and I wasn’t uncivil from the start, I merely had a different opinion that wasn’t towing all the “Think Progress” and “Huffington Post”-esque talking points—and that has earned me nicknames like “jackass”, “maggot”, “racist”, and so on. But it’s fine, calling names straight off simply indicates more spleen than meat.
Mainly because I pointed out that the concept of “hate/thought crime” is weighted, and that it’s unfair to use skewed data to form an opinion. Sure, it was a bad call all around—both parties acted foolishly, it was entirely preventable (is something filtering this out, or are folks just not seeing this?), and yeah, I pray for peace and real resolution for the Martin Family as well as that of the Zimmermans.
Oh—and most folks who get a CCW (which, I believe Zimmerman had, once again) they are stiffly encouraged to get insurance that will respond in the event that the Permit Carrier may have to actually use the weapon he or she carries. It’s just good sense.
We get Auto insurance because we know that being on the road puts us at risk, and because we know we aren’t perfect—I had drivers’ insurance when I got my permit. Not because I was required to have it by law (you know, the
minimum); I’ve got protection for uninsured motorists, and my insurance will cover the medical bills of the ‘other guy’ if I’m at fault. I’m not required to have all these bells and whistles, but I do because I know I’m not perfect.
- Quote :
- I have called you someone mindlessly parroting the right wing party line
And that’s fair, after all, I’ve said no less myself. But I’m not just “mindlessly parroting”, I’m actually reading
both sides.
My conclusion is that it isn’t racially motivated, it was entirely avoidable, horribly unfortunate, and that the news has skewed the facts severely in order to benefit from this. They shouldn’t be doing this (owing respect and fairness to
both families), and Zimmerman should be allowed a fair trial.
The O.J. Simpson trials have taught the world one very lucid lesson: the instant crime becomes an issue about race, it only takes a riot to get the “people” what they want.
Even after all this, Treyvon is still dead...and if this doesn’t pan out the way some want it to and Zimmerman is allowed to go free, his life is ruined. If he’s arrested and convicted, he’ll be a dead man even if he’s in solitary. They
can get to you if they want to, just like if someone has it in their mind to break in and invade your home, they will do so and there’s little one can do.
Besides be prepared. Knowing folks are watching, and that they might be armed is an
excellent deterrent.
- Quote :
- (because if you're against Zimmerman, you're against the Second Amendment, amirite?).
I never said this, specifically. However, anyone knows that the Second Amendment has been a major tripping point against those who want to enforce gun control laws. Why are those on the left (and it
is primarily a leftist “thing”) so concerned about gun control? It’s not to prevent things like this from happening, because statistical data supports that gun-violence is more often than not perpetrated not by people enforcing their right to own a means of defense, but by illegal arms and illegal activity that requires armed backup.
Because the easiest people to
control are those who are unarmed and unable to affect recourse.
The “war on drugs” hasn’t stopped drugs from being a problem any more than Prohibition had proven effective. I can’t carry a knife longer than the breadth of my palm, closed...does that stop the average person from being able to go get
swords or Bowie-type knives from flea markets?
Hell, I can go to Wal*Mart and buy a twelve inch Bowie or a Remigton, Buck, or other brand name knife that’s illegal in length. I can get all sorts of fun things like this in the mail. I can simply take a Chef’s knife from a kitchen drawer. Any person can do this, and not have a background check. Same thing for bows, crossbows, and other projectile based means by which one can take the life of another.
But the only issue here seems to be
guns.
Yet, interestingly, the EPA (yes, the Environmental Protection Agency), for some wild and crazy reason, isn’t loading up on hugs and sticky notes to apply its intent, it’s arming up with the ebil
guns. I wonder why an organization like the EPA—those sweet and loveable folks who won’t let us drill for oil on the continent that has more crude than any other on the planet, because, you know, some poor rats and some poor weeds need to be
protected—would need those awful, nasty things?
Why is the Department of Education’s OIG in Philadelphia and Washington buying shotguns...to replace the old models it originally had? Wait...why does any department connected with the
DoE need freaking guns?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Why is there a required need for Concealed Carry for some positions within the DoE administration?
So the Second Amendment is only okay for those in Government positions, not the rest of the Serfdom?
Because as I have said before
citizens have guns,
subjects do not. This is a Republic, not a Democracy, I’m not a “subject”.
- Quote :
- Even noting the parts where I was in error and you were right, nothing makes me think otherwise.
Well, thanks—and you’re a first—but everyone’s up in arms over the notion (you included, as you have called me no less) that I’m a bigot. Honestly, there’s just as much crime out there where black, white, and Hispanic—or any other ethnicity—“gets away with it”. I have repeatedly stated that this crime is not somehow
more tragic because a
black kid got killed by a “
white Hispanic” (seriously, WTH? I’ve
never heard that specific terminology used to describe another!). It is tragic, purely, plainly, and simply because one
person has killed another, be it with a gun, a knife, a rock, or...a coffee can full of pennies.
- Quote :
- Does smoking weed automatically make you a hardened gangsta?
Again, I have never implied this. My reference to this points out that Treyvon was misrepresented; he is no angel, he shouldn’t be depicted as some sweet little darling who was gunned down by a frothing maniac. C’mon now, my position hasn’t changed here and it ain’t likely to, no matter how the same question is reformatted and sent back at me.
Yet no one has problems with Zimmerman being portrayed as a criminal thug (
mugshot next to middle school photo) from a seven year old picture (when there are—like Treyvon—plenty of more recent, more
accurate photos.
- Quote :
- Tends to be what happens when you shoot someone in an incident you provoked.
So...if Treyvon actually confronted Zimmerman, and Zimmerman is found innocent, we can agree that both were within their right to defend them selves.
Once again, Mr. Zimmerman will have to live with the decision he made that night for the rest of his life whether or not he goes to prison. If he is found innocent, he’ll never be able to go about a normal life...and he will be dogged wherever he goes by others who have been fed what the media has given them.
If he goes to prison, he’s pretty much screwed; every day he’ll be worried if it’s his last, how, and by whom...anyone working kitchen detail that knows it’s his food tray could contaminate his food and drink, he could get attacked while bathing, any number of things, any number of ways. Not because he killed someone, but because he killed someone who was 'walking while black'.
- Quote :
- Do I think the media and the blogosphere has gone overboard in deifying Trayvon? Yes. Does this mean the case hasn't been horribly botched on the local level, long before the national media got wind? Hell. No.
We agree here. As to the whole “botch”, the local Police have suggested no less.
Our legal system is far from perfect, but even if they went over the area with a fine-toothed comb, it doesn’t detract from the fact that Zimmerman used a defense that afforded him freedom under the Law. Agree or don’t there is nothing we can do to change that.
- Quote :
- Which is why Zimmerman should be facing Manslaughter charges. He's not facing any charges ATM. Hence this thread.
Then why couldn’t it be so addressed in the title? It says clearly (as per the current winds of the media)
”Boy Killed For Walking While Black” and most here support the thinking that fosters the idea that this was a skin-colour issue. It wasn’t an issue the night Treyvon was killed, it shouldn’t have been made “racial”, and it’s only because the media outlets have presented it as such that it has become a “race issue”.
- Quote :
- The Black Panthers
Who are about as politically relevant to Black America now as the American Patriot movement is to White America.
The NBPP is a
militant black hate group, and every bit as vile as the KKK the Nazi Youth, the SS, and others of their ilk. The difference, you wouldn’t catch George Bush speaking at a Skinhead rally, or a KKK meeting.
Even still, as repulsive as these groups are, and I do disagree with them on both sides, here in America they have a right to their say; however, when they start offering ten grand or a mil for the capture of a man whose only problems are that he looks white and shot a black youth, it becomes an issue of liability. Oh, and the reward is for Zimmerman,
dead or alive...the “Skreep People” need to get a clue, y’cain’t whitewash
that.
Lest we forget,
The Martin Family doesn’t want the NBPP hopping on the wagon for their cause, but the NBPP asserts that it will stay involved without respecting the family’s wishes.This ain’t about the tragic death of a youth, it’s a flashpoint to let the NBPP keep its foot in the door.
Someone needs to slam the damn door.
- Quote :
- Which makes them more relevant than I thought, but on par with the Girl Scouts as far as political clout goes.
“King Samir Shabazz” has appeared on the White House guest books and enjoys the kind of audience with the current sitting President that no ordinary citizen who’s a member to the freaking Rotary Club has access to.
- Quote :
- You're beating the damp spot where the horse used to be.
Even if I don’t agree with you on the issue connected to this, that’s an awesome response...and I do intend to incorporate it in my repertoire. Wonderful stuff. LOL
But more to the point, Obama himself has asked for the American People to “judge me by the people who surround me.”
Okay. Our President has been weighed and found wanting in this regard.
- Quote :
- Every source I can find says the Panthers were roundly criticized for that.
Ooh, they were
criticized! The broke the law and got away with it!
People were denied their rights here—but I keep forgetting about that whole selective vision thing that lets some get a pass while others need to be pilloried—Maher can call Palin a “dumb twat", Colbert can cal Palin a "f*cking retard" but Limbaugh calls a sexually promiscuous college student (who’s much older than she let others believe—and certainly, older than she was portrayed in the media!) a “slut” and all of a sudden, it’s a “women’s rights issue”! I'm offended that anyone with a public audience like these have would resort to calling names like this (it's unprofessional), but these have the same right to their opinion as I do. Yep,
I’m the sexist?
Rush Limbaugh lost sponsors, Don Imus lost his job for saying something that black women say about each other.
Where is Bill Maher? Still nestled sound like a tick burrowed in, and still a fave on the left-of-center and... Meanwhile...crickets keep a-chirpin’ from the feminist camp. (Damn it! I’m
woman hear me roar! Don’t wanna pay for birth control any more...such strong, independent creatures would make a Suffragist retch.)
All of these men could have conducted themselves more wisely.
Point being, the NBPP—whether or not you choose to believe it—is bit more relevant that a bunch of black people running around playing “army”. You fail also to note that even if you don’t find them a threat, the simple fact that they are interfering with the voting process (the right of EVERY legal citizen in this Country) of every person who felt intimidated enough to not vote in their district (the only place they are permitted to vote) as a result of this presence is a direct violation of Law.
Yet Eric Holder lets it slide because he says he won’t prosecute “
his people”.
“Think about that,” Holder said. “When you compare what people endured in the South in the 60s to try to get the right to vote for African Americans, and to compare what people were subjected to there to what happened in Philadelphia–which was inappropriate, certainly that . . . to describe it in those terms I think does a great disservice to people who put their lives on the line, who risked all, for
my people,” said Holder, who is black.
This is Eric Holder’s (The chief law enforcement official in the United States’) “People”:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Nice. Samir Shabazz doesn’t deny that he made it a point to show, and with regard to that very subject, begins by addressing his group of onlookers by stating that “November 4th, 2008...he gets what he wants.” Meaning that “that’s the date” (echoed by someone else in the room) of the big event. “Now what would we look like in front of a polling place with batons? You know we don’t carry batons...
psyche!” As he chuckles knowingly at the crowd.
For the record, Mr. Holder,
We are “your people”. All Americans are your people, equal and to be equally treated under the Law.
- Quote :
- Justice was served, swiftly and decisively, on behalf of Christian and Newsome. If you think not enough was made of the racial angle, that's your problem. You can't decry playing the race card in one instance and whine that no one's playing it in another.
I’m not looking to have the “race card” played in the Christian/Newsome case.
It could do without being played in the court of public opinion in this case as well.
- Quote :
- Apparently, it's a common, and rather stupid, thing.
Amen.
- Quote :
- You say this as if most people - hell, most people on the left (of which I am not, BTW, but thanks for assuming) - are cheering on this stupidity.
Well, assumptions have been volleyed across the board, so I guess that's a bit moot, yeah?
Another thing is, just like some idiots can be incited to violence because of what they see in the news, some people need little prodding to motivate them.
“Boy killed for walking while black”.
- Quote :
- As if these stories aren't popping up right along side efforts from the seedier right to vilify Martin (which, again, wouldn't actually help Zimmerman).
I’m not looking to vilify Martin, but to present him with facts that attest to his character and point out the yellow journalism (the only real colour that actually matters here) that’s doing more harm than good. Since the public isn’t savvy to the information that actually applies to the case, it’s unfair to judge one way or the other to the extremes it has been carried to.
- Quote :
- I think you're wrong on pretty much all the major points, but the fact that you made said points deserves full credit.
Why, that’s mighty
white of you.
You’re welcome to think I’m wrong...that’s your prerogative. Over and above this, though, not one soul here has been able to prove that Zimmerman shot the lad because he was black.
Right now, there are two accounts, Zimmerman’s and that of a witness that seems to be getting railroaded because he actually (and unhappily) corroborates Zimmerman’s account. Other than these things, the public forum has exactly zip to prove either Martin or Zimmerman is a criminal. There's also more data, as your most recent post indicates.
Meanwhile, an awful series of events (that could have been prevented) colluded to take the life of a high school kid.
Crimanitley, was the need for sugar such that he had to go on a jaunt in the dark, rainy evening for “skittles” and tea?
Oye, teenagers. - Quote :
- Now if you could just do something about that "WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE FOLK?!?" tone...
You could simply opt to see it as I have presented it, and emphasized innumerably: crime owes its presence to no one particular colour. If you see me presenting black on white or black on black crime, as being a “bigot”, that’s your choice—I figured presenting an opposing element would be seen as it was intended to be displayed.
Also, "white folk" have just as much right to be protected and prosecuted under the law as blacks do.
After all, look at how this very case is being played; rather than ‘Neighbourhood Watch Captain Shoots Youth in a Scuffle’ with pertinent information (which is more accurate), we’ve got “Boy Killed for Walking While Black”.
And nothing in this case has squat to do with that.
- Quote :
- Freezer
Silly Wulf; you're not White if you're not the right kind of "white!"
What kind of “white” would that be?
As I had said from the start, tragedy visits indiscriminately. Misfortune doesn’t give a damn about status or ethnicity or anything, and criminals are a rainbow of colours.
But, then again, there’s crap like this
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] from my home town.
I guess his Nazi flag collection is in another room.
Shall we all put on fuzzy white beards?...Nah, This one survived the lynching.
This is interesting: “For investigators, it's unclear whether the assault was motivated by an attempt to avenge the Martin youth's death or whether Mr. Watts' "Remember Trayvon" message was misinterpreted as threatening or racist.”
Look at this man’s picture. You gonna tell me
six kids—one of which was Treyvon’s age and, oh yeah—“The 17-year-old also faces a felonious assault charge from an unrelated shooting, Ms. Olender said. The teen allegedly shot Mark Bolling, 24, in the 600 block of Leonard Street in East Toledo on March 18.” Might have felt intimidated and “threatened” buy a man of 78, armed only with a couple bags of pork rinds?
Most of the meat on the guy was in his grocery bags!
More on the matter, from the above link: “When asked about the Trayvon remarks, Mr. Watts said, "All I meant by saying 'remember Trayvon' is to remember what happened to him, don't duplicate it here," suggesting that he was minding his own business as he walked home.
"The only reason I mentioned Trayvon, that was my defense," Mr. Watts said. "Don't pick on me. I am not your enemy."
The assault occurred only a few hours after a peaceful rally, near the Thurgood Marshall Building, 420 E. Manhattan Blvd., to show support for the Martin family.
At his home Monday, Mr. Watts said he has never allowed weapons inside and that when his four children were growing up, they were not allowed to play "cops and robbers, to kill the Indians."
During the Vietnam War, Mr. Watts, who served in the military from 1950 to 1961, refused to let his boys play GI Joes.
There would be no more killing, he said.
But now, Mr. Watts says he plans to buy a gun and obtain a permit to carry it.‘What happened to me … down here on the corner, that changed my perspective on humanity,’ Mr. Watts said.”
Well, that was unexpected.
Finally, I thought it would be helpful to let a brilliant novelist and writer weigh in; Mr. Shelby Steele. His bona fides are relatively easy to find.
In fact Trayvon's sad fate clearly sent a quiver of perverse happiness all across America's civil rights establishment, and throughout the mainstream media as well. His death was vindication of the "poetic truth" that these establishments live by. Poetic truth is like poetic license where one breaks grammatical rules for effect. Better to break the rule than lose the effect. Poetic truth lies just a little; it bends the actual truth in order to highlight what it believes is a larger and more important truth.
The civil rights community and the liberal media live by the poetic truth that America is still a reflexively racist society, and that this remains the great barrier to black equality. But this "truth" has a lot of lie in it. America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation. And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.
If Trayvon Martin was a victim of white racism (hard to conceive since the shooter is apparently Hispanic), his murder would be an anomaly, not a commonplace. It would be a bizarre exception to the way so many young black males are murdered today. If there must be a generalization in all this—a call "to turn the moment into a movement"—it would have to be a movement against blacks who kill other blacks. The absurdity of Messrs. Jackson and Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.
Full article:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]I’m willing to bet Mr. Steele knows a good bit about the issues facing blacks from a very personal perspective. But since he doesn’t agree with the narrative, does that make him a racist, or an Uncle Tom?
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