Drug war claims another dog.

Quote :

Investigators believed Whitworth was in possession of a large amount of
marijuana and was considered a distributor. The raid ended with a
misdemeanor amount of marijuana discovered and two of Whitworth’s dogs
shot.

That pretty much sums it up. They're now going on hearsay and taking no prisoners.

This is, of course, an entirely isolated incident, and there certainly isn't a map of these things, either. Such losses are both understandable and necessary, though, for this is a war we're fighting: a war on drugs. You can't have wars without death and fear and guns. Imagine, without this raid or others, how many more people would have consumed a substance at their own discretion, how many more would have sold the same to a consenting adult. Unspeakable, isn't it? I can hardly bear the thought.

thebonerules wrote:

This is, of course, an entirely isolated incident, and there certainly isn't a map of these things, either. Such losses are both understandable and necessary, though, for this is a war we're fighting: a war on drugs. You can't have wars without death and fear and guns. Imagine, without this raid or others, how many more people would have consumed a substance at their own discretion, how many more would have sold the same to a consenting adult. Unspeakable, isn't it? I can hardly bear the thought.

Aren't cops supposed to be, like, the quintessential dog person?

Grunge wrote:

That pretty much sums it up. They're now going on hearsay and taking no prisoners.

What the FUCK. And here I thought you had to have a reasonable justification for having a warrant to search someone's house. What a fucking Orwellian nightmare.

This sort of shit should be illegal. Not the damn mary-jane, the cops busting down a citizen's door for growing some damn plants.

This is dispicable. I hope marijuana is legalized soon so that shit like this doesn't happen - ever again.

Why the hell is there a video of this?

Dr. Professor Science wrote:

Why the hell is there a video of this?

I suppose they're required to film raids now to prevent police abuse. I guess after the first couple of million times they shot people's dogs, someone figured there was a need for more oversight.

I've got a friend who works in a K-9 Unit down in Virginia. I got curious as to whether this was standard practice with dogs you don't know. Her answer was that it was completely out of line. The worst she's had to do was taze a dog, but normally she tranquilizes them. Whenever they've had to do a drug raid, she brings a tranq gun and shoots any dogs.

So...yeah. At least all cops aren't morons.

Malganis wrote:

This is dispicable. I hope marijuana is legalized soon so that shit like this doesn't happen - ever again.

This has fuck-all to do with the ganja. The same approach would have been if the guy was under suspicion of being an Al Qaeda affiliate.
These pigs were lucky that at least they found a couple butts in the garbage bin, so they can justify the raid.
Imagine they had found nothing at all...

We've had enough threads in this section about people ruining their lives and their neighbours' through pot that personally, I hope the tobacco mosaic virus mutates and wipes off the damned thing.
I made a pull from a blunt that was being passed around at a party and spent the rest of the evening in a psychotic state. 'Light drug', my ass.
I may soon have to change my nick to The Unpopular

The Unoriginal wrote:

I made a pull from a blunt that was being passed around at a party and spent the rest of the evening in a psychotic state. 'Light drug', my ass.

MY EXPERIENCE IS THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF POT USE

Yeah. Did you bother asking if said pot was laced with anything else, rather than just going "AHJHDKJSH POT IS THE DEVIL"?

The Unoriginal wrote:

I made a pull from a blunt that was being passed around at a party and spent the rest of the evening in a psychotic state. 'Light drug', my ass.
I may soon have to change my nick to The Unpopular

I HAD ONE PULL FROM ONE BLUNT FROM A PERSON I DIDN'T KNOW WITH POT THAT I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WITHIN IT THEREFORE IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS ALL OTHER POT IN THE UNIVERSE.
Seriously whatever the fuck was in there it wasn't just pot, Unoriginal. I've smoked twice and thus far felt nothing. No ordinary pot leaves you in a psychotic state. Pot leaves you in a paranoid state at worst, and usually in a relaxed and/or confused state.

Quote :

We've had enough threads in this section about
people ruining their lives and their neighbours' through pot that
personally, I hope the tobacco mosaic virus mutates and wipes off the
damned thing.

We've had enough threads in this section about people ruining their lives and their neighbors' through WoW addiction that personally, I hope that a virus will wipe every copy from the planet.
We've had enough threads in this section about people ruining their lives and their neighbors' through screwed up backyard BBQs that personally, I hope that all charcoal and propane will explode in the factories.
We've had enough threads in this section about people ruining their lives and their neighbors through sex that personally, I hope the rhinovirus mutates and makes everyone's naughty bits fall off.
Unoriginal, it isn't the pot that ruins these people's lives. It's how they use it, as with, oh, ANYTHING ELSE. Pot isn't PCP, where it actually can leave you in a psychotic state. Pot isn't an inhalant, with a risk of death from every use. Pot isn't even tobacco, with a very high risk of cancer. All it does is make people feel good and impair judgement a bit, much like alcohol. These things do not cause you to ruin your life - it is how often you use them and for what purpose. If you become a total pothead and sit in a hotboxed house all day, then yes, your life will be ruined. The same goes for gaming, alcohol, television, and food. Problems "caused" by pot aren't really caused by pot, they are caused through a lack of personal responsibility.

Hell, pot isn't even as addictive as tobacco, and carries a far lesser chance of cancers of the mouth, throat, and lungs.

I knew I was going to open a can of worms with this one...

1) I have known for years the person who offered the joint. Everyone else was acting exactly how you'd expect with ganja so I don't think it was laced or a bad batch. I had always been an abolitionist and entered the deal with an open mind.
Perhaps 'psychotic' was an exaggeration but I was in a funk, started mulling over an argument I'd had with a person several years ago and forgotten. I got so worked up I'd have beaten the shit out of that person if she had been there. And I couldn't get off that train of thoughts. Doesn't sound to me a mood-altering as much as a personality-altering stuff - that wasn't me.

Electron Blue wrote:

All it does is make people
feel good and impair judgement a bit, much like alcohol.
...
Problems "caused" by pot aren't
really caused by pot, they are caused through a lack of personal
responsibility.

2) I think we agree on the premises, but we disagree on the conclusions. I agree with the sentences I quoted, but can't the 'lack of personal responsability' be a consequence of the pot? You're obviously talking about a chronical issue (the pothead) while I have more in mind the acute issue (my own aggressive mood). And you just said it impairs judgement...

People who ruin their lives through WoW, sex or BBQs are a bad comparison because they act stupid from the start when they are 'in their right mind'. Your decision-making ability is not impaired after you've fired up the charcoals.
The problem with the booze (or drugs) is that even if you are sensible and smart, plan in advance and decide to get pissed in the quiet and safe environment of your own house, there's no saying what thoughts will cross your mind once you're soaked up enough. Being in (selected) company mitigates the risks, but there's always peer pressure, bystander effect and 'I've had it with you you fucking drunkard'.

Malganis wrote:

Grunge wrote:

That pretty much sums it up. They're now going on hearsay and taking no prisoners.

What the FUCK. And here I thought you had to have a reasonable justification for having a warrant to search someone's house. What a fucking Orwellian nightmare.

It sounds like they got a bad tip, and then went to a judge and claimed that the bad tip = probable cause for the warrant because they wanted to move before the "large stash" got distributed.

Shooting the dogs, especially given the fact that there were small children in the house, seems like overdoing it. One of the dogs was secured in a cage, for cryin' out loud! It wasn't an imminent threat to the officers.

But probably what will happen is that the review board will call it a "good shoot" and pay a settlement to the family without admitting liability. (Cynical, me? You kidders.)

The Unoriginal wrote:

Perhaps 'psychotic' was an exaggeration but I was in a funk, started mulling over an argument I'd had with a person several years ago and forgotten. I got so worked up I'd have beaten the shit out of that person if she had been there.

Dude, I can get that way without pot or booze or any of that shit. That's why I never get drunk when I do have some alcohol.

Quote :

And I couldn't get off that train of thoughts. Doesn't sound to me a mood-altering as much as a personality-altering stuff - that wasn't me.

I don't know you personally... but maybe that WAS a side of your personality that until that moment had been hidden. Maybe it amplified something that was already there. Maybe it just fucked with your brain chemistry and brought out something that you didn't know was there. At any rate you know pot has that effect on you, so smoking it is an unwise idea... for you. That does not necessarily mean that everyone will have that reaction.

I look at my own, non-pot-fueled periods of darkness and seething rage as a side of me. Not an alteration or change in my personality, not a different personality, just a part of me... a dark part that I don't think I'd like to show anyone else, but it's there all the same.

Quote :

2) I think we agree on the premises, but we disagree on the conclusions. I agree with the sentences I quoted, but can't the 'lack of personal responsability' be a consequence of the pot? You're obviously talking about a chronical issue (the pothead) while I have more in mind the acute issue (my own aggressive mood). And you just said it impairs judgement...

People who drink alcohol can become aggressive, morose, and addicted as well; is that a reason to bring back Prohibition because of that fact, that it can and does harm some people greatly?

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People who ruin their lives through WoW, sex or BBQs are a bad comparison because they act stupid from the start when they are 'in their right mind'.

Wrong. All three of these things can be addictive.

Quote :

The problem with the booze (or drugs) is that even if you are sensible and smart, plan in advance and decide to get pissed in the quiet and safe environment of your own house, there's no saying what thoughts will cross your mind once you're soaked up enough. Being in (selected) company mitigates the risks, but there's always peer pressure, bystander effect and 'I've had it with you you fucking drunkard'.

True, but then, that's a choice that you make before you have the pot or the drink, or the lots of drinks. Mitigate your risks, but you are taking risks. If that appeals to you, do it and take the risk. If it doesn't, then don't.

The Unoriginal wrote:

I knew I was going to open a can of worms with this one...

1) I have known for years the person who offered the joint. Everyone else was acting exactly how you'd expect with ganja so I don't think it was laced or a bad batch. I had always been an abolitionist and entered the deal with an open mind.
Perhaps 'psychotic' was an exaggeration but I was in a funk, started mulling over an argument I'd had with a person several years ago and forgotten. I got so worked up I'd have beaten the shit out of that person if she had been there. And I couldn't get off that train of thoughts. Doesn't sound to me a mood-altering as much as a personality-altering stuff - that wasn't me.

Electron Blue wrote:

All it does is make people
feel good and impair judgement a bit, much like alcohol.
...
Problems "caused" by pot aren't
really caused by pot, they are caused through a lack of personal
responsibility.

2) I think we agree on the premises, but we disagree on the conclusions. I agree with the sentences I quoted, but can't the 'lack of personal responsability' be a consequence of the pot? You're obviously talking about a chronical issue (the pothead) while I have more in mind the acute issue (my own aggressive mood). And you just said it impairs judgement...

People who ruin their lives through WoW, sex or BBQs are a bad comparison because they act stupid from the start when they are 'in their right mind'. Your decision-making ability is not impaired after you've fired up the charcoals.
The problem with the booze (or drugs) is that even if you are sensible and smart, plan in advance and decide to get pissed in the quiet and safe environment of your own house, there's no saying what thoughts will cross your mind once you're soaked up enough. Being in (selected) company mitigates the risks, but there's always peer pressure, bystander effect and 'I've had it with you you fucking drunkard'.

Except those who ruin their life with pot are making repeated mistakes while they are high, and keep getting high. You don't ruin your life with pot by getting high and making mistakes once. It's when you fail to learn from the mistakes you made before you got high that led to those you made while high. When you fail to take precautions - again the lack of personal responsibility - you will ruin your life. Yes, I know that it isn't exactly the same as WoW or sex, but you are still making preventable mistakes with a largely safe substance. It's very, very unlikely that the acute issue, as you said, will ruin your life -it might make it unpleasant, you might fuck up - but with pot, the only way it'll permanently affect your life is if you keep repeating the same mistakes. Getting caught, using the wrong type, being in the wrong company, are all mistakes that make life unpleasant, but it's only through repetition that it becomes a serious, life-ruining issue.

The Unoriginal wrote:

Perhaps 'psychotic' was an exaggeration but I was in a funk, started mulling over an argument I'd had with a person several years ago and forgotten. I got so worked up I'd have beaten the shit out of that person if she had been there. And I couldn't get off that train of thoughts. Doesn't sound to me a mood-altering as much as a personality-altering stuff - that wasn't me.

An exaggeration? Really? That's an understatement like saying a whale is a little big.

Psychotic: of, relating to, marked by, or affected with psychosis

Psychosis: fundamental derangement of the mind (as in schizophrenia) characterized
by defective or lost contact with reality especially as evidenced by
delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and behavior

At most, you had the enhanced recollection of memories, with a good dose of the paranoia and anxiety that happens to SOME people.

Actually, I've been sent into a psychotic state from pot and it persisted into the day after. It was really really bad. It can happen and it does happen. The same thing happens to my mom except worse. Although, honestly, it's because I have panic disorder. I've had some terrible, terrible times on pot. I've also had some good times. But here's the thing: I don't let my own experiences colour my opinion of anyone else's.

And yes I'm sure it was psychosis. This was just one time, though.

Want a description? I decided that time no longer existed and that I was just a noise and the noise was evil and painful. Good fucking times. Apparently I sat there and whimpered and twitched for four hours.

No it wasn't laced, I knew the person who grew it. She was a good friend.

So yeah it is possible.

Dr. Professor Science wrote:

Actually, I've been sent into a psychotic state from pot and it persisted into the day after. It was really really bad. It can happen and it does happen. The same thing happens to my mom except worse. Although, honestly, it's because I have panic disorder. I've had some terrible, terrible times on pot. I've also had some good times. But here's the thing: I don't let my own experiences colour my opinion of anyone else's.

And yes I'm sure it was psychosis. This was just one time, though.

Want a description? I decided that time no longer existed and that I was just a noise and the noise was evil and painful. Good fucking times. Apparently I sat there and whimpered and twitched for four hours.

No it wasn't laced, I knew the person who grew it. She was a good friend.

So yeah it is possible.

Definitely so... a family member of mine used to smoke pot and he got paranoid from it, so he stopped. And this was back in the 70s or so when the stuff wasn't as strong as it is now.

I don't think what happened to him was anything as bad as what happened to you, though... which could have been because of the relative potency of the drug, or just individual experience. Sorry, Doc

The Unoriginal wrote:

I knew I was going to open a can of worms with this one...

Well as you have, a relative of mine suffered a panic attack from cannabis, hit her head and had to be taken to hospital with concussion. That was caused by eating it rather than smoking it (unless I was misinformed) and I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a more dangerous way of ingesting it or not.

Fairlight wrote:

The Unoriginal wrote:

I knew I was going to open a can of worms with this one...

Well as you have, a relative of mine suffered a panic attack from cannabis, hit her head and had to be taken to hospital with concussion. That was caused by eating it rather than smoking it (unless I was misinformed) and I honestly don't know whether that's supposed to be a more dangerous way of ingesting it or not.

Supposedly, if you eat it its more concentrated. Supposedly, the strongest way I've heard to get all the THC is to make pot butter- odorless, tasteless, versatile, and (supposedly) its just pure THC in with the butter. Epic shit. But most people just make pot brownies or something.