Texas: "Want an abortion? Take a 24 hour guilt trip first!"

This has passed and Rick Perry has signed it into law.
I am Pro-Life but this disturbs me. Who is paying for this? We are in a deep budget crisis here. Education is in the gutter. And Rick Perry is concerned about saving lives of the unborn. How about spending that energy on education? Educating people about proper birth control. Preventing unwanted pregnancy. What about that, Rick Perry?

karmyn31 wrote:

This has passed and Rick Perry has signed it into law.
I am Pro-Life but this disturbs me. Who is paying for this? We are in a deep budget crisis here. Education is in the gutter. And Rick Perry is concerned about saving lives of the unborn. How about spending that energy on education? Educating people about proper birth control. Preventing unwanted pregnancy. What about that, Rick Perry?

Meh, that would actually solve the problem. Than what hot issue will he use to gather votes?

If these people are so pro-life, how come America still has the Death Penalty?

If they're so pro-life, how come America doesn't have some kind of NHS?

If they're so pro-life, how come America's education budget sucks and they have lousy sex-ed?

Next up - closing that window of abortion by another few weeks so that by the time a woman realises she's pregnant it's too late for a legal abortion.

They act like the world is actually running short on humans when in fact we're overpopulated.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

If these people are so pro-life, how come America still has the Death Penalty?

If they're so pro-life, how come America doesn't have some kind of NHS?

If they're so pro-life, how come America's education budget sucks and they have lousy sex-ed?

Next up - closing that window of abortion by another few weeks so that by the time a woman realises she's pregnant it's too late for a legal abortion.

They act like the world is actually running short on humans when in fact we're overpopulated.

For once, you make sense.

I'll tell you why he isn't concerned with things that affect born children, karmyn - because none of these anti abortion measures are about saving precious little babies. They're about controlling women's sexual behaviour and punishing them for 'acting like sluts'. And the sooner you and every other pro-lifer wises up to that, the better.

karmyn31 wrote:

This has passed and Rick Perry has signed it into law.
I am Pro-Life but this disturbs me. Who is paying for this? We are in a deep budget crisis here. Education is in the gutter. And Rick Perry is concerned about saving lives of the unborn. How about spending that energy on education? Educating people about proper birth control. Preventing unwanted pregnancy. What about that, Rick Perry?

I saw an excellant cartoon once where a pregnant girl is being yelled at by various conservatives that she would be a murderer if she got an abortion. The next panel has the baby thanking them for saving her life, and asking if now they'll help her get fed. The conservatives say nothing and look away. Next panel the baby is a girl, a skinny, exhausted-looking one. She says she's kind of sickly, would they help her get healthcare? The response is much nervous whistling and shuffling of feet. Next panel she's a young woman, still looking tired and malnourished. She asks if they'll help her get an education. The response is something like, 'Uh....um...not really my department...' Next panel she tells them she's undereducated, underemployed and in poor health. Would they help her find low-cost housing? The conservatives study their nails and say nothing. In the last panel she too is pregnant, wailing that she can't possibly take care of a baby, and once again the conservatives call her a murderer.

CW is right. This is the same mindset that allows them to simultaneously ban abortion and sexual education/Planned Parenthood. "Good girls don't do that". "Good girls wait until they're married, and even then, they always want the babies that their husband has given them."

There is no middle ground for these people. They think sex is something unclean, and that women who dare to not give a damn what they think deserve to be punished. It's not even about Christianity in the end, despite what many pro-choice people think. It's all about control. They cannot stand the idea that someone can do something they think is "wrong", and not pay any consequences. Because an infant is a consequence. They're not even thinking of that potential baby most of the time, because if they were, they would remember that our foster care system is overtaxed (Oh, wait, who cut the funding for that again?), only certain kinds of babies are wanted (White, male, healthy), children are often never adopted, the laws regarding adoption in this country are so idiotic that most Americans won't bother and will instead adopt from foreign countries. They also fail to factor in that if a parent never wanted a baby, that child might not have the happiest life. Children know when they're not loved.

Some pro-lifers really do believe what they're saying; that abortion is murder and all life is precious. And they really do care what happens to a baby after it is born. Good for them; life is precious. But so is freedom.

The politicians who use 'I'm pro-life' as a platform to get votes from the other pro-lifers who care, then fulfil that promise by savagely stamping on a woman's right to have control over her own body, make me want to be sick.

"DIE CIVIL RIGHTS!!! DIE!!!! And while we're at it, let's take away the vote from women as well."

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only certain kinds of babies are wanted (White, male, healthy),

I have seen this said so many times, and every time I do I counter it. My mother ran an adoption agency for many years, just herself and one other case worker. The agency only worked with placing children with special needs, and she was never short on business. I went with her occasionally when her business took her to the farther ends of the state, and I saw these people who had so much love in their hearts as the took in these children with special needs.

Some of them already had children, some of them already had special needs children, but they still cared enough to take in more and treat them well. So just keep in mind when you take your cynical ideas of adoption, that these people are adopting because they have love to give to a child.

When a baby is described as a consequence of bad behavior (i.e., a punishment), what kind of life can they be expected to have? Oh, you're Mommy's little punishment. How many people take good care of something they regard as a punishment? Children should be loved and wanted.

Knight wrote:

Quote :

only certain kinds of babies are wanted (White, male, healthy),

I have seen this said so many times, and every time I do I counter it. My mother ran an adoption agency for many years, just herself and one other case worker. The agency only worked with placing children with special needs, and she was never short on business. I went with her occasionally when her business took her to the farther ends of the state, and I saw these people who had so much love in their hearts as the took in these children with special needs.

Some of them already had children, some of them already had special needs children, but they still cared enough to take in more and treat them well. So just keep in mind when you take your cynical ideas of adoption, that these people are adopting because they have love to give to a child.

This. I grew up with a boy who had been badly abused before he was taken from his parents and adopted by a couple who wound up adopting six special needs children (he was special needs because of his emotional problems from all the abuse). His adoptive parents took in all these children because they loved them.

I also knew an elderly couple who, when they were younger, had decided not to have children of their own due to his family history of schizophrenia, and so they adopted ten children (including one who'd had polio and was disabled as a result), fostered fifty more, and are described as being like their own parents by every native of the town between 50 and 70. The woman also taught third grade for forty years.

I think some people are just very good with children. Others aren't, and no one should be forced into parenthood if they can't handle it, or don't want to be a parent.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

If these people are so pro-life, how come America still has the Death Penalty?

If they're so pro-life, how come America doesn't have some kind of NHS?

If they're so pro-life, how come America's education budget sucks and they have lousy sex-ed?

I honestly think it has something to do with belief in the Christian afterlife. It doesn't really matter what this world is like, because all the "good" people are going to live happily ever after Heaven. In fact the more this world sucks, and the more we all suffer, the better for our eternal souls. America never really grew out of its Puritan phase.

A friend of mine and I were discussing her wanting to get her tubes tied. She's 30, she and her husband have been married for going on 10 years, they've discussed the subject numerous times, and they've decided they don't want any children. She has trouble with birth control pills screwing her hormones around, and it would really be a lot more convenient if she or her husband were to get their tubes tied.

She apparently went to her OB/GYN to talk about the procedure, and he told her he wouldn't tie her tubes because 'she's too young to know that she doesn't really want kids.' He flat out won't do it. She's talked to other doctors about it, and they either try to sidetrack her by telling her she can't be absolutely SURE she doesn't want children, or tell her they'll only do it if her husband agrees. Mind you, her husband is fine with the idea, but he can't understand why he'd have to give his permission. It's her body, not his (a man can get a vasectomy without his wife's consent). If she gets pregnant, she's the one who has to carry the kid for nine months and give birth to it.

When did it become any of the doctor's business if a couple do or don't want kids? As she said, if they should decide later they do want children,t hey can always adopt. Or someone can get their tubes untied. It's not like she's asking them to take out her uterus.

Cyberwulf is right. What it boils down to is men wanting to have total control over women's bodies. Either inadequate or no sex education, deny access to the pill and abortion, make using condoms something that only 'bad girls' do. Then when the girl gets pregnant, call her a whore and a slut, while in most cases the guy gets off with a chuckle and a 'Oh, boys will be boys!" Because we all know that women make it impossible for men to keep it in their pants.

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deny access to the pill

Well that's the next step, isn't it - making it impossible for women to get contraception. And not just the emergency stuff. They're one junk study away from declaring that the pill sometimes stops a darling little embryo from implanting and then every godbag pharmacist will be crying 'conscience clause!' while refusing to fulfill your prescription for what he calls slut mints. By the way, don't think for a minute that you won't be pressured to sleep with whatever men are nearby just because getting pregnant is now a real danger instead of an outside chance every time you have sex.

I've known women who wanted their tubes tied after they had children and the doctor still tried to talk them out of it. My sister had it done after her second child. They decided two was enough. She even had the almost impossible to reverse kind done.
And now Rick Perry wants to run for President.
This is where we long for the days of Bush.

Owlish wrote:

I honestly think it has something to do with belief in the Christian afterlife. It doesn't really matter what this world is like, because all the "good" people are going to live happily ever after Heaven. In fact the more this world sucks, and the more we all suffer, the better for our eternal souls.

I have seen this exact argument used as a justification for genocide. By a modern theologian, no less. Yes, really. (link leads to a very harsh takedown of the essay in question, but links to the original at the very beginning. Not linking the original because it is down at this precise moment.)

TheHermit wrote:

Owlish wrote:

I honestly think it has something to do with belief in the Christian afterlife. It doesn't really matter what this world is like, because all the "good" people are going to live happily ever after Heaven. In fact the more this world sucks, and the more we all suffer, the better for our eternal souls.

I have seen this exact argument used as a justification for genocide. By a modern theologian, no less. Yes, really. (link leads to a very harsh takedown of the essay in question, but links to the original at the very beginning. Not linking the original because it is down at this precise moment.)

Hmm...

Quote :

And he said that as long as God gives the thumbs-up, it's okay to kill pretty much anybody. It's okay to kill bad people, because they're bad and they deserve it... and it's okay to kill good people, because they wind up in Heaven. As long as God gives the thumbs-up, it's okay to systematically wipe out entire races. As long as God gives the thumbs-up, it's okay to slaughter babies and children. Craig said -- not essentially, not as a paraphrase, but literally, in quotable words -- "the death of these children was actually their salvation."

On one hand, I can see where he's coming from: If an omniscient god says that wiping out a race is the right thing to do, who is mortal man to question it?
On the other, the is completely at odds with Genesis:

Quote :

Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD. Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

Once again he spoke to Him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

Then Abraham said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

So, if this is the mercy extended by the Old Testament Jahweh, who was a crankly old son of a bitch, "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" is absolutely unacceptable from a professed Christian.

Quote :

I think some people are just very good with children. Others aren't, and no one should be forced into parenthood if they can't handle it, or don't want to be a parent.

This so much. Laws what are anti-abortion scare me because if I would be the worst parent ever. Hell I'd end up being a parent in one of the news articles posted here with my luck. But I also don't like the foster system because the thought of giving up your kid to someone you don't know is a scary thought to me. Sure, they could end up being saints but they could also end up being mass muders who rape small puppies as a hobby. In my mind it could be kinder to get an abortion. Then again I'm crazy :

/ rant

There's really very few of the rapist kind of Fosters around. They just make a big noise when they hit the media fan.

Personally I think 30 is a little early to get those tubes tied just yet. But that's my opinion of course.

My mum had a hysterectomy after she'd had me, so I'm an only child.

...How was any of that relevant to the topic at hand?

I swear, that Ignore button needs to get fixed.

I think this law doesn't go far enough.

It's not enough to outlaw abortion. They need to go one step further and make pregnancy mandatory.

Every woman who can have children, must have children. Even if she's not married. Even if she's homeless. Even if she's a fucking nun, she still owes the planet a child! Hold her down and rape her so she can do her duty for the human race!


(All this is sarcasm, in case you didn't know. Just thought I'd say that in case someone reads this and reacts without thinking.)

EileenK98 wrote:

I think this law doesn't go far enough.

It's not enough to outlaw abortion. They need to go one step further and make pregnancy mandatory.

Every woman who can have children, must have children. Even if she's not married. Even if she's homeless. Even if she's a fucking nun, she still owes the planet a child! Hold her down and rape her so she can do her duty for the human race!


(All this is sarcasm, in case you didn't know. Just thought I'd say that in case someone reads this and reacts without thinking.)

You forgot women who suffer from medical problems where having a child would likely kill not only them, but possibly the baby (my sister, who was a Brittle Type 1 Diabetic, and died at age 38 of kidney and heart failure).

bleachedblackcat wrote:

But I also don't like the foster system because the thought of giving up your kid to someone you don't know is a scary thought to me. Sure, they could end up being saints but they could also end up being mass muders who rape small puppies as a hobby. In my mind it could be kinder to get an abortion. Then again I'm crazy :

/ rant

I can go one for ages on how fucked the foster care system is. Especially since my racial group is most effected by it and all.

If it's not the foster parents neglecting and abusing wards, it's the their foster siblings, if it isn't that it's their bio-parents that case workers left them with because they never got a follow up. There's a good reason why CPS in my city are called "Dumb, Helpless, and Stupid."

But will anti-choice/pro-lifers ever bring a vast reform to CPS? Fuck no.

Fucking disgusting.

Oh, but XLT, that would cost money! Then we might have to tax the rich people!

Pregnancy! The only thing a woman is any use for! That and cooking and washing up.

God, it's like they're treating women like those insects that have no mouth or digestive system, because they only live long enough to find a mate, breed, give birth and die.