 | Why God, Why?
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| | | John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux |  |
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+7Prisca712 Ceres Mae Bedlam Manny Keith Fraser Aggie Mr. Comic Book 11 posters | | Author | Message |
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Mr. Comic Book
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Join date : 2009-06-10
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| | Subject: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:01 pm | |
| Many of you know John Boorman as the filmmaker behind such classics as Point Blank, Deliverance, Excalibur, and The Tailor of Panama. He’s also the guilty party behind Zardoz and Exorcist II: The Heretic. Well, if things had gone differently for him, instead of Excalibur, you would have gotten his re-imagining of Lord of the Rings. Between 1970 and 1976, this was one of the projects he was working on, and got as far as building sets before the project got scrapped. Said sets and parts of his proposed script were repurposed into Excalibur, which for many is the definitive King Arthur movie.
His LotR, on the other hand, would have been kin to Zardoz.
To wit, information on his take can be found here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (page 3 of a five-page discussion of his version, script synopsis midway down the page)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (discussion of an interview with his co-writer Rospo Pallenberg)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (an examination of Boorman’s script, along with the Bakshi misfire and an unused earlier script)
And since I love you guys so much, here are some excerpts from the first two links:
- Quote :
- "The chore that was given to us by United Artists was one movie and, at the time, they produced long movies with an intermission. [The script] is 176 pages with an intermission on page 81, after the fellowship goes down the rapids, and you have a sense that they have now reached a great landscape as the river widens." The musical theme for "The Road Goes Ever On" accompanies this closing scene.
The script's first half, then, would have depicted most of The Fellowship of the Ring. Following the intermission, "we accelerated as we continued the story, and dropped things out. We were propelled by what we liked, and invented as we went along."
The screenplay takes liberties with the book, which would have upset Tolkien purists. Perhaps the most provocative change occurs in Lothlorien where, before gazing into Galadriel's mirror, Frodo must become intimate with her (this does not cause friction with husband Celeborn because he is not featured.)
Wow. Celeborn must really be a bad lay if Galadriel wants a piece of Frodo.
Oh, but it doesn’t stop there. The rest of the Fellowship wants to do her, too, including Legolas:
- Quote :
- After recognizing Galadriel, Legolas - who is clad in feathers and leaves. - tries to catch her attention by doing a bird-like dance.
The way to a woman’s heart is the Funky Chicken. (Oh, and Boromir “bares his muscles” and flexes to impress her. Try to imagine Sean Bean doing this. If you can, and you can avoid laughing your ass off, you’re a stronger person than I.) - Quote :
- The adaption is also highly creative and inventive (ideas which Pallenberg still hopes to use in some other epic project). The history of Middle-earth is told in an interesting way, although the writer would do it differently today. "I devised kind of a Kabuki play in which the story of Sauron and the creation of the rings was explained to a gathering in Rivendell. [Reading the script] 'A play has begun. The stage is the table (a huge round table). The acting is stylized, emphatic. As in Kabuki Theater, the costumes are flamboyant, and symbolize beings and entities of Middle-earth.'In other words, with this device, we tried to simplify the backstory. But I think if I were to revisit the scene now, I would think of a faster way of doing it."
Who knew the elves were Japanese theater nuts? (Oh, by the way, Elrond is bearded in this. Don’t ask why.) - Quote :
- New material for the dwarf Gimli came from Pallenberg's fondness for the character. "I remember liking him a lot. I knew quite a bit about Wagner's operas and the German literature. I was sympathetic to him, and I tried to work him in wherever I could. I believe it was I who came up with idea where they bury Gimli in a hole, throw a cape on him, and beat him up to utter exhaustion to retrieve his unconscious ancestral memory." This ancient knowledge allows Gimli to know the word for entering Moria, and to find insights about the ancient dwarf kingdom.
This is sympathetic? Kicking his ass and verbally abusing him just to get a password figured out? I’d hate to see what would have been if Pallenberg and Boorman hated the guy. - Quote :
- He mentioned another change.
"There's a duel between the magicians, Gandalf and Saruman. I was inspired by an African idea of how magicians duel with words, which I had read about. It was a way of one entrapping the other as a duel of words rather than special effects flashes, shaking staffs, and all that. I tried to keep away from that a lot, and Boorman did too. [Reads from script]:
GANDALF: Saruman, I am the snake about to strike!
SARUMAN: I am the staff that crushes the snake!
GANDALF: I am the fire that burns the staff to ashes!
SARUMAN: I am the cloudburst that quenches the fire!
GANDALF: I am the well that traps the waters! S: I am the toilet paper that wipes your ass!G: I am the shit that fouls your toilet paper!S: I am the toilet that flushes the shit!G: I am the sledgehammer that smashes the toilet!Just so you know, the dialogue excerpt between Gandalf and Saruman was recycled into Excalibur for a Merlin/Morgan Le Fay face-off. I don’t remember if it made the final cut or not, though. - Quote :
- Pallenberg continued, "Because it had to be one movie, and we couldn't waste time with too many complicated effects, I was an advocate of eliminating all flying creatures. I thought it would make it too rich, and it would depart too much from the ordinary. John Boorman agreed on that. At Minas Tirith, instead of a flying steed, the Nazgul Chief rides a horse that 'seems to have no skin. Its live, raw, bleeding flesh is exposed.' I still have this feeling that the dazzle can take away from the fundamental drama.
“But making you puke your guts out? That’s golden, man!”Seriously, a skinned, perpetually bleeding horse? This isn’t Texas Chainsaw Massacre, guys.And now, more crap from the script: - Quote :
- The Black Riders have
blind skull-like faces. It’s Skeletor’s family reunion! - Quote :
A path leads them out of the swirling petals into a field covered with mushrooms. The HOBBITS are delighted. They set to, picking and eating them as fast as they can. They begin to laugh and giggle, becoming rather unsteady on their feet. They lurch on their way with contented smiles on their faces. The world looks a little misty, different. Suddenly they are in a field of buttercups. Naked children run and play among the golden flowers. The HOBBITS blink and grin and MERRY belches. They run over a hill and into a flock of sheep, which opens up to let them through and closes behind them again. Now they are in a vast ploughed field. And there are perhaps fifty scarecrows, very nasty faces and scraggy arms fluttering in the wind. They hurry on, somewhat sobered. The last word that comes to mind regarding this script and its writers is “sober.” - Quote :
Frodo first uses the Ring when the hobbits encounter a group of men working in a field. The men have been told that a reward is being offered for capturing a Halfling, and Frodo teases them, saying, Oh, Im a Hobbit of the Shire. Am I the Halfling you desire? Then he somersaults through the air, putting on the Ring as he does so. Afterwards, Frodo excuses himself to Sam: It just got itself to slip itself on. Is it just me, or does this Frodo have no sense of self-preservation? - Quote :
- In the great hall, Frodo, unconscious, is lain naked and covered with leaves on a large, round crystal table. Arwen is assigned the task of removing the fragment of the wraith
s lance from Frodos shoulder, and she does so with a knife. Arwen is about thirteen years of age. The surgery is delicate in that it is, as Gandalf says, a struggle, a test of strength, between the power of Sauron and the power of the Elves. During this scene, Gimli - at Elronds behest - stands poised, ready to chop off Frodos fading arm should Arwen fail. I can buy the adult Arwen performing the surgery on Frodo, but a 13-year old? Isn’t that a bit much to expect? And wouldn’t Gimli hovering over her with an axe be setting her up for failure?Before I forget, Arwen wasn’t the only inappropriately young character in the script. Boorman apparently wanted to cast young boys as the hobbits at one point. Try to imagine a young kid as Frodo fucking the adult Galadriel and you’ve got the idea of just how warped Boorman’s ideas were. - Quote :
- Sauron, Elendil, Gil-galad, Saruman, Gandalf, Déagol, Gollum and Bilbo are all portrayed in the kabuki-like play mentioned earlier in this thread. (The actor who plays Sauron is described as
a combination of Mick Jagger and Punch.) Additionally, the play features one representative juggler for each of the three races of Middle-earth. Each performer handles a number of juggling rings equal to the number of Rings of Power that was entrusted to the race he represents. Throughout the play, a dog, which symbolizes fate, plays with a ball that is decorated by an encircling gold ring. The ball symbolizes the Ring itself. And from the third link, for further clarification: - Quote :
- To give Boorman his due, parts of the script have a compelling brilliance, though they are still unlike anything Tolkien wrote. The sober exposition of the Council of Elrond is recast as a fantastic medieval masque representing the history of the Rings. This highly stylized sequence combines elements of Kabuki theater, rock opera, and circus performance, and could almost be imagined as a later retelling of the legend by a tribe of decadent Dark Elves. It is strangely effective, and gets the necessary back-story across, but it is definitely not a straightforward adaptation of Tolkien’s work.
A Mick Jagger-like Sauron, circus performers, rock opera…that must have been some damn good cocaine Boorman was on. - Quote :
Arwen is something of a spiritual guide to the Fellowship -- a sort of guardian angel. She makes two appearances soon after the Fellowship leaves Rivendell. The first is brief: she shows herself to the Company from afar. The second takes place as Aragorn and Boromir come to blows over the fate of Narsil. (Boromir wants to take it to Minas Tirith. Aragorn refuses, and Boromir snatches away one half of the sword.) When their blades meet, Arwen appears, declaring that they shall each bear one half of the sword. They bow, presenting the blades. She kisses the swords, drawing blood. She then kisses each of the men. Both men are moved; and Boromir, weeping, kisses Aragorn, cementing a blood bond. Two words come to mind here: OW and HUH?!? | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:04 pm | |
| And now, Part Deux: - Quote :
- At one point, the Fellowship is crossing a glacier in the Misty Mountains. While resting around a campfire, Wargs attack them. Wargs are
furry-white mutants of men and animals, ferociously savage. Gandalf concocts a rather unusual method for escaping the Wargs. First he burns the hobbits elven-cloaks to strengthen the fire. (The roaring fire assists in warding off the Wargs.) So much for Frodo and Sam being able to hide at Mordor. Nice going, jackass! - Quote :
- Next he has his cohorts drink from a flask, the content of which makes them
tipsy and giggly. Then Gandalf has them lie in the ice water flowing from beneath the fire, and he rubs their eyeballs in a circular motion. Eventually Aragorn (who has kept the Wargs at bay) joins the party. After administering to him, Gandalf drinks from the flask, and then rotates his own peepers. The companions are caught in helpless and infectious giggles, as they drift into unconsciousness. Finally the water freezes over them, entombing them in the glacier. What is it with people getting high in this script? First the magic mushrooms, now the magic whiskey? Did Boorman and Pallenberg farm this script out to Cheech and Chong? - Quote :
- The Balrog
s presence has a paralysing effect on the Fellowship, causing them to progress in strange slow movements. This power wanes, waxes, and wanes again as the Balrog struggles with Gandalf, triggering the rest of the Fellowship to speed up and slow down obligingly as they make to cross the bridge So Zack Snyder isn’t the only one who likes putting needless speed-up/slo-mo gags in his fantasy movies. - Quote :
When Galadriel rebuffs Boromirs advance, Sam says, She is a pretty flower, but she badly needs watering, she does! “She is in definite need of a good porking, Captain!” - Quote :
In Fangorn, Merry and Pippin try to kill Gandalf, who they mistakenly believe is Saruman, the bad wizard. Gandalf (who isnt quite himself yet) remains silent, watching as the two hobbits ham their way through a demonstrative retelling of their story. When the hobbits reach the part of the tale where the Riders of Rohan appear, they ask Gandalf for his sword. He remains silent as they take it. Merry then hops on Pippins back, and together they charge Gandalf; but the sword is too heavy, and they fall down. Gandalf busts out laughing, becoming his old self again. Well, I guess they had to have pointless, unfunny comic relief somewhere in here…And Pippin gets embarrassed even further when he meets Denethor: - Quote :
Pippin is shown later dressed as a court jester, with cap and bells: The clothes do not fit too well, and are blood-stained and full of arrow-holes, suggesting the fate of his predecessor. Sheesh, even Billy Boyd, goofy as he tended to be, was never this silly! A court jester? Really? - Quote :
After Théoden crowns Éomer and dies, a giant snake - perhaps a hundred yards long - slithers onto the battlefield. Éomer charges the snake, but before reaching it, the banner of Elendil suddenly breaks through the snakes head. Then the rest of the snake breaks apart, revealing its components to be Aragorns collective army of Rangers, Elves, Dwarves, and the Dead -- their shields having been painted to resemble the patterns of a snake. Am I the only one who thought of the He-Man vehicle toys when reading this? This sounds just like the sort of thing you’d see in that toy line.Anyway, after Denethor tricks Aragorn into helping him commit assisted suicide, Aragorn proceeds to give Eowyn some sexual healing: - Quote :
After a moment, she moans, and her body writhes, trapped under ARAGORNs great weight. When he feels her stir, he rises, lifting her with him, enfolding her in his arms, pressing her mouth and body to his. Geez. Get a room, you two! - Quote :
- While this is happening Gandalf is performing a nifty tie-dye trick with a banner of Elendil. He folds the flag just so, and dips it into Denethor
s blood. When Éowyn comes to, Gandalf unfurls the banner to reveal a beautiful mandala in blood, radiating from the centre of the white tree. Gandalf has some really weird hobbies. - Quote :
- Then he holds it over Aragorn and Éowyn, and proclaims
The hands of the healer are the hands of the King! The King has returned to Gondor! A group of onlookers chant Aragorn King! Éowyn Queen! From their stuck position in the ground, the two halves of Narsil begin glowing, and Aragorn lifts them up and then joins them together. And now you know the reason why Arwen was regressed in age. Boorman was an Eowyn fanboy. (And I can just imagine how much the Viggo Mortensen/Miranda Otto fans would have loved this scene.) - Quote :
- Saruman is the Mouth of Sauron. Wormtongue accompanies him to meet the Captains. He carries with him an effigy of Frodo dressed in Frodo
s clothing. A cobra coils itself around Sarumans staff. At one point, the cobra strikes Saruman, but the bite causes the snake itself to die. This prompts Gandalf to initiate a wordplay contest between he and Saruman -- the extent of which was quoted earlier in this thread. This…is…POINTLESS!!! Even more so when Saruman’s fate is revealed!In case you’re wondering, after the ring is destroyed the effigy gets torn up and parceled out for souvenirs. - Quote :
- Soon after, they see men and orcs gathered around someone:
He is squatting on the ground playing the sleight-of-hand game of the cups and the pea. He has three helmets instead of cups and he uses a marble -- or is it an eyeball? The man glances up with an apologetic smile. It is SARUMAN. GANDALF shakes his head, despairing of SARUMAN. Uh…yeah. Look, at least Jackson had the decency to kill the guy off proper. This is just stupid. - Quote :
- From below a crowd of HOBBITS with banners of welcome comes up to meet him. SAM
s buxom GIRLFRIEND runs ahead and embraces him. It figures Rosie’s defining feature in this is her big tits. Boorman’s fantasy films have always had a preoccupation with sex, sometimes ridiculously so. Zardoz hilariously bordered on soft porn much of the time, and the spillover into this is obvious. - Quote :
- The script ends with Gandalf, Frodo, Bilbo, Galadriel, Arwen, and Elrond leaving Middle-earth on a sailing ship. A rainbow arcs over the vessel. Legolas, who is watching from shore with Gimli, says, "Look! Only seven colors. Indeed, the world is failing." "I think that's the ideology of the picture," said Pallenberg. "That is from me, not Tolkien. From a physics standpoint, it's incorrect to say that there could be more than seven colors, but what it's saying is, 'we live in a diminished world.'
" Please don’t try to make any sense of this. Your head will explode, I gar-on-tee it. | |
| | | | Aggie
Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Join date : 2009-06-11
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:15 pm | |
|  I often wonder why people want to produce a theatrical version of a classic novel if they want to change every single fucking thing in it. I'm no Tolkien purist but from the quotes posted, I am horrified beyond measure. If you want to rewrite the story so your ship happens, stick to fanfiction.
Last edited by Aggie on Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:01 pm | |
| Here's a list of characters and sequences Boorman and Pallenberg trashed from their script: - Quote :
- Missing characters of note:
Bombadil & Goldberry; Butterbur; Bill the pony; Glorfindel; Haldir; Celeborn; Théodred (Éomer & Éowyn are Théodens children.) Treebeard (no Ents at all) Hama; Ghân-buri-Ghân and Faramir.
Missing locations and events:
The Barrow-downs; Bree; the Watcher in the Water; Lórien (Galadriel and her people are relegated to a tent by a lake) the Argonath; the Falls of Rauros (relegated to rapids) Helms Deep; Isengard/Orthanc (no Rohan location at all, save Edoras) the Corsairs; the Houses of the Healing (Merry & Éowyn are healed at the Gate as the battle rages) Minas Morgul; Cirith Ungol (Shelob and the events at Cirith Ungol are relegated to Barad-dûr) the Eagles and the Scouring. Believe it or not, there are hardcore LotR purists who would have preferred this to the Peter Jackson films. Their reasons: - Jackson's films are failures because they're only 85-90% faithful to the books, and thus those small changes ruin the story in their eyes. Boorman and Pallenberg's script, being largely an original creation, is preferable because it's clearly its own entity and thus can be enjoyed on its own merits. - Jackson's films miss the point by playing the story as a historical fantasy adventure, and thus are dumbed down. Boorman and Pallenberg's script is vastly truer to the essence of Tolkien because at its core, it's high myth and therefore is a more intelligent, soulful piece. - If the Judy Garland Wizard of Oz can coexist with the Baum books and be a classic in its own right, Boorman and Pallenberg's script deserved the same fate rather than being scrapped by studio execs who couldn't understand what the hell Boorman and Pallenberg wrote. Yep, it's Ye Olde Selfish Fanboy Logic at work. The same logic (well, lack thereof) comic book fans marinate in. No big shock there. | |
| | | | Keith Fraser
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Join date : 2009-06-11
Age : 41
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:17 am | |
| My brain can barely even process half this stuff. It sounds like a Bored of the Rings-style parody. | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:01 pm | |
| - Keith Fraser wrote:
- My brain can barely even process half this stuff. It sounds like a Bored of the Rings-style parody.
I can see lot of Zardoz in this script. Not just because it was written concurrent with preproduction on that film, but a lot of Boorman's tics of that era are in full force with both pieces. The thing is, those tics failed to make Zardoz a profound exploration of immortality and abuse of power. They made that film a classic of piss-your-pants-funny bad movies. His LotR would have fallen into the same boat. | |
| | | | Manny
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:49 am | |
| The part of the script that has Legolas dancing for Galadriel while clad in feathers and leaves is what got me. Ye gods, I am glad we were spared this epic badfic. The image of the serpent biting Saruman, but it is the serpent who gets poisoned, was pretty much the only good idea in that mess.
Massive WTF's at FrodoxGaladriel and Boromir applying his bloody lips to any part of Aragorn's body. That is some classic badfic right there. :suspect: | |
| | | | Mae Bedlam
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:58 am | |
| It's sad that I kind of want to see a kabuki rock opera rendition of LotR.
But the Frodo/Galadriel sex scene squicks me to no end when I remember that Boorman apparently wanted actual child actors to play the hobbits. | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:38 pm | |
| - Manny wrote:
- The part of the script that has Legolas dancing for Galadriel while clad in feathers and leaves is what got me. Ye gods, I am glad we were spared this epic badfic. The image of the serpent biting Saruman, but it is the serpent who gets poisoned, was pretty much the only good idea in that mess.
Massive WTF's at FrodoxGaladriel and Boromir applying his bloody lips to any part of Aragorn's body. That is some classic badfic right there. :suspect: I think Aragorn healing Eowyn on the battlefield by fucking her on the spot is the biggest badfic moment of all. It takes all of the stupidity preceding it and pushes it right over the edge, and it completely obliterates any hope the film would end on anything resembling a note of dignity. If anything, it cements that this movie, if made, would have been nothing but laughably bad. I will say this, though; Boorman's idea of casting young boys as the hobbits would have launched a million pedophile jokes at Galadriel's expense. The de-aged Arwen would make a hell of a lot more sense as a girlfriend for Frodo in the context of this setup. But applying sense to this script is kind of futile, so.... | |
| | | | Ceres
Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-10
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:57 pm | |
| - Quote :
- GANDALF: Saruman, I am the snake about to strike!
SARUMAN: I am the staff that crushes the snake!
GANDALF: I am the fire that burns the staff to ashes!
SARUMAN: I am the cloudburst that quenches the fire!
GANDALF: I am the well that traps the waters! I AM... DARKWING DUCK! (Had to be done.) | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:14 pm | |
| Let's not forget Gimli calling Galadriel "a mighty piece of stone for a dwarvish tool to carve" and Sam calling her "a pretty flower, but she badly needs watering, she does."
It's American Pie in Middle Earth! | |
| | | | Prisca712
Join date : 2009-07-01
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:40 am | |
| - Ceres wrote:
-
- Quote :
- GANDALF: Saruman, I am the snake about to strike!
SARUMAN: I am the staff that crushes the snake!
GANDALF: I am the fire that burns the staff to ashes!
SARUMAN: I am the cloudburst that quenches the fire!
GANDALF: I am the well that traps the waters!
I AM... DARKWING DUCK!
(Had to be done.)  This is so much win - may I please sig this? - Aggie wrote:
-
I often wonder why people want to produce a theatrical version of a classic novel if they want to change every single fucking thing in it.
I'm no Tolkien purist but from the quotes posted, I am horrified beyond
measure. If you want to rewrite the story so your ship happens, stick
to fanfiction. THIS. It's one thing to change things that simply wouldn't work on screen, or even do an interpretation that is still respectful even if it's a bit different, but this just feels like a (somehow more crack-tacular) sequel to Zardoz with character names stolen from Tolkien. It really irks me because it comes across as a sort of bait and switch - use the name recognition of a beloved series to get butts in the seats, and then subject audiences to what is essentially your multimillion dollar fanfic on film. I never thought that there could be anything that could top the ridiculousness of the Bakshi and Rankin Bass versions, but this makes them look like immaculate adaptations. The random bloody man-kiss between Aragorn (who is first kissed by a 13 year old) and Boromir, the healing sex between Aragorn and Eowyn (I can barely believe I just typed that), the idea that Boorman wanted kids to be the hobbits and yet wanted Frodo to get it on with Galadriel, the constantly bleeding horse, the zillons of plot and character changes....this is the very definition of brain breaking. This actually manages to top a good 2/3 of the wacky LOTR badfics out there. It's so bad that it's making me wonder if, through guilt by association, it would've tainted the reputation of the actual LOTR book series in a similar way as Schumacher's Batman movies did to the Batman series... | |
| | | | Ceres
Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-10
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:46 pm | |
| ^ - Quote :
- This is so much win - may I please sig this?
Sure, go right ahead! | |
| | | | Sloth
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:08 pm | |
| There are some things in that interpretation that aren't too terribly bad and might have been creative and cool by themselves (the skinless horse kind of reminds me of a Nuckelavee), but when you take it all together it constitutes an inordinate mass of batshit craziness.
I'll be the first one to admit that I'm a shameless Tolkien nerd, but I can handle the modifications in PJ's adaptation: this, on the other hand, really grates on me because it stinks of 80s camp-fantasy softcore porn. What is it about crappy fantasy and nudity? Is it some kind of last-ditch attempt to add 'mature' and 'adult' themes to the genre in order to save it from appearing childish? Doing that sort of thing is basically just shitting all over the fantasy genre: "This stuff looks too kiddy. ADD SOME TITS." | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
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| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:27 pm | |
| - Sloth wrote:
- I'll be the first one to admit that I'm a shameless Tolkien nerd, but I can handle the modifications in PJ's adaptation: this, on the other hand, really grates on me because it stinks of 80s camp-fantasy softcore porn. What is it about crappy fantasy and nudity? Is it some kind of last-ditch attempt to add 'mature' and 'adult' themes to the genre in order to save it from appearing childish? Doing that sort of thing is basically just shitting all over the fantasy genre: "This stuff looks too kiddy. ADD SOME TITS."
What's funny is that Boorman's Excalibur -- which recycled some stuff from this LotR script -- had copious sex and nudity. However, since the King Arthur mythology is constantly changing, he was able to get away with it and have a critically acclaimed blockbuster on his hands. I think the fact that King Arthur is so much in flux gave Boorman a lot of freedom to play with the mythos, since Disney's Sword and the Stone already cornered the market on child-friendly tellings of the tale. LotR isn't that flexible. You have a set storyline and preexisting characters, themes, and motivations. The most you can do is what Jackson did: cut away everything non-essential, compress and combine events as needed, and stick to the core of the piece. Any changes beyond that would throw the whole thing off balance. What Boorman and Pallenberg would have done to it would have been akin to JJ Abrams' failed Superman Returns script where Krypton never exploded, Lex Luthor was Kryptonian, everyone knew kung fu, and Superman's suit was a living thing stored in a can. Maybe as a totally original piece, it might have been passable, but passing itself off as an iconic property would have been offensive beyond belief. As far as sex and nudity in fantasy films goes, I think it depends purely on the material in question. Conan the Barbarian had a reason for it; it was a feature of the original stories by Robert Howard. But yeah, if it's there just to have tits and ass without having a story or source material reason for being, it's needless. | |
| | | | Pierre Gringoire
Join date : 2009-07-24
Location : Home
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:48 am | |
| This sounds like it would have been one of the greatest unintentional comedies of all time. The child hobbits however, is just wrong on so many levels. | |
| | | | Mr. Comic Book
Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-06-10
Age : 45
Location : Wouldn't you like to know
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:13 pm | |
| - Pierre Gringoire wrote:
- This sounds like it would have been one of the greatest unintentional comedies of all time. The child hobbits however, is just wrong on so many levels.
The kid playing Frodo would have gotten a hell of a lesson about the birds and the bees beforehand. | |
| | | | Dick Powers
Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Join date : 2009-07-16
Location : Chillin with my homie Issun on Oni Island
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:01 pm | |
| You don't need a child to play Frodo since Elijah Wood looks boyish enough to fulfill every pedophile's fantasy, and he's legal. | |
| | | | Cactus Wren
Sporkbender
Join date : 2009-08-20
Location : West of Superstition
| | Subject: Re: John Boorman's LORD OF THE RINGS, Part Deux Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:39 am | |
| - Manny wrote:
- The image of the serpent biting Saruman, but it is the serpent who gets poisoned, was pretty much the only good idea in that mess.
Or might be if "Ever' time Ah got bit by a rattler, the rattler done died" hadn't been an old joke when JRRT was born. | |
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