Investment Banker Sends Embarrassing E-Mail

So some investment banker from New York (apparently rather well-to-do) sent a rather disturbing e-mail to a woman who he went on a date with. The woman being, and I quote, horrified, posted the message to Redditt.

Redditt post here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Slight Huffington Post mock-up of the story here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

LET'S TALK ABOUT NICE GUYS

You know the kind. Can't shut up about what sweethearts they are and don't give the women the credit to see that the bit of meat on a motorcycle they've chosen to sling themselves to this week might not be such a bad guy. Possibly, they might just not like you because you act like their girlfriend owes you something. This man did not get the message.

Quote :

Hi Lauren,

I'm disappointed in you. I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten a response to my voicemail and text messages.

Yes, folks, that is his opening line. And I know there's nothing I love more after a bad first date than to be talked down to.

Quote :

FYI, I suggest that you keep in mind that emails sound more impersonal, harsher, and are easier to misinterpret than in-person or phone communication. After all, people can't see someone's body language or tone of voice in an email. I'm not trying to be harsh, patronizing, or insulting in this email. I'm honest and direct by nature, and I'm going to be that way in this email. By the way, I did a google search, so that's how I came across your email.

'Buckle up, bitch, it's gonna be a bumpy ride and I don't want you to expect me to treat you with respect.' That being said, he googled her fucking e-mail to send her this shit. Here's what I've gotten out of this so far: she didn't want a second date and refused to answer him on any mode of contact she had previously given him, and so he found another one that she did not give him or authorize him to use.

Quote :

I assume that you no longer want to go out with me.

This is a safe assumption. Correct, even.

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(If you do want to go out with me, then you should let me know.)

I don't even know this guy but somehow I'm disappointed in him. Maybe I should google his e-mail address and let him know.

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I suggest that you make a sincere apology to me for giving me mixed signals. I feel led on by you.

We know he's wrong, folks, in no matter what comes next. There is no saving this e-mail after this point.

Quote :

Things that happened during our date include, but are not limited to, the following:

This is followed by an actual bulleted list that I will not post here for tl;dr reasons. The good parts version is: she twirled her hair made eye contact, said it was nice to meet him, and they had a nice conversation over dinner. And he 'doesn't think [he's] being delusional in saying this statement.'

Disregarding the grammatical iffyness of that last sentence, the point is, she made the evening pleasant because she, unlike our nameless Fabio here, has a basic grasp of social mores and decided to keep the evening pleasant on her end, even if she couldn't force him to do so on his. And this means she was totally into him and wanted his dick. Because this is how healthy male-female social interaction works.

Quote :

I think we should go out on a second date. In my opinion, our first date was good enough to lead to a second date.
Why am I writing you? Well, hopefully, we will go out again

Notice his language. I think we should go on a second date. In my opinion. If he mentions her it's all about something she does wrong. And then he asks the million dollar question (that surely has been asked and answered in everyone's mind long before now) and the response almost reads like a punchline. Good thing he asked why he was writing. She sure wasn't going to.

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Even if we don't, I gain utility from expressing my thoughts to you.

What does that even mean?

Skipping around here for a bit (this e-mail is 1600 words, and I'm not going to hold your hand ALL the way through it)...

Quote :

We have a number of things in common. I'll name a few things: First, we’ve both very intelligent. Second, we both like classical music so much that we go to classical music performances by ourselves. In fact, the number one interest that I would want to have in common with a woman with whom I'm in a relationship is a liking of classical music. I wouldn't be seriously involved with a woman if she didn't like classical music.

Quote :

It would be very convenient for you to date me because we have the same interests.

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According to the internet, you're 33 or 32, so, at least from my point of view, we're a good match in terms of age. I could name more things that we have in common, but I'll stop here.

So, when he starts naming things they have in common he gets to two and then stops, and basically says that that is the entire reason we're going out. But wait, but wait, not only is he such a catch and so is she, them dating would be convenient. Because we all know what a great idea it is to base a relationship on convenience.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
'Do you like Tex-Mex?'
'No, not really.'

Quote :

I suggest that we continue to go out and see what happens. Needless to say, I find you less appealing now (given that you haven't returned my messages) than I did at our first date. However, I would be willing to go out with you again. I'm open minded and flexible and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish you would give me the benefit of the doubt too. If you don't want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life.

I don't...I don't even have anything to say here that isn't self-evident. I'm writing this from a computer lab and I've got places to be. But I'll leave you with this little gem:

Quote :

In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly.

Bet you got the hint, though.

This reads like Asperger's so hard. Halfway through I couldn't stop reading it in Sheldon Cooper's voice.

- Girl goes on date with guy with undiagnosed adult aspergers
- Realises guy is cold and wierd and misinterprets social cues
- Probably said "Yeah, I'll call you"
- Didn't

If the LoveShy men could get first dates, I get the feeling this is what would be going through their head if they never got a second date.

Fucking hell. I bet if she'd told him straight up to fuck off, she didn't want to go out with him again, he'd have written her an email all about what a snooty uptight cunt she is.

EDIT: Reading the rest of the email. Christ, he all but says "I AM RICH AND BEAUTIFUL".

EDIT 2:

Mr. Nice Guy wrote:

I spent time, effort, and money meeting you for dinner.

YOU OWE ME, BITCH.

Sakurelf wrote:

This reads like Asperger's so hard. Halfway through I couldn't stop reading it in Sheldon Cooper's voice.

- Girl goes on date with guy with undiagnosed adult aspergers
- Realises guy is cold and wierd and misinterprets social cues
- Probably said "Yeah, I'll call you"
- Didn't

My thoughts exactly, although I wish I had heard the entire e-mail in Sheldon's voice (I did, however, read a couple sentences that way- especially the ones where he treats subjectivity like a math equation).

I had an ex that would do this sort of thing, too.

I just wanted you to know that I'm VERY disappointed in your actions in a totally non-condescending way even though you were incredibly rude after I went to all the trouble of having dinner with you, but I'd still love to go out with you again even though I must passive-aggressively inform you that you are now less attractive to me but again, I'd still want a second date if you're up for it oh god I'm so alone somebody please just hold me

P.S. Call me!

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In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer.

Given the brilliant reasoning and breathtaking narrative abilities demonstrated here, it's a wonder no eligible woman has snatched you up yet

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In my opinion, not responding to my messages is impolite, immature, passive aggressive, and cowardly.

Yeah, who the hell doesn't reply to a text message? THE POLITE THING TO DO IS GOOGLE-STALK THE BITCH AND SEND A CREEPY RANT EMAIL

Quote :

I assume that you find me physically attractive. If you didn't find me physically attractive, then it would have been irrational for you to go out with me in the first place.

Because women never ever date men that they don't find physically attractive. Everyone knows women only date hot guys!!1

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I've made my parents several millions of dollars. That's real money. That's not monopoly money.

Well that's a relief, for a minute there I thought I was dealing with a crazy person--

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People don’t grow on trees.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yeah, it's not like we have reproductive systems capable of producing an endless supply of human beings or something, that's not how nature--OH WAIT


Jesus fucking Christ this guy is a piece of work. Apparently ignoring phone calls just doesn't pack enough of a punch these days. What "Lauren" should have done, and what I recommend every single woman do when confronted with such clueless jerkwads:

Go on one or two more dates, as excruciating as they may be. Twirl hair as much as possible, to let him know you're really really interested and show him how committed you are to this relationship.

After the third date, storm into his place of work and throw an epic shit-fit.

YOU BASTARD! NO RING?!?! I THOUGHT THIS RELATIONSHIP WAS GOING SOMEWHERE BUT I WAS WRONG THE PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA CLEARLY MEANS NOTHING TO YOU. YOU'VE LED ME ON LONG ENOUGH.

If he looks confused and/or terrified, good. Keep going. If he tries to talk you down, scream louder and tear at your clothes. Rip a handful of tissues from your purse and cry and blow your nose as loudly as possible.

THATS IT. YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT COMMITTED TO THIS RELATIONSHIP. WE ARE THROUGH AND I NEVER WANT TO SEE YOU AGAIN IM GOING TO FIND SOMEONE WHO REALLY APPRECIATES ME.

Smash your cell phone on his desk for good measure and stalk out. Problem solved.

Do... Do men realise women twirl their hair for a variety of reasons?

I do it when I'm tired or bored, which might just have been what Lauren was doing it for too. I bet this guy talked about himself the entire way through the date, probably even dropping hints about what kind of fabulous future he has planned out and how many kids he'd like.

I have Aspergers myself and I read this guy as really talking down to her. I don't think I'd want to go out with him after he tells me a bunch of reasons as to why he's too good for me but he's going out with me anyway because he's so great.

So she didn't call you even though you want a second date. You didn't have to send her a goddamn ESSAY about it.

I was going to post something like "OH IT WASN'T THAT BAD" thinking, well, it couldn't be that bad. But DAMN: it was worse than what's portrayed here. God damn.

Some quotes that made me giggle with the stupid:

Quote :

In addition, I’m both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I’m both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That’s a unique characteristic; most people aren’t like that.

I work in construction and I read! Most people don't do that! I work with numbers and I write poetry! Most people don't do that! Most people can't use one side of their brains and I can!

...really? REALLY?

Quote :

Am I sensitive person? Sure, I am. I think it's better to be sensitive than to be insensitive. There are too many impolite, insensitive people in the world.

Which means here, "insensitive people like you".

Quote :

If you don't want to go out again, in my opinion, you would be making a big mistake, perhaps one of the biggest mistakes in your life.

I... really hope he means this in the sense of 'because you'll be missing out on me and I'm awesome' instead of 'I've already Google stalked you, and if you say no, I'm going to really stalk you' or '...one of the biggest mistakes of your life because your life will end if you reject me'. Possibly the creepiest line in the email, IMO.

I don't think I've got anything to add in terms of commenting on the letter, I think you guys have pointed out everything I was gonna say...

So Instead, I want to focus on this:

TheHedonist wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Is that guy dribbling mucus? Or am I the only one seeing that?

Yes I know it's the brickwork but, seriously, he looks like he's dribbling mucus!

It was the only screenshot I could find of Liz and Wesley from 30 Rock sitting together and they illustrated my point perfectly.

But yeah that's some weird brickwork.

TheHedonist wrote:

So some investment banker from New York (apparently rather well-to-do) sent a rather disturbing e-mail to a woman who he went on a date with. The woman being, and I quote, horrified, posted the message to Redditt.

Redditt post here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Slight Huffington Post mock-up of the story here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

LET'S TALK ABOUT NICE GUYS

You know the kind. Can't shut up about what sweethearts they are and don't give the women the credit to see that the bit of meat on a motorcycle they've chosen to sling themselves to this week might not be such a bad guy. Possibly, they might just not like you because you act like their girlfriend owes you something. This man did not get the message.

OK, Hedonist, your post inspires three thoughts: first, that a truly nice guy wouldn't pull this kind of condescending juvenile garbage; second, that his date should take out a restraining order on him as fast as her feet can get her to the courthouse; and third, that Mr. I'm-The-Greatest Thing-Since-Sliced Bread Banker has just set a new standard of relationship fail. Compared to him, the Love-Shy crew are veritable Casanovas. To paraphrase a line from the Project AFTER forum's review of "Chocobo Nights", I'm face-palming so hard the people in the next town can feel the shock wave.

I think the technical term is "Asswipe".

Quote :

This reads like Asperger's so hard.

... so why is it ok and funny to use aspergers as an insult now?

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Quote :

This reads like Asperger's so hard.

... so why is it ok and funny to use aspergers as an insult now?

Actually I believe Sakurelf is autistic in some degree (sorry, I'm not sure what it is) and s/he was just stating facts i.e. this actually reads like something someone with Asperger's might write.

Hey I totally have this gay friend so it's totally cool if I say "that's so gay".

Right?

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Quote :

This reads like Asperger's so hard.

... so why is it ok and funny to use aspergers as an insult now?

It's possible that she (?I think sakuraelf is a she but feel free to correct me) meant it more seriously than as an insult.

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Quote :

This reads like Asperger's so hard.

... so why is it ok and funny to use aspergers as an insult now?

Doobs. I legitimately think this guy has asperger's. In all seriousness. In fact, if he did, I would probably feel bad for him, not just because he obviously feels very afronted by a girl who gave him confusing social cues, but now he's going to be a laughing stock because he wrote an email trying to express his feelings and it came out making him look like a complete asswipe.

I agree, the things said in the letter are completely selfish and asswipery. There are two ways for that to come about: 1) the dude is a regular, selfish, entitled manchild. 2) This dude has a crippling social disability, has been undiagnosed, and has been blundering blindly through relationships wondering why the hell is everyone else in the entire world so fucking weird? People with asperger's often don't know that what they are saying / doing is very insulting or creepy or what have you. Rarely do they intend it that way, but it does come off a lot.

Now, I've even been in a situation somewhat similar to this.

Spoiler:

Moral of the story: people with asperger's suck at relationships. We don't try or want to suck, but we do.

2nd moral: When you tell someone with asperger's something like, "Yeah, I'll call you" THEY THINK YOU WILL ACTUALLY CALL. If you don't call, you must have died in a horrible accident, because you said you'd call! I must make all effort to contact you and make sure this vital message of yours gets through! What? You were telling a white lie? Why the fuck would you say that? Why not just say, "I don't want to see you again." Or even, "I'm not going to call you." Jesus fucking christ, I spent two hours looking for your email address on google because you said you would call and I thought maybe you'd just lost my number or forgot. What a selfish move.

Same with "I had a good time, too!" or "Yeah, we should see each other again some time!" In no way does it enter their brain that this secretly means, "fuck off, this was the worst date ever." White lies and politeness do not work properly. "Hints" don't work properly. Words and actions that don't match up don't send a signal, they send, "this person is an indecisive, selfish liar."

Yeah Doob, I have to say I read Sakurelf's comment as "From the content of this letter, I think the guy may have Asperger's, and here's why" rather than "lolololol ASSPIE".

Sakurelf wrote:

Sakurelfs explanation post

Fair enough. I still think it's a tad optimistic to assume the guy has a mental disorder to explain this all away. But then, maybe I'm just being pessimistic assuming he's just a misogynistic, arrogant jerk.

I dunno, I have two friends with aspergers, and I've never seen them act or talk anything like this guy or any of the other Sheldon Cooper types in the world. I'm also getting pretty sick of all the "hurrduurrrrr aspie" shit.

Mr.Doobie wrote:

I'm also getting pretty sick of all the "hurrduurrrrr aspie" shit.

What "hurrdurr aspie shit" if I may ask?

I've seen quite a few people doing the "hurrdurr aspie shit" on other forums; it's not unreasonable to assume that Mr. Doobie has seen it elsewhere as well (and on a much larger frequency than it happens here).

Mr.Doobie wrote:

I dunno, I have two friends with aspergers, and I've never seen them act or talk anything like this guy or any of the other Sheldon Cooper types in the world.

IDK, I'm pretty sure even if this guy has aspergers he's still a pretty huge asshole.

TheHedonist wrote:

Mr.Doobie wrote:

I dunno, I have two friends with aspergers, and I've never seen them act or talk anything like this guy or any of the other Sheldon Cooper types in the world.

IDK, I'm pretty sure even if this guy has aspergers he's still a pretty huge asshole.

This. They are not mutually exclusive terms.

Sakurelf, have you read the entirety of the letter, and not just the clips on here? Because there were a number of things he said that I took to mean that he knew exactly what was going on and then decided that he could shame and gaslight her into going out with him again.