Rabbi condemns Jewish women using non-Jewish sperm to conceive

Oh, and Jews are the only nice people ever, too.

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Rabbi Dov Lior, a senior authority on Jewish law in the Religious Zionism movement, asserted recently that a Jewish woman should never get pregnant using sperm donated by a non-Jewish man – even if it is the last option available.

According to Lior, a baby born through such an insemination will have the "negative genetic traits that characterize non-Jews." Instead, he advised sterile couples to adopt.

...What about Jewish people who have huge amounts of Gentile blood in their family tree (I'm pretty sure a guy like Jason Isaacs has some European genes in his genetic background)? What about Ethiopian Jews? What about Gentiles who converted to Judaism and are religiously, though not ethnically, Jewish?

*imagines this rabbi endlessly attempting to handwave this away*

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"Sefer HaChinuch (a book of Jewish law) states that the character traits of the father pass on to the son," he said in the lecture. "If the father in not Jewish, what character traits could he have? Traits of cruelty, of barbarism! These are not traits that characterize the people of Israel."

Sooooo... all of those horrible, horrible, horrible kings you can read about in the Books of Kings? You know, the ones who did child sacrifice and worshiping other gods and generally being oppressive, horrible asshats? Were they magically not genetically Jewish?

Also, there's the undeniable fact that even the notable Jewish (and non-Jewish) people who did try to obey God are still recorded in the Bible as sometimes doing horrible things, and the fact that sometimes non-Jews come off better in the Old Testament (in individual stories) then the Jewish people they interact with.

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Lior added identified Jews as merciful, shy and charitable – qualities that he claimed could be inherited. "A person born to Jewish parents, even if they weren't raised on the Torah – there are things that are passed on (to him) in the blood, it's genetic," he explained. "If the father is a gentile, then the child is deprived of these things."

Ooookay.

Jewish religious leaders and intellectuals need to stand up as one and kick this racist, hateful asshat to the curb, seriously. More shit like this is about the last thing that the Middle East in particular or the world in general needs.

Wait wait wait... I'm not an expert on the topic, but I thought the Jewish ethnicity was regarded as matrilineal...

*googles*

I know it's wiki, but it sounds as though most flavors of Judaism use matrilineal or bilineal reasoning, "bilineal" meaning that the child is viewed as Jewish if either the mother or the father are Jewish.

Xenophobia. Everyone's doing it.

I suppose those shrapnel showers in Palestine are acts of mercy then? Or perhaps they deserve it because they have negative non-Jewish traits?

Jews are xenophobic, racist bastards. Didn't you know? I guess you have to live in a bastion of Jewish xenophobic racism like Israel to be as painfully aware of it as I am.

In the last month or so there's been a big outcry because a large group of religious leaders in Israel published an open letter where they call to prevent non-Jews from living in Jewish neighborhoods and to ostracize anyone who dares go against that. Then a bunch of religious leaders' wives published an open letter to the girls of Israel to never date a non-Jew because non-Jewish men will obviously be abusive jerkwads. Sadly, the outcry is very much a leftist journalist thing. Most people won't admit it, but they're really down with the general tone of those letters.

And this is why I want out so badly, ladies and gentlemen. These days I feel like the only sane person around here because I don't hate everyone.

Yay, another religious leader who thinks he can dictate to women what to do with their bodies. Let's sic him on Benedict and see if they cancel each other out.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Yay, another religious leader who thinks he can dictate to women what to do with their bodies. Let's sic him on Benedict and see if they cancel each other out.

I would pay to see that.

Lady Anne wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Yay, another religious leader who thinks he can dictate to women what to do with their bodies. Let's sic him on Benedict and see if they cancel each other out.

I would pay to see that.

Sunday. Sunday! SUNDAY!

Stay tuned to the spiritual pumping action! Benedict "The De-Condomnator" XVI has the bone-crushingest chapel-scorchifying sermons for this season of mayhem, Mayhem, MAYHEM! The streets will run red with Torah revving Dov Lior and the thundercasting destroyokippah! It promises five straight days of non-stop turbo charged crazy God action!!

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"Sefer HaChinuch (a book of Jewish law) states that the character traits of the father pass on to the son," he said in the lecture.

That's cool, there's a 50/50 chance it won't matter anyway.

Snake Bandage wrote:

Jews are xenophobic, racist bastards. Didn't you know? I guess you have to live in a bastion of Jewish xenophobic racism like Israel to be as painfully aware of it as I am.

In the last month or so there's been a big outcry because a large group of religious leaders in Israel published an open letter where they call to prevent non-Jews from living in Jewish neighborhoods and to ostracize anyone who dares go against that.

Why, exactly? Just because they're not Jewish? Do you mean like Palestinians, other Arabs, or Gentile people who aren't Palestinian or Arab?

Honestly, that's starting to sound like "A Raisin in the Sun" territory. I wonder if these religious leaders would send out a "community welcoming committee" to any particularly brave non-Jewish families moving into a Jewish neighborhood.

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And this is why I want out so badly, ladies and gentlemen. These days I feel like the only sane person around here because I don't hate everyone.

Anyway, found this. It's more wonderful racism from Dov Lior:

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Rabbi Dov Lior, the rabbi of Kiryat Arba is an ethically challenged individual. Never has this been more clear than today, when Rabbi Lior issued a ruling regarding refugees from Darfur who have fled to safety in Israel. First, Rabbi Lior's ruling :

Israel must not allow Darfur refugees into its territory or enable them to stay in the country, Kiryat Arba's rabbi Dov Lior said in a halachic ruling published on Arutz Sehva's website Wednesday.

"We are not currently in a state of peace. We are in a state of war, surrounded by enemies, and we don't know whether tomorrow they (the refugees) will join those who hate us," Rabbi Lior said. "Therefore, the State of Israel must not allow such a thing."

Yes, because the dirt-poor, starving, mostly Christian refugees who you've sheltered from being terrorized, murdered, and raped, who've likely seen most of the people they knew and loved slaughtered by terrorists, are such a potent national security threat. For fuck's sake, does he not realize that Darfur refugees will likely have such horrible PTSD that they will most likely never want to see a weapon brandished or any sort of violence ever again?

Also, maybe being kind to them would help them to, you know, not turn against you?

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The rabbi added that the fact that Sudan fought against Israel during the War of Independence in 1948 was another reason why the refugees should be rejected.

See above.

I see we have learned much from WW2. Just not the important stuff, apparently.

I miss those good old times when uberzealous people like these did not mess with politics because they were inherently evil - see Non Expedit, see Israel in its first ten years. As soon as politicians start catering to religious conservatives, compromise, which is what politics should be about, is shot to hell.

On the other hand I can't think of a single country in the world from Abyssinia to Zimbabwe in which a couple would be sincerely happy that their daughter is going to marry someone from outside the ethnic group.

The Unoriginal wrote:

On the other hand I can't think of a single country in the world from Abyssinia to Zimbabwe in which a couple would be sincerely happy that their daughter is going to marry someone from outside the ethnic group.

What if they just don't care? If I had kids, I wouldn't particularly care if my son or daughter married someone of another race. That's their choice. I'd just care that they were marrying a kind person who would take care of them.

Then again, it's nice to see that when someone says something repulsive and racist that they're not condemned for it because MOSES MAIMONIDES.

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“Those who are incapable of attaining to supreme religious values include the black coloured people and those who resemble them in their climates. Their nature is like the mute animals. Their level among existing things is below that of a man and above that of a monkey.” (Maimonides, Guide To The Perplexed, Translation from the Hebrew Version)

The author of the blog points out that yes, this is horribly racist and stupid, though admittedly it was a viewpoint held by more people, both Jews and non-Jews, than just Maimonides at that time, and that furthermore the viewpoint is not backed up by anything in the Torah, it's just Maimonides' opinion.

To which someone responds:

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Please leave the holy and revered Maimonidies out of this type of debate. I would be scared to use the word "stupidity" in connection with anything that he said.

.... Wait, what? I was raised Lutheran and I can fully admit that a lot of what Luther said was anti-Biblical in its hatred for others, including Catholics and Jews. Same with Augustine, who I believe inadvertently crippled Christianity for centuries with a gnostic, superstitious view of women and sexuality.

So where does this guy get off saying Maimonides is "holy and revered"? Isn't that actually a bit blasphemous, considering Maimonides was but a human, and not God?

Just, seriously, this sort of thinking is why people like Dov Lior can get up and parade about saying the racist, hateful crap that they say. Because no one criticized people like Maimonides for the stuff that he said!

Malganis wrote:

Snake Bandage wrote:

Jews are xenophobic, racist bastards. Didn't you know? I guess you have to live in a bastion of Jewish xenophobic racism like Israel to be as painfully aware of it as I am.

In the last month or so there's been a big outcry because a large group of religious leaders in Israel published an open letter where they call to prevent non-Jews from living in Jewish neighborhoods and to ostracize anyone who dares go against that.

Why, exactly? Just because they're not Jewish? Do you mean like Palestinians, other Arabs, or Gentile people who aren't Palestinian or Arab?

It applies to gentiles in general. Arabs are "the worst", of course, and they don't even distinguish whether it's Palestinians or Israeli Arabs or even Christian Arabs who are by far the most well-integrated in Israeli society. They seem to think that Druze are equally bad, mostly because they're "brown" and speak Arabic. And Christians are horrible people who are out to convert your children to their horrible religion! All the other gentiles, especially refugees, are dirty savages who spread disease. Our current Interior Minister is very keen on that last notion.

And that's not even mentioning the rampant racism within Judaism itself... But that's another story for another day.

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Honestly, that's starting to sound like "A Raisin in the Sun" territory. I wonder if these religious leaders would send out a "community welcoming committee" to any particularly brave non-Jewish families moving into a Jewish neighborhood.

Orthodox Jews do that to other Jews all the time. It's just a matter of time before they do that to non-Jews. :|

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And this is why I want out so badly, ladies and gentlemen. These days I feel like the only sane person around here because I don't hate everyone.

I KNOW RIGHT.

Ohhh, wait, it's that dude is from Kiryat Arba? Fuck that guy. And fuck Kiryat Arba too, everyone in there is a selfish asshole of a semi-legal settler who should get their asses kicked out. (And if I say that out loud in Israel I'd get lynched!)

Dear Rabbi Dior,

GENETICS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY! What you are ascribing to genetics are, in fact, character traits, which are generally determined by how a child is raised. Genetics controls such factors as hair, eye and skin color, predisposition to certain diseases, and other things. What sort of person a child becomes is, to a large extent, determined by how and where they are raised. I say by and large, because it is possible for a child raised in a loving, caring family to grow up and become a mass murderer. Conversely, it is possible for a child raised in abusive poverty to grow up and become a Nobel Prize winner.

I heard much this same argument from an elderly neighbor lady when I was a teenager. She and her husband had no children of their own, and when I asked her once why they'd never adopted, she said because they didn't want to get a baby with 'bad blood.' Apparently, it being an accepted fact that, unless you knew that an abandoned newborn's parents had both been good, church-going Christians, you stood the chance of getting a child whose mother had been a common whore and whose father was likely a drunkard, which meant that even if he was raised from infancy in a good home where he was loved, he'd bring you nothing but heartache because he had 'bad blood' in his veins, and everyone knew that nature was stronger than nurture.

I thought it was stupid then, and it's just as stupid name masquerading under another name. Humans are not like animals-you cannot 'breed' bloodlines with certain desirable traits. God knows people have tried in the past, and I can't believe that someone who belongs to a group that a Madman wanted to wipe completely off the face of the Earth could subscribe to such a ridiculous theory.

You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

Sincerely,

Badger

PS-I am not Jewish and only nominally Christian, so none of my opinions are based on religious factors, but on plain common sense.

The Unoriginal wrote:

On the other hand I can't think of a single country in the world from Abyssinia to Zimbabwe in which a couple would be sincerely happy that their daughter is going to marry someone from outside the ethnic group.

A friend of mine who is black married a Jewish guy last May. Her parents' reaction? "Hooray! She finally found someone decent!" His parents' reaction? "We knew we'd get you married off eventually." (Both the bride and groom were in their 40s and embarking on their first marriage.)

Cyberwulf wrote:

Yay, another religious leader who thinks he can dictate to women what to do with their bodies. Let's sic him on Benedict and see if they cancel each other out.

Of course, they might team up and become MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE.

It all depends on who they hate more: women, or people of other religions.

ZoZo wrote:

Cyberwulf wrote:

Yay, another religious leader who thinks he can dictate to women what to do with their bodies. Let's sic him on Benedict and see if they cancel each other out.

Of course, they might team up and become MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU COULD POSSIBLY IMAGINE.

Kind of like Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader?

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It all depends on who they hate more: women, or people of other religions.

You know, I'd never thought of the sexist angle of this before Cyber pointed it out, but I'd honestly say that this Lior guy probably hates non-Jews more than he's a sexist. He tried to get Darfur refugees kicked out of Israel. That's cold.

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Kind of like Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader?

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Malganis wrote:

You know, I'd never thought of the sexist angle of this before Cyber pointed it out, but I'd honestly say that this Lior guy probably hates non-Jews more than he's a sexist.

Makes no difference. Misogyny is misogyny, even when it's a consequence of xenophobia.

Ya think that Jewish people would be the last ones to be racist - of all things. If anyone else says something about "Jewish genes", all hell breaks loose. Because it's racist, and racism is always stupid...and makes me a very saaad panda.

Bad blood? What's that, anyway?

The Scientist wrote:

Ya think that Jewish people would be the last ones to be racist - of all things. If anyone else says something about "Jewish genes", all hell breaks loose. Because it's racist, and racism is always stupid...and makes me a very saaaaaad panda.

To the bolded: Be careful where you tread.

To the italicized: Read a bit of Jewish history and you'll find they have a lot of reasons to be xenophobic and paranoid. Doesn't make it right, but it does make sense.

I didn't mean it like that! I think humans all have basically the same genes, and segregating people because of their genetic background is awful. People who defend eugenics in any way, imo, are morons.

Thanks for the warning, though.

The Scientist wrote:

I didn't mean it like that! I think humans all have basically the same genes, and segregating people because of their genetic background is awful. People who defend eugenics in any way, imo, are morons.

Thanks for the warning, though.

Sorry, it's just that usually when someone says something like...

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If anyone else says something about "Jewish genes", all hell breaks loose

It's usually followed by that person wondering why damn political correctness is preventing us from calling them kikes and banishing them from our communities anymore.

Yes, there are some retards around who'll say stuff like that. I believe that isolating people because of their religion or whatever is about the worst thing you can do - no matter who you are.

You know, common sense, actually.

I have Jewish ancestry - so, at one point, one of my forebearers has mingled their genes with non-Jewish genes (whatever that means, because my ancestors were all Europeans). The Earth is still turning.

genetic diversity is a good thing, right?

Lady Anne wrote:

A friend of mine who is black married a Jewish guy last May. Her parents' reaction? "Hooray! She finally found someone decent!" His parents' reaction? "We knew we'd get you married off eventually." (Both the bride and groom were in their 40s and embarking on their first marriage.)

I'm glad to hear that there are non-assholish people in this sorry world. My MIL scoffed her son for having found a "bizjak" of all people... meaning that I lived across the fucking river and therefore a bad apple.

The Scientist wrote:

Yes, there are some retards around who'll say stuff like that. I believe that isolating people because of their religion or whatever is about the worst thing you can do - no matter who you are.

You know, common sense, actually.

I have Jewish ancestry - so, at one point, one of my forebearers has mingled their genes with non-Jewish genes (whatever that means, because my ancestors were all Europeans). The Earth is still turning.

genetic diversity is a good thing, right?

Well it makes the world an interesting place, and makes you dodge a lot of genetic bullets. Jews of all people ought to know, given how they have to carefully examine their genetic trees before arranging a marriage.