12 shot dead at biggest US military base in the world

rachel wrote:

Not according to the NYT article.

I'm taking that article with a grain of salt, because the quote is literally "he said that his cousin said that his lawyer said." There's plenty of room for confusion in that chain. As far as I know of there is no barrier to retiring once you have 20 years time in service, and I know of at least one senior NCO who just retired when he decided he didn't want to get deployed for the Nth time as a cop. Unless he was recently promoted and had been trying to put in two years time in grade (in other words, two years since he put on the rank of major) for his retirement benefits to reflect that, and it doesn't sound like he was, there shouldn't have been anything holding him back.

In any case, my main point stands: It doesn't add up. Even if he was commissioned with a 6-year extension commitment on contract way back in 2003, he would've known what was up. There is really no way he could've been where he was in his career without knowing what the US military was up to and deciding that he was OK with being a part of it.

rachel wrote:

Freezer wrote:

Which, from what I know of military tenure, would be absolute bullshit. There may have been pressure for him to stay on, but as a commissioned officer, the circumstances under which he would not be allowed to say "I quit" and resign his commission are few (And I'm sure Penguin and our other military types will correct me if I'm wrong.)

What was all that "Stop-loss policy" stuff the Bush Administration was using to keep unwilling personnel in the services against their wishes, then?

"Stop-loss" is mainly a problem for the junior enlisted, since they're the ones you're trying to get to stick around. It's not a problem for officers, who typically start out on longer commitments, and senior enlisted, who don't do much grunt work.

When you enlist, the term is typically 8 years, with X number of those years being in active duty (or guard or reserve), and the remainder being in the "inactive reserve." In other words, for all intents and purposes you're a civilian, but if Russia nukes D.C., try and squeeze back into your uniform.

IIRC, stop-loss basically holds you in the active portion of your enlistment for a longer period of time (usually with some pay bonuses). It doesn't extend the inactive portion, so it counts towards your total commitment. I could be wrong on this, though.

Penguin wrote:

rachel wrote:

Not according to the NYT article.

I'm taking that article with a grain of salt, because the quote is literally "he said that his cousin said that his lawyer said." There's plenty of room for confusion in that chain. As far as I know of there is no barrier to retiring once you have 20 years time in service, and I know of at least one senior NCO who just retired when he decided he didn't want to get deployed for the Nth time as a cop. Unless he was recently promoted and had been trying to put in two years time in grade (in other words, two years since he put on the rank of major) for his retirement benefits to reflect that, and it doesn't sound like he was, there shouldn't have been anything holding him back.

In any case, my main point stands: It doesn't add up. Even if he was commissioned with a 6-year extension commitment on contract way back in 2003, he would've known what was up. There is really no way he could've been where he was in his career without knowing what the US military was up to and deciding that he was OK with being a part of it.

He may have had some kind of mental break a while ago and just not been thinking straight ever since then. He was a mental health expert; who'd there be to tell him that he was the crazy one?

Edited to add: And would anybody else with the authority to be able to tell his superiors that he'd gone nuts and should be stuffed into a rubber room tout de suite?

rachel wrote:

Freezer wrote:

Which, from what I know of military tenure, would be absolute bullshit. There may have been pressure for him to stay on, but as a commissioned officer, the circumstances under which he would not be allowed to say "I quit" and resign his commission are few (And I'm sure Penguin and our other military types will correct me if I'm wrong.)

What was all that "Stop-loss policy" stuff the Bush Administration was using to keep unwilling personnel in the services against their wishes, then?

It was absolute bullshit, just like everything else the Bush Administration spouted about the war being over in a few months.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

I have a nasty feeling this is going to fire up even more of the ongoing predjudice against Muslims in America.

Hey Harley let me tell you about this dude I know who was beaten up in England for being a "Paki" just because he had a funny name and was from another country and the dumb ignorant fucks didn't know he was from America-

Oh wait no AMERICA IS A SHITHOLE AND THEY DESERVE TO BE SHOT

Do you even think about what you post? At all?

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

It was absolute bullshit, just like everything else the Bush Administration spouted about the war being over in a few months.

...apparently not.

Harley, we've talked about this whole "commenting on subjects you know nothing about" thing before.

rachel wrote:

He may have had some kind of mental break a while ago and just not been thinking straight ever since then. He was a mental health expert; who'd there be to tell him that he was the crazy one?

Right. Everyone in the mental health profession works on their own and has no peer consultations or contacts. It's a profession populated entirely by lone wolves. Especially, in the military. Those guys never talk to anybody, ever. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Honestly, you two, just stop. The man killed people. A lot of people. Stop trying to make that okay, because all this victim-blaming business is really making you look even stupider than you are.

KelinciHutan wrote:

Stop trying to make that okay, because all this victim-blaming business is really making you look even stupider than you are.

You think I'm trying to make it OK? Right, because trying to get a grip on the cause of a crime is "trying to make it OK." Moron.

Aaaand once again Knorg manages to get wank going. He's a natural.

You know, even if he was forced on his job and harrassed or whatever... Something majorly disconnected there. Something serious. And it may not reconnect again for how many people he berserked.

I don't know, more information needed.
In any case, the guy is not a victim enough to excuse the deaths of that many other people.

grmblfjx wrote:

Aaaand once again Knorg manages to get wank going. He's a natural.

Nah, I've said it a billion times before... Harley is a troll god. She could get the Dalai Lama screaming for blood.

Knorg wrote:

grmblfjx wrote:

Aaaand once again Knorg manages to get wank going. He's a natural.

Nah, I've said it a billion times before... Harley is a troll god. She could get the Dalai Lama screaming for blood.

Troll Goddess. [/benefit of the doubt]

Well, that'll be the ultimate revelation, won't it? HARLEY IS SITE GURU!

Knorg wrote:

Well, that'll be the ultimate revelation, won't it? HARLEY IS SITE GURU!

and Lolita and Waffles and Baron What'shisface and George Bush and Septiroth and Optimus Prime

Baron Vladimir Harkonnen?

As I unfortunately expected, some people have decided that since this guy is a Muslim, it means that all Muslims want to shoot up military bases. One of the students told me today that he couldn't wait to graduate from high school and join the military so he could assassinate Muslims.

Since this kid has talked to me about wanting to be an assassin before, I decided to take him seriously and referred him to the counselor.

Why do you need to join the military to kill Muslims? Just get a gun, some silver bullets, a little bit of holy water, go to your local Mosque and go nuts.

Harley, a troll god? Since when we're supposed to actually care about what Harley says?

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:

Why do you need to join the military to kill Muslims? Just get a gun, some silver bullets, a little bit of holy water, go to your local Mosque and go nuts.

I think you're confusing them with die Juden.

Exodia's Right Leg wrote:

Harley, a troll god? Since when we're supposed to actually care about what Harley says?

We're not. Trolls don't care if you agree or disagree. They just want you to respond. Harley has a near-magical ability to make people (many of whom have seen this too many time to not know better *raises hand*) react to the stupid things she says.

Actually, Freezer, the far more terrifying prospect is that Exodia(etc) here has previously cared deeply about what all the trolls s/he met said.

Penguin wrote:

That fucker's been in for over 20 years. He could just fucking retire with full benefits and be done with it.

I don't know where you got your information; He hadn't been in 20 years after all:

Quote :

Military records show Hasan received his appointment to the Army as a first lieutenant in June 1997 after graduating from Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, with a degree in biochemistry. Six years later, he graduated from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences' F. Edward Hebert School Of Medicine in Bethesda, Maryland, and was first an intern, then a resident and finally a fellow at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

Wow, he went to Virginia Tech. What are the odds? So anyway, he'd only been in since '97 and part of that time he was going to medical school. In this case, did he serve really long enough to be allowed to retire with full benefits? He clearly hadn't in 2001, which was when he started wanting to get out.

Oh, and I just found this about the hero who brought him down. Well done, Officer Munley!

When I first heard what had happened, I wondered if he had in fact served and was suffering from severe PTSD. This was when I knew nothing about what had happened.

Now I just want to know why he chose to do this.

And Harley? Shut the fuck up about the things that go on in a country you obviously know nothing about. And the obvious glee you have in talking about this like it makes my whole damn country a bunch of rascist skinheads is disgusting. People died. Show some respect you fucking idiot.

Knorg wrote:

Actually, Freezer, the far more terrifying prospect is that Exodia(etc) here has previously cared deeply about what all the trolls s/he met said.

I got better. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Rachel he joined the Army right after highschool as an enlisted member. He became a commissioned officer in June of '97. Most people graduate highschool between 17 or 18 so given his age of 39. Yeah, he could have retired because he's been in service for 20 years if not close to it.