Apparently, hookers are just as bad as rapists and child molestors...

Hey, New Orleans... You seem like a pretty cool place. I mean, you gave the world sludge-metal and The Princess and the Frog. But then... then you go and do something like this.

New Orleans is charging prostitutes as sex offenders based on a 19th-century sodomy law that happens to still be on the books.

Bad. BAD N'awleans.

Wow, this will totally be good for society. I challenge you to come up with a better plan for halting prostitution in it's tracks!

Oh, wait, that's right, ruining their lives and any prospect they had of making an honest living won't actually expand their career opportunities.

Quote :

The
law, which dates back to 1805, makes it a crime against nature to
engage in “unnatural copulation”—a term New Orleans cops and the
district attorney’s office have interpreted to mean anal or oral sex.

Shouldn't that law apply to everyone and anyone who has oral sex or anal sex? Stupid unnatural copulation law. This is even more moronic -- and far, far more harmful -- than Alabama's ban on sex toy sales.

This will fail in court for 'selective enforcement'. While you can get away with that sort of thing for misdemeanors like speeding and jaywalking, I sincerely doubt it's going to fly on this one.

(I wonder what the over/under for ACLU involvement is. This looks right up their alley.)

Malganis wrote:

Quote :

The law, which dates back to 1805, makes it a crime against nature to engage in “unnatural copulation”—a term New Orleans cops and the district attorney’s office have interpreted to mean anal or oral sex.

Shouldn't that law apply to everyone and anyone who has oral sex or anal sex? Stupid unnatural copulation law. This is even more moronic -- and far, far more harmful -- than Alabama's ban on sex toy sales.

As someone who lives in Alabama I can say for a fact that that ban harms no one. Least of all the people selling the sex toys. They're just relabeled as "adult novelties" and all come with capitalized warnings like "THIS IS A NOVELTY ITEM ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR ANY SEXUAL PURPOSES." In fact, I believe there's a sex toy shop in Montgomery, our capital.

This is stupid.

Charging prostitutes as sex offenders isn't gonna make their lives any easier.

Quote :

If she needs to evacuate to a shelter during a hurricane, she must evacuate to a special shelter for sex offenders, and this shelter has no separate safe spaces for women.

Well, that's a smart idea. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Gotta love the sex offender laws in this country, where people who pee between cars are just as evil as people who rape and murder children.

On topic: This will not help matters in the slightest. Making it next to impossible for people to earn an honest living is not going to discourage prostitution. And would someone please explain to me how prostitutes are hurting others?

KelinciHutan wrote:

As someone who lives in Alabama I can say for a fact that that ban harms no one. Least of all the people selling the sex toys. They're just relabeled as "adult novelties" and all come with capitalized warnings like "THIS IS A NOVELTY ITEM ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR ANY SEXUAL PURPOSES." In fact, I believe there's a sex toy shop in Montgomery, our capital.

Yeah, as far as I know, that's standard practice with pretty much all sex toys 'cause that's a law on the books in a surprising number of states. I think that's the only reason it hasn't been overturned, actually--since it doesn't actually do anything, it's easier to just let things ride than stir up trouble by flipping a law that could cause controversy among the conservative population.

KelinciHutan wrote:

Malganis wrote:

Quote :

The law, which dates back to 1805, makes it a crime against nature to engage in “unnatural copulation”—a term New Orleans cops and the district attorney’s office have interpreted to mean anal or oral sex.

Shouldn't that law apply to everyone and anyone who has oral sex or anal sex? Stupid unnatural copulation law. This is even more moronic -- and far, far more harmful -- than Alabama's ban on sex toy sales.

As someone who lives in Alabama I can say for a fact that that ban harms no one. Least of all the people selling the sex toys. They're just relabeled as "adult novelties" and all come with capitalized warnings like "THIS IS A NOVELTY ITEM ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE USED FOR ANY SEXUAL PURPOSES." In fact, I believe there's a sex toy shop in Montgomery, our capital.

Hell, Walgreens sells the damn things! ("Personal Massager"... YOU FOOL NO ONE!)

Turning prostitutes into criminals isn't going to help them stop. Obviously New Orleans has forgotten that most prostitutes aren't selling themselves for sex because they enjoy putting a price on their dignity. Most of them do it because they're in situations that make it difficult to earn money any other way.

Oh yeah, and you know their pimps? The guys that take most of their money? Where does this stop THEM? Do you really think that guys who sell women's bodies are gonna stop just because those women risk prison?

NO! They don't give a fucking SHIT about the well-being of their employees!

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Turning prostitutes into criminals isn't going to help them stop.

They are already criminals. However, this brings us back to the tried-and-true method of politicians who want to look like they're Doing Something About this Problem for the Children(tm) : Make something illegal even more illegal. In the end nothing is accomplished, but they score tough guy points with their base.

Yeah, that confused me. It's illiegal to be a prostitute ALREADY. Why make it MORE illiegal? You could be spending that money on teaching kids about the harmfulness of drugs, or STDs.

But that would mean stopping the problem before it BECOMES a problem and that's something Republicans can't be arsed to do.

Democrats love that tactic too. Easy example: 1994 AWB.

Penguin wrote:

Democrats love that tactic too. Easy example: 1994 AWB.

I wouldn't say they "love" the tactic so much as realize a disturbingly high portion of the population in the United States are vindictive, sadistic fuckheads. They have to throw them a bone every once in a while or they'll get run out of office for being "soft on crime". Despite the United States having one of the most flagrantly evil prison systems in the world and a heavily militarized police force, a majority of Americans think we have to be even tougher on crime because, I dunno, I guess they think people do a risk/reward analysis before they bump off a liquor store or something. Meanwhile, hyperincarceration costs taxpayers billions of dollars a year for basically no benefit, yet even hint that maybe we shouldn't give them so much money and you instantly lose the election. Prison rape jokes are surefire laughs, even though the practice has led directly to the increased size and power of gangs (and ruined lives both in and outside of prison). And not only does the man on the street not know that his views are not only self-defeating but morally abhorrent, he doesn't give a shit. After all, no way is he ever going to be falsely convicted of a crime and get sent to jail, jail's only for bad people!

In conclusion, DTA.

Lady Anne wrote:

Gotta love the sex offender laws in this country, where people who pee between cars are just as evil as people who rape and murder children.

On topic: This will not help matters in the slightest. Making it next to impossible for people to earn an honest living is not going to discourage prostitution. And would someone please explain to me how prostitutes are hurting others?

Well there's always the potential for spread of venereal disease. But yeah, this law is damn stupid. As far as I know, most hookers would prefer not to be in that situation.

Nature of the beast, I'm afraid. In the classes I took on the topic, one of the leading theories about the connection between crime and punishment is that, to be an effective deterrent, punishment needs three things: it needs to be swift, certain, and proportional to the crime. However, because of the nature of the legal system, you can't make it swift- as evidenced by the endless celebrity trials like the O.J. Simpson case. They also can't make it certain because of, well, things like the O.J. Simpson case. So all politicians can do to appear to be "fighting crime" is keep ramping up the penalties. The alternative is things like urban renewal programs, which are expensive and have no guaranteed payoff at the ballot box.

TheHermit wrote:

AMERIKKKANS R TEH EBULZ [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Someone has crumbs in their neckbeard this morning.

gaijinguy wrote:

Someone has crumbs in their neckbeard this morning.

Appeal to ridicule fallacy. And I wouldn't say MOST Americans are evil; just enough of them to effectively steer the country. The rest are just politically, intellectually, and morally lazy.

Yeah, appealing to a nerd stereotype was really unneccesary. Your words were ridiculous enough on their own merit. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Chaltab wrote:

Your words were ridiculous enough on their own merit.

Oh, what a joy it would be to be a troll! I wouldn't have to back up any of my claims, and could dismiss people's objectively correct opinions with a snide remark! Can you teach me to be willfully ignorant like you?

Consider Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, AZ. Arpaio regularly conducts immigrant sweeps of local neighborhoods. Not "illegal immigrant", just "immigrant". If you're brown, you're arrested. He feeds his prisoners slop and pockets most the food budget, puts them to work on chain gangs, and makes them sleep in a "Tent City" where the blazing Arizona sun can lead to temperatures of over 150 degrees F. He has been the subject of numerous claims of human rights violations, about 2,150 of them by last count. Most end up being dropped, as the Sheriff uses his position to harass and destroy anyone who speaks out against him. In his last campaign, he was re-elected with 55% of the vote. The last attempt to fire him through a special election revealed 65% of the county population holds a positive opinion of Arpaio. For the icing on the cake, research has shown there is no statistically significant difference in recidivism from Arpaio's methods as opposed to more humane treatment. This finding is consistent with numerous other studies that show getting "tough on crime" does not work, but it's extremely popular with the vindictive and the lazy.

By the way, if you don't think American prisons are evil institutions, I got some homework for you.

A lengthy and scathing rundown of human rights violations commited at Virginia's Red Onion state prison
No Escape, an exhaustive study in case histories of prison rape
Confirmed reports of torture and violent beatings in a Lousiana prison
Harris County Jail: making pregnant women stand in shit and blood for days!
"The Program" at Riker's Island, where violent inmates are recruited to brutalize inmates the guards don't like, committed with full knowledge of most senior officials
Just because you're old doesn't mean you won't get murdered by prison guards

These problems are not at all rare. While you're reading that, just a reminder that the average prison sentence served by DNA exonerees is 12 years, totalling 2,856 man years of prison served by innocent people. And probably suffering from the above, as well. Because the idea that only bad people go to prison is a childish belief akin to the Tooth Fairy or Reagan being a good president. In other words, you can do absolutely nothing wrong and still have your life ruined by the unconstitutional conditions in the prison system.

Now watch as the silly trolls attempt to dismiss this with "u mad?" or :words: or something similar, thereby proving I was right by saying most people are either evil or morally lazy.

I'm immorally lazy. tl;dr.

New Orleans has racist and sexist policies. News at 11.

e: Agreeing with everyone saying that this is doing nothing to help these women. The fact that is also apparently very racially motivated irks me; The South needs to get its shit together.

TheHermit wrote:

Consider Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, AZ. Arpaio regularly conducts immigrant sweeps of local neighborhoods. Not "illegal immigrant", just "immigrant". If you're brown, you're arrested. He feeds his prisoners slop and pockets most the food budget, puts them to work on chain gangs, and makes them sleep in a "Tent City" where the blazing Arizona sun can lead to temperatures of over 150 degrees F. He has been the subject of numerous claims of human rights violations, about 2,150 of them by last count. Most end up being dropped, as the Sheriff uses his position to harass and destroy anyone who speaks out against him. In his last campaign, he was re-elected with 55% of the vote. The last attempt to fire him through a special election revealed 65% of the county population holds a positive opinion of Arpaio. For the icing on the cake, research has shown there is no statistically significant difference in recidivism from Arpaio's methods as opposed to more humane treatment. This finding is consistent with numerous other studies that show getting "tough on crime" does not work, but it's extremely popular with the vindictive and the lazy.

For anyone who's curious, the Phoenix New Times has done a long series of investigative articles about our Sheriff Arpayaso. Who, BTW, has openly admitted that if you're not carrying identification ("VHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS?") and "look like you just came from Mexico", that's all the reason his deputies need to arrest you as an illegal immigrant. But they don't profile. Oh, no. Never.

TheHermit wrote:

Oh, what a joy it would be to be a troll! I wouldn't have to back up any of my claims, and could dismiss people's objectively correct opinions with a snide remark! Can you teach me to be willfully ignorant like you?

Appeal to ridicule fallacy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Quote :

Consider Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, AZ. Arpaio regularly conducts immigrant sweeps of local neighborhoods. Not "illegal immigrant", just "immigrant". If you're brown, you're arrested. He feeds his prisoners slop and pockets most the food budget, puts them to work on chain gangs, and makes them sleep in a "Tent City" where the blazing Arizona sun can lead to temperatures of over 150 degrees F. He has been the subject of numerous claims of human rights violations, about 2,150 of them by last count. Most end up being dropped, as the Sheriff uses his position to harass and destroy anyone who speaks out against him. In his last campaign, he was re-elected with 55% of the vote. The last attempt to fire him through a special election revealed 65% of the county population holds a positive opinion of Arpaio. For the icing on the cake, research has shown there is no statistically significant difference in recidivism from Arpaio's methods as opposed to more humane treatment. This finding is consistent with numerous other studies that show getting "tough on crime" does not work, but it's extremely popular with the vindictive and the lazy.

Maybe this is because the typical way we handle things--giving hardened criminals lives of relative comfort on the taxpayer's expense--is equally abhorrent? Good lord, I'm not defending Apario's methods, but when you have prisons where inmates get free cable television people start to look at overkill as a viable alternative. There needs to be a middle ground, absolutely. And yes, we need to eliminate human rights abuses. You know why it's hard to do that? Because they're already against the damn law and they happen anyway. It's matter of corruption, not legislation, and being soft on crime isn't going to change matters.

Quote :

These problems are not at all rare. While you're reading that, just a reminder that the average prison sentence served by DNA exonerees is 12 years, totalling 2,856 man years of prison served by innocent people. And probably suffering from the above, as well. Because the idea that only bad people go to prison is a childish belief akin to the Tooth Fairy

And the left-wing delusion that the vast majority of prisoners are innocent victims of a corrupt judicial system is an equally childish belief.

Quote :

or Reagan being a good president.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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In other words, you can do absolutely nothing wrong and still have your life ruined by the unconstitutional conditions in the prison system.

People who abuse prisoners generally don't give a damn about the constitution. These protections of human rights are already in place and the abuses still happen because of evil people in positions of authority. You've yet to propose any actual way to solve this problem, instead whinging about the laziness and evil of average people who are spending their time going about their daily lives having nothing to do with the problems in question.

Chaltab wrote:

Maybe this is because the typical way we handle things--giving hardened criminals lives of relative comfort on the taxpayer's expense--is equally abhorrent?

Why is it abhorrent? If you don't keep prisoners stimulated, they stimulate themselves with riots, rape, and violence. What else are violent people going to do when you intentionally keep them bored? I'm genuinely curious why you think "free cable" should even be in the same league of injustice as "endemic rape".

Quote :

yes, we need to eliminate human rights abuses. You know why it's hard to do that? Because they're already against the damn law and they happen anyway. It's matter of corruption, not legislation, and being soft on crime isn't going to change matters.

So you're saying that massive indifference by the public has absolutely no effect on whether these things happen or not? I'm trying to understand your argument here.

Quote :

And the left-wing delusion that the vast majority of prisoners are innocent victims of a corrupt judicial system is an equally childish belief.

Nice strawman. I didn't say the "vast majority" of prisoners are innocent, I said that people who are not guilty sometimes end up in prison and suffer as a result of these abuses. Oh, and usually they don't even receive an apology in reparations. Now, I understand this is a major hurdle that prevents most people from even talking about this: the people I'm defending are not nice people. I'm talking about guys who've beaten their wives, who do hard drugs, loot, vandalize, steal, even murder. An overwhelming number of them deserve to be in prison. However, even a criminal deserves some basic fucking human dignity and respect.

Quote :

Quote :

or Reagan being a good president.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Not the time for this argument, but I can assume from the eyeroll that tripling the national debt, directly causing the crash of the late eighties (and indirectly causing the Bush recession), and knowingly selling weapons to terrorist groups and using the money to fund death squads are all awesome things to do as president? I don't know how much he had to do with the Soviet Union's collapse (a thorny issue laden with "what-ifs"), but even viewing that in the most positive light possible he's only average at best. He certainly isn't worthy of the Kim Il-sung treatment given to him by the Republican party.

Quote :

People who abuse prisoners generally don't give a damn about the constitution. These protections of human rights are already in place and the abuses still happen because of evil people in positions of authority. You've yet to propose any actual way to solve this problem, instead whinging about the laziness and evil of average people who are spending their time going about their daily lives having nothing to do with the problems in question.

Any solution that requires reform this broad is going to start with massive public outrage. Only when people see there is a problem is it ever going to get fixed. This is because the forces keeping the current system in place are so heavily ingrained and wield so much political power that it is basically impossible to fix the system from within. Legalize marijuana or other drugs, to get people in on minor drug offenses out? Police unions aren't going to like that; look at how much control they have over people due to the Drug War. Rotate out guards to prevent burnout and abuses? Take a look at Califas and tell me the prison guard unions are ever gonna let that shit fly. Plus, if you start letting convicts out you might have to shut down prisons. A prison could create anywhere from one-two thousand jobs in the community; no politician is going to take the hit for ending those jobs. On the other hand, building prisons allow them to tap into tax revenue and create jobs. No politician can resist.

Unfortunately, people intentionally put on blinders about these abuses because either A) they don't want to think about it, or B) they figure "criminals get what they deserve". The one-two punch of ignorance and indifference leads directly to a lack of action on the part of the public, and unless that changes you're basically never going to fix the problem.

TheHermit wrote:

Chaltab wrote:

Maybe this is because the typical way we handle things--giving hardened criminals lives of relative comfort on the taxpayer's expense--is equally abhorrent?

Why is it abhorrent? If you don't keep prisoners stimulated, they stimulate themselves with riots, rape, and violence. What else are violent people going to do when you intentionally keep them bored?

Well, one thing they do, and this is particularly dangerous when it comes to sex offenders who are going to get out sooner rather than later because nobody actually gives a shit about women or children, is fantasize a lot. Specifically about further crimes, about why they got caught last time, and ways they can make sure it doesn't happen again.

Cyberwulf wrote:

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So, exactly how many times, and with how much violence were you raped?