Apparently, hookers are just as bad as rapists and child molestors...

KelinciHutan wrote:

My only reply to both Bam and Freezer is, this whole thread we've been talking about people accused of a crime, when we haven't been talking about the original post. The video I posted, with which you both attempted to argue without actually watching it, is about people accused of a crime. To take that single topic conversation and then go "BUT THE WITNESSES!!!" is a leap, to say the least.

Well, to be fair, witnesses were specifically all I was asking about. I'm in complete agreement when it comes to people being accused of crimes talking to the police.

Thanos6 wrote:

Quote :

People who testify against the Mafia are usually mobsters themselves. By your logic they should be tossed in jail because they'd refuse to testify on their own involvement in the mob.

Yes, in guarded cells.

What is this I don't even

hey Thanos

in your police state utopia is everyone born smart

and the non smart ones are ground up for food

You know, I've been watching this argument just to see how bad it would get. And as I'm reading the thread, I realize this conversation has happened before; Logic vs. Pigheadedness.

And then I remembered. This is A Note Chaotic all over again with the stupid flat tax and all her other BS. (There was something else she believed that drove me up the wall, but for the life of me, I cannot remember what) It is the exact same refusal to see any other viewpoint but their own.

Thanos, are you ANC?

Thanos6 wrote:

Quote :

People who testify against the Mafia are usually
mobsters themselves. By your logic they should be tossed in jail
because they'd refuse to testify on their own involvement in the mob.

Yes, in guarded cells.

Shhhh... [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanos6 wrote:

And why should this inherently be a right? What makes this something worthy to be enshrined up there with the rights of the First Amendment?

But it SHOULD BE LEGAL is what I'm trying to say.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Zvarri!

We are faced with a man who thinks that Phoenix Wright is an accurate representation of the justice system.

Could be worse, he could think Law & Order is an accurate representation of the justice system.

The actually hilarious part is that 'pleading the fifth is admitting guilt' can actually have some merit... but in Canada.

In here, if you're charged you can 'plead the fifth' (or Exercise your 11c), but if you're not charged you have to testify.

Quote :

11. Any person charged with an offence has the right … c) not to be compelled to be a witness in proceedings against that person in respect of the offence…

BUT it cannot be used against you in a different case, unless you lied.

Quote :

13. A witness who testifies in any proceedings has the right not to have any incriminating evidence so given used to incriminate that witness in any other proceedings, except in a prosecution for perjury or for the giving of contradictory evidence.

Quote :

In effect, a person can be compelled to give involuntary self-incriminating evidence but only where that evidence is to be used against a third party.

No, I'm not ANC. No, my knowledge of the justice system does not come from Phoenix Wright or L&O.

I'm not arguing what IS, I'm arguing what SHOULD BE.

Quote :

Who did what is irrelevant when you get to the
point of how and why it's good to use the 5th amendment (Read:
hollywood may have carried out the blacklistings but the accusations
and trials were done by a government agency) but you keep ignoring all
the good points I and everyone else is making in favor of trying to
look smart by reminding us of trivial and inane bullshit.

I'm still not seeing a connection between taking the Fifth and being blacklisted. Spell it out for me, obviously I'm missing something.

The short version is...

"They asked him if he was a communist and he plead the Fifth. Only guilty people plead the fifth. Therefore he must be a communist. We don't want no dirty commies in our movies, they're bad for business. That SOB will never work in this town again!"

It doesn't matter if he's really a communist or not. He's perceived as one and that's all it takes to ruin a career.

Then he might as well have said, "Yes, I'm a Communist, but that doesn't equal a Soviet or a Soviet sympathizer, you can be a Communist and still be a good person," etc. etc. etc. Stood up for his viewpoint and tried to make the American public realize, hey, maybe being red IS better than being dead.

Yes, because the vast, vast majority of American people even today are totally capable of separating the word "communist" from "Soviet Russia" and realizing that there's more to the concepts in question than simple black and white morality.

The world is not run on Truth like you seem to think it is. The world is run on convenience. When something convenient isn't true, the Truth becomes discarded so it won't get in the way of convenience.

Thanos6 wrote:

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Your idea of what "should be" is blessedly not the way America works. America may be fucked up but at least we don't have an inquisitorial system of law.

...Usually.

Thanos6 wrote:

Then he might as well have said, "Yes, I'm a Communist, but that doesn't equal a Soviet or a Soviet sympathizer, you can be a Communist and still be a good person," etc. etc. etc. Stood up for his viewpoint and tried to make the American public realize, hey, maybe being red IS better than being dead.

How can you possibly be this naive without your head caving in under one atmosphere of pressure?

It worked for Joseph Welch.

THANOS

IF SOMEONE CONFESSES TO A CRIME EITHER VERBALLY OR IN WRITING AND LATER RETRACTS IT WHAT IS YOUR STANCE THEN

WHAT ABOUT REPORTING A CRIME TO THE POLICE BUT THEN WITHDRAWING THE COMPLAINT OR REFUSING TO CO-OPERATE FURTHER, DOES THAT MEAN NO CRIME OCCURRED

Thanos6 wrote:

I'm not arguing what IS, I'm arguing what SHOULD BE.

The ideal and the reality aren't always--or even often--the same thing.

Thanos6 wrote:

It worked for Joseph Welch.

...he politely told McCarthy to STFU&GBTW. His argument resembles nothing like what you posted earlier. In fact, the meat of what he was saying was pretty much exactly why you should have the right not to tell them anything:

"Senator, may we not drop this? We know he belonged to the Lawyers Guild. Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"