God Says: CHOOSE THIS CANDIDATE!

Yeah, sometimes, I hate my state:

Pastors divided over Howie's pulpit challenge

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One Rapid City pastor has accepted gubernatorial candidate Gordon Howie's challenge to defy federal tax law and endorsed Howie from the pulpit.

Separation of church and state anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

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"The Johnson Amendment was merely a rider to a tax code. It is unconstitutional, impossible to enforce, cannot stand up in a court of law and has never been enforced on any church since its passage," said Scott Craig, a Howie supporter who recently moved to Rapid City from Hawaii to pastor the new Bighorn Canyon Community Church. In 2008, Craig was one of 30 pastors who endorsed John McCain over Barack Obama from the pulpit and provided the IRS with video and written documentation. None of those churches have faced revocation of their tax-exempt status to date, but the IRS said some investigations are still open.
Craig believes churches are constitutionally guaranteed their tax-exempt status as part of the founding fathers' desire to promote freedom of religion and freedom of speech, not as a reward for refraining from political activity as part of a church-state separation issue. "It's important for the nation to reframe this whole question, not as a church-state separation issue, but as a free speech issue. Specifically endorsing candidates from the pulpit is not breaking the law, as the nation has been led to believe," he said.

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Williams cited Howie's "boldness in defending the free speech rights of clergy" as instrumental in gaining his support, according to a news release from Howie's campaign. "I believe Gordon Howie has clearly demonstrated the courage of character and conviction to take a position that has long been forgotten and lost in this country," Williams said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought one of the reasons why it's considered illegal and more importantly unethical for pastors and other religious leaders in a position of authority over their congregation is because they had such sway with them. "GOD SAYS ELECT THIS MAN!"

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Craig disagreed, saying pastors have a responsibility to educate their flock on God's laws, including which elected officials do the best job of following those laws. Pastors who don't are "not doing their jobs."

O.o

Thankfully, there are some sane people here:

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Not from the Rev. Jeff Otterman, pastor of St. James Lutheran Church in Belle Fourche, however. He called Howie's Pulpit Challenge irresponsible and insulting to his congregation.
"The people at St. James are very well-read, and they don't need their pastor telling them how to vote, or who to vote for," Otterman said. "To back one candidate over another seems far-reaching and could alienate a congregation rather than create opportunity for growth."
At Synagogue of the Hills, vice president Wayne Gilbert said its congregants hold divergent political opinions but all agree not to jeopardize the synagogue's tax-exempt status over political activity.
"I don't think any responsible leader of a tax-exempt religious group would be willing to risk tax-exempt status to endorse a candidate," Gilbert said.
Gilbert said the idea "that I should be instructed by a religious leader as to which candidate has the moral or religious high ground is personally insulting to me. I expect religious leaders to offer me insight and guidance into spiritual and moral matters, not secular and political ones."

Exactly!

Nothing is at all preventing them from voicing their beliefs. However, you cannot take government money (which is what the tax-exempt status amounts to) and then make political statements. This is to prevent two things: first, it is to prevent religious takeover of government. The Founding Fathers were intimately familiar with the amount of power the Catholic Church and especially the Church of England had in the politics of foreign nations, and did not wish for the US to fall under the sway of foreign religion. Preventing churches from making religious proclamations exhorting one candidate or political philosophy over another mitigates this risk.

Second and just as importantly, it prevents government takeover of religion. "Hey bishop, do you want a whole bunch of taxpayer funds I've got kicking around? Go tell your parishioners to vote for me and I'll give you lots of sweetheart land and funding deals when I get elected." Let that scenario roll around in your brain and tell me with a straight face it's a good idea for a church to get involved in politics.

To make it clear, a condition of accepting tax-exempt status meant they agreed to abide by certain rules as a condition for having that status. In breaking those rules, it is totally within the rights of the government to declare them in breach of that contract and pull their tax-exempt status. The church is like a salaried employee that stays home and smokes pot instead of showing up to work, then complains that you're harshing their mellow when you fire him.

TheHermit wrote:

Nothing is at all preventing them from voicing their beliefs. However, you cannot take government money (which is what the tax-exempt status amounts to) and then make political statements. This is to prevent two things: first, it is to prevent religious takeover of government. The Founding Fathers were intimately familiar with the amount of power the Catholic Church and especially the Church of England had in the politics of foreign nations, and did not wish for the US to fall under the sway of foreign religion. Preventing churches from making religious proclamations exhorting one candidate or political philosophy over another mitigates this risk.

Second and just as importantly, it prevents government takeover of religion. "Hey bishop, do you want a whole bunch of taxpayer funds I've got kicking around? Go tell your parishioners to vote for me and I'll give you lots of sweetheart land and funding deals when I get elected." Let that scenario roll around in your brain and tell me with a straight face it's a good idea for a church to get involved in politics.

To make it clear, a condition of accepting tax-exempt status meant they agreed to abide by certain rules as a condition for having that status. In breaking those rules, it is totally within the rights of the government to declare them in breach of that contract and pull their tax-exempt status. The church is like a salaried employee that stays home and smokes pot instead of showing up to work, then complains that you're harshing their mellow when you fire him.

There are some statements in there that are almost correct.

Well, the IRS did threaten to yank the tax-exempt status of an Episcopal Church in Pasadena where a priest delivered a blistering anti-war sermon that was critical of President Bush the Sunday before the 2004 Election. Don't think it happened because the Church got a white-shoe firm out of D.C. to defend them.

And I know there was a lot of rumbling about it during that election because some of the more conservative Catholic churches talked of withholding communion to any politician who is pro-choice.

Why is the church still tax-exempt? What, exactly, do they do to merit it? I know some of them are great for charity and so on, but those are the minority.

For the most part, to get this tax-exempt status, they do sweet fuck all.

God also says that I should stop sniffing the markers I use to write my sermons with.

My dad felt that candidates for political offices were meant to be chosen by the American people, and that God had nothing to do with it, therefore it was wrong to endorse a candidate from the pulpit; less because of the tax exempt status, and more because, especially in the smaller churches he preached in, the parishoners tended to take anything the pastor said as coming directly from God. IIRC, he wouldn't even tell people who he, himself, was voting for before elections.

*snicker* Instead of endorsing him, the pastor should have reminded Howie about Matthew, 22: 19-21

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oracle wrote:

*snicker* Instead of endorsing him, the pastor should have reminded Howie about Matthew, 22: 19-21

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The irony of it all makes me very happy.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Well, the IRS did threaten to yank the tax-exempt status of an Episcopal Church in Pasadena where a priest delivered a blistering anti-war sermon that was critical of President Bush the Sunday before the 2004 Election. Don't think it happened because the Church got a white-shoe firm out of D.C. to defend them.

As I recall (it's a relatively local church, so it was big news around here), it wasn't a blistering sermon against Bush but a sermon against his waging of war. It definitely wasn't neutral, but it wasn't telling people explicitly how to vote, as was the case with another local evangelical church that freely and openly handed out "how to vote" pamphlets after its services. All Saints got landed on hard, but this other church? Never even touched. The case was closed; the IRS determined that it was a violation, hasn't decided (as of 2007) whether or not to demand back taxes, but isn't going to revoke tax-exempt status. The church wants clarification on the laws and assurances that the IRS wasn't acting under White House direction--a little paranoid, but not totally outside the realm of possibility, considering the evangelical church (very, very Republican and pro-Bush) wasn't investigated.

I'm not saying All Saints was in the right here--they absolutely pushed the limits of what they're really supposed to do. I am saying that I personally would like to see the investigations done consistently or not at all--spotty enforcement just pisses some people off and makes others think they're untouchable.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Why is the church still tax-exempt? What, exactly, do they do to merit it? I know some of them are great for charity and so on, but those are the minority.

For the most part, to get this tax-exempt status, they do sweet fuck all.

Church service is a charity because you do not have to pay to attend.

I mean, fucking duh Harley.