in India, 30 bags of aborted fetus bones found in pit.

Just read.

Quote :

Police in the eastern Indian state of Orissa say they have recovered nearly 30 bags full of babies' body parts from a waste dump near a maternity clinic.
Forensic tests are being carried out on the remains following the raid near the town of Nayagarh on Sunday.

It is thought the find could be linked to the killing of female foetuses - a practice fairly widespread in India.

According to one estimate, up to 10m female foetuses may have been aborted in the country in the past two decades.

I got nothin.

Quote :

Last year, police recovered 25 foetuses from a well in northern Punjab state. Tests to find out the gender of the baby and “sex-selective abortions” are banned under strict Indian laws, but prosecutions are rare.

Oh, fantastic.

Seriously. It's late, this story is brain bleachingly horrific, and I got nothin. Maybe when I get up tomorrow, I can express what I really feel. I mean it's something along the lines of wishing I could perform an act that involves barbed wire, several people's feces, and their digestive tract, but I don't feel like going into detail at the moment. Enjoy.

It's funny how they're pretty much going to end up with no women at all soon enough. Doesn't make this any less horrifying, but it's going to backfire on these idiots' precious baby boys when they want to get married and can't find anybody.

Nevvy wrote:

It's funny how they're pretty much going to end up with no women at all soon enough. Doesn't make this any less horrifying, but it's going to backfire on these idiots' precious baby boys when they want to get married and can't find anybody.

Yup, it's been happening for a while now. It's also happening in China as well.

Don't know what you got 'til it's gone, huh guys?

What is it with killing off female babies?

Are these people totally ignorant of the fact that the Egg is so much more valuble and limited than the Sperm? That half a dozen fertile men could repopulate the earth?

Why do prides of lions only need one or two males? Why do hyena clans drive out many males? Why do female arachnids eat their mates?

Yeah, they probably are that ignorant. Well, this will sure solve their population problems.

Oh yeah, and religion really solves those "Do not kill" problems...

Welcome to the Word of the Day, Harley!
Today's word is: dowry.

I say let them continue doing this. When all their precious little boys can't find a girl because all of those girls were killed before they were born, then they might figure it out.

Maybe...

Braigwen wrote:

I say let them continue doing this. When all their precious little boys can't find a girl because all of those girls were killed before they were born, then they might figure it out.

Maybe...

I doubt it.

Ick, something about intentionally getting pregnent knowing full well there is a 50/50 chance you will abort. People should do what they can to avoid getting an abortion, imho.

Jesus. wrote:

Braigwen wrote:

I say let them continue doing this. When all their precious little boys can't find a girl because all of those girls were killed before they were born, then they might figure it out.

Maybe...

I doubt it.

And even if they do, it's not like having the oh shit epiphany will actually change anything. The population's sex ratios will still be all screwed up, with no fix in sight beyond mail-order brides.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ick, something about intentionally getting pregnent knowing full well there is a 50/50 chance you will abort. People should do what they can to avoid getting an abortion, imho.

I agree with you in principle, but I don't really think this is what you're thinking it is... the women who get (or are given) these abortions are probably mostly married women who just have sex with their husbands, with pregnancies probably not being intentionally 'tried for' all the time. I'm sure it's very difficult for many of these women to undergo what might be pregnancy after pregnancy, only to be pressured to either abort if it's a girl or have the girl be killed soon after birth. I doubt these abortions or infanticides would necessarily be the first choices of many of these women.

Maybe there needs to be a mass refusal of women to become pregnant in protest against this practice, I don't know. Something needs to be done. But then again, given that wives are sometimes murdered by their husbands and in-laws for much lesser things than refusing their husbands' sexual advances...

I'm not necessarily saying this is men versus women (I've heard local midwives do a lot of the infanticide in these cases, so women are definitely capable of supporting and promoting an anti-woman way of life), but it is misogynistic to the core.

Also, the sadly ironic thing is that ultrasounds (if that's what they're using to sex the fetuses) can be inaccurate. Everyone thought that my boyfriend was gonna be a girl after his mom's ultrasound.

I read somewhere that China may be short 100 million females (both due to abortions and girls being adopted by families in other countries). And the government is only just starting to make exceptions for the one-child plan. India, on the other hand, doesn't even have a one-child plan that I'm aware of. So all this is going on without the restrictions to family size that Chinese people have.

Nevvy wrote:

It's funny how they're pretty much going to end up with no women at all soon enough. Doesn't make this any less horrifying, but it's going to backfire on these idiots' precious baby boys when they want to get married and can't find anybody.

Braigwen wrote:

I say let them continue doing this. When all their precious little boys can't find a girl because all of those girls were killed before they were born, then they might figure it out.

Maybe...

This is starting to happen in China. Guess what the consequence is.

If you said, "women are being kidnapped", you were correct.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ick, something about intentionally getting pregnent knowing full well there is a 50/50 chance you will abort. People should do what they can to avoid getting an abortion, imho.

You're so right! Murdering bitches getting pregnant on purpose just to flush the baby down the toilet, how dare they! A culture which places so little value on women that female foetuses are selectively aborted despite the practice being illegal surely grants every freedom to grown women - including the right to refuse sex and the right to do as they please with the contents of their own uteruses - so there's simply no excuse.

Malganis wrote:

Maybe there needs to be a mass refusal of women to become pregnant in protest against this practice, I don't know.

What fucking planet do the two of ye live on?

Quote :

I'm not necessarily saying this is men versus women

Please, don't coddle the Liberal Dudes. This absolutely IS men versus women. This is a culture that favours boys and men over girls and women to the extent that female foetuses are being selectively aborted. This is a culture where women are BURNED ALIVE because their families won't pony up more dough to their inlaws. This, my dear, is Patriarchy.

Quote :

(I've heard local midwives do a lot of the infanticide in these cases, so women are definitely capable of supporting and promoting an anti-woman way of life),

I'm totally sure the midwives are responsible for the overarching cultural notion that girl babies are worthless and should be culled.

The way the female population is going, forget about paying to get your daughter married; soon enough it's gonna be the parents of the son paying so their sons can get married to one of the few women around.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Quote :

I'm not necessarily saying this is men versus women

Please, don't coddle the Liberal Dudes. This absolutely IS men versus women. This is a culture that favours boys and men over girls and women to the extent that female foetuses are being selectively aborted. This is a culture where women are BURNED ALIVE because their families won't pony up more dough to their inlaws. This, my dear, is Patriarchy.

I meant that more in the sense that not every man who lives in that system supports that system by his actions, and not every woman helps to lessen it by her actions (or, in fact, she actively supports it). But, point taken.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Quote :

(I've heard local midwives do a lot of the infanticide in these cases, so women are definitely capable of supporting and promoting an anti-woman way of life),

I'm totally sure the midwives are responsible for the overarching cultural notion that girl babies are worthless and should be culled.

I didn't say they were responsible for the notion, only that they're supporting it by their actions. Now, what motivates those actions could be any combination of a number of things -- money, a genuine belief that they're doing something good for these families/couples, fear of what might happen to them if they refuse to kill the infant(s), a lot of other things -- but they are supporting it by performing infanticide. People are sadly capable of completely supporting their own oppression.

Strychnine wrote:

Who gives a damn about these fucked up countries anyway?

Ooooooh, they're so disgusting. Spain vs Chile tomorrow, can't wait.

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We already have FIFA talk dammit. Keep it to the thread.

Well, guys. I must say. This news makes me laugh. Not for what it is (IE, wholesale murder), but for what it represents. All you pro-choice retards rely on a core premise. That human beings (or, in one singular example, women alone) are altruistic (or just not too short-sighted) to act for the good of all, despite societal pressures. Well, you just got proven dead-wrong, and now India is going to have to pay for your gross naiveté. Will those pro-abortion groups that pushed their moral poison on the Indian people ever be brought to justice for their crimes? I doubt it. They're the darling of the Liberals and will be treated accordingly. So, yes, go ahead, say "Killing fetuses because I couldn't keep my legs together makes me a feminist", but don't you fucking dare say "We're not as bad."

Strychnine wrote:

Who gives a damn about these fucked up countries anyway?

Ooooooh, they're so disgusting. Spain vs Chile tomorrow, can't wait.

Oh, bb, you so [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Now run along, sweetie.

Princess wrote:

I want to be Psy so bad I'll kill him and wear his skin.

Unskilled, go home.

Cyberwulf wrote:

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Ick, something about intentionally getting pregnent knowing full well there is a 50/50 chance you will abort. People should do what they can to avoid getting an abortion, imho.

You're so right! Murdering bitches getting pregnant on purpose just to flush the baby down the toilet, how dare they! A culture which places so little value on women that female foetuses are selectively aborted despite the practice being illegal surely grants every freedom to grown women - including the right to refuse sex and the right to do as they please with the contents of their own uteruses - so there's simply no excuse.

I apologise for not being specific enough. When I said "getting pregent" I was not just referring to women and their actions. It takes two people to make a baby, and if the man is the one who wants it (or the unprotected sex that leads to it, whatever), and the man who is pushing an abortion, then it is the man who is "intentionally getting pregnent knowing full well there is a 50/50 chance you will abort." I was not actually thinking about the women these babies were coming from at all, so I did not realize I sounded like I was accusing them of anything. Actually I was more thinking along the lines that the fathers of these girls should be be using condoms.

If we absolutely must add gasoline:

Remember, this is thirty bags full of potential women. No actual women were harmed.

Reepicheep-chan wrote:

Actually I was more thinking along the lines that the fathers of these girls should be be using condoms.

I understand what you're saying (and why you're saying it) but I still don't think you get it. These guys most likely don't want to prevent pregnancies (unless they are so poor that they cannot afford to even have a child or children). They most likely want children (say, for example, a man who's a farmer will likely want a son or sons to carry on the family business and work on his farm). They just don't want girl children.

A whole hell of a lot of people around the world -- particularly people who physically work very hard for their living and/or are very poor -- look at their children in a sort of pragmatic and somewhat unsentimental way; children aren't necessarily just continuations of one's genetic line, they're workers. You raise a bunch of sons (or one son) to who you eventually pass on your family business, but before that, you put them to work for you, literally.

gaijinguy wrote:

Jesus. wrote:

Braigwen wrote:

I say let them continue doing this. When all their precious little boys can't find a girl because all of those girls were killed before they were born, then they might figure it out.

Maybe...

I doubt it.

And even if they do, it's not like having the oh shit epiphany will actually change anything. The population's sex ratios will still be all screwed up, with no fix in sight beyond mail-order brides.

Mail-order brides come from these places. Where are they to get theirs?

Edit: lol at how cyberwulf is for abortion as long as female fetuses aren't being aborted

gaijinguy wrote:

If we absolutely must add gasoline:

Remember, this is thirty bags full of potential women. No actual women were harmed.

Bro, I love ya. :D Why the hell don't you call more often?

I do agree that this is a pretty tangled mess, though. Something's gone horribly wrong with the way people think here. I can't say I'm surprised (see: suttee) but that doesn't make it any easier to understand.

People think that a male is more valuable because he can work, inherit the family name, etcetera, but if it weren't for the customs decreeing it so, women could do all that too. Peasant women have been farming for hundreds of years--there's no rule that says women can't contribute to agriculture or subsistence-level living. *headshake* God, what a clusterfuck. And when they start running low on available brides in 15 or 20 years, shit is going to hit the fan in a major way. Again, China.

As The Unoriginal hinted at, the main problem in India would probably be the dowry custom. Families have to pay exorbitant sums to get their daughters married off, which can put an enormous strain on family finances. If this custom could be done away with, the situation would probably not be nearly as dire.

Of course, the underlying problem is that women are seen as a burden to be provided for, both by their families and their husbands (the families probably would not pay dowries to get rid of their daughters in the first place if they thought it more economical and not shameful to have them remain unmarried).

Unless this view can be changed (and there are some efforts being made in rural India to educate young women in the necessary skills to earn a living for themselves, although they seem to be very small-scale at this point), this sad practice is going to continue.

Re: attempts to conflate sex-selective abortion with the western pro-life/pro-choice debate: The crux here is that most of these families feel forced to abort female fetuses due to financial considerations imposed on them by a social structure which places little value on women. Other than in most western countries, rural India has no financial support structure in place whatsoever (especially not for the aforementioned dowries), which effectively makes these abortions not a matter of choice, but (in the eyes of these couples) necessity. In short, it has very little to do with the western debate on the issue, but nice try.

Have an interesting text on female infanticide and sex-selective abortion in China and India.

Tungsten Monk wrote:

And when they start running low on available brides in 15 or 20 years, shit is going to hit the fan in a major way. Again, China.

It already is a problem now. Yeah, more so in China, but also in India. Some other Asian countries have recognized that danger years ago and tackled it.

Saleha wrote:

As The Unoriginal hinted at, the main problem in India
would probably be the dowry custom. Families have to pay exorbitant
sums to get their daughters married off, which can put an enormous
strain on family finances. If this custom could be done away with, the
situation would probably not be nearly as dire.

I read something in the Economist (and I would link to this, but that was back in March and the article is now only available to people with subscriptions) that in some parts of India the dowry was either lowered or done away with due to the lack of women. The sheer force of the "market" might make a difference there. It doesn't really look like it in China, yet.