Finally.....

Lady Anne wrote:

Whether bin Laden's death is a turning point or not, I must say I think the world is a better place with him not in it.

Hear hear.

I'm embarrassed, but I cried when I saw it.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

It's been on the news all day. It's all they can talk about and it's really getting on my nerves, with America suddenly acting like it's some sort of movie action hero for winning a shootout and killing an old man.

Gee, I wonder why you're butthurt.

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Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

It's been on the news all day. It's all they can talk about and it's really getting on my nerves, with America suddenly acting like it's some sort of movie action hero for winning a shootout and killing an old man.

...

We finally ended a ten year manhunt for the head of a terrorist organization that killed thousands of civilians in cold blood.

Forgive us, we're a little excited.

I hate to say it, but... I agree with Harley. I actually kind of do.


I mean, seriously, it's like WHOO WE SUCCESSFULLY ASSASSINATED A RETIRED GENERAL IN HIS HOME


How is that at all helpful?

I suppose that ten years of the American media making this one man out to be some kind of demon is hard to ignore, but seriously. He was an old man. On Sky News they even said that he was completely retired and wasn't believed to have been in contact with the organisation for years. I honestly don't understand why this is supposed to be such a good thing.


Furthermore, it does sound terrible and I apologise for the generalisation but I am finding most Americans' reactions to this rather alarming. There's this creepy sort of kneejerk FUCK YEAH WE FINALLY KILLED SATAN thing going on that I really don't like - surely none of you really believe all of that? He was one man, surely you can see the way that he was made into a scapegoat?

So well done, you successfully assassinated an old man who arguably had no remaining influence on any military operation. Now watch as all terrorism stops immediately and the world explodes into a paradise of puppies and rainbows and suddenly the deaths of thousands of civilians in a pointless war is justified








(Yes I know I'm being simplistic and if I'm wrong about some things then please do correct me, but seriously? Anyone?)

EDIT: Crap I didn't see the first page. Anyway, I agree completely with WD40. Also of note is that the only people who are questioning this so far are not American. Just sayin'.

Quote :

So well done, you successfully assassinated an old man who arguably had no remaining influence on any military operation. Now watch as all terrorism stops immediately and the world explodes into a paradise of puppies and rainbows and suddenly the deaths of thousands of civilians in a pointless war is justified

I don't think anyone is saying that all terrorism will stop immediately, or that killing Osama magically solves everything. But even if he's an old man now, he was still intimately involved with plots that killed thousands of people--and not just Americans, either. Al-Qaeda is friend to nobody. And even if he isn't involved with anything now, he's still a worldwide symbol of the organization, and putting him six feet under (with a team of American special forces guys, no less) is a big win. Bin Laden was a figurehead that routinely mocked and derided America, and seemed impossible to catch. Now he's not only been caught, he's been removed from the equation. He has ceased to be. He is an ex-Osama.

At the very least, his death with remove an influential figurehead from the equation, not to mention his funding for terrorism in the Middle-east. And if he was still involved in the organization at all, his death will leave a power vacuum, which means the various secondary honchos may start fighting each other. And if that happens? Popcorn time.

Seule wrote:

I hate to say it, but... I agree with Harley. I actually kind of do.


I mean, seriously, it's like WHOO WE SUCCESSFULLY ASSASSINATED A RETIRED GENERAL IN HIS HOME


How is that at all helpful?

I suppose that ten years of the American media making this one man out to be some kind of demon is hard to ignore, but seriously. He was an old man. On Sky News they even said that he was completely retired and wasn't believed to have been in contact with the organisation for years. I honestly don't understand why this is supposed to be such a good thing.


Furthermore, it does sound terrible and I apologise for the generalisation but I am finding most Americans' reactions to this rather alarming. There's this creepy sort of kneejerk FUCK YEAH WE FINALLY KILLED SATAN thing going on that I really don't like - surely none of you really believe all of that? He was one man, surely you can see the way that he was made into a scapegoat?

So well done, you successfully assassinated an old man who arguably had no remaining influence on any military operation. Now watch as all terrorism stops immediately and the world explodes into a paradise of puppies and rainbows and suddenly the deaths of thousands of civilians in a pointless war is justified








(Yes I know I'm being simplistic and if I'm wrong about some things then please do correct me, but seriously? Anyone?)

EDIT: Crap I didn't see the first page. Anyway, I agree completely with WD40. Also of note is that the only people who are questioning this so far are not American. Just sayin'.

I actually agree 100%, and I"m 'MERIIICAAAAN.
Woop-de-shit, we got revenge. Can we go home now?

^ Great!

But to sum up my argument in a way I just thought of and before people jump in with ARE YOU SAYING HE DIDN'T DESERVE TO DIE THEN WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM, what I am saying is basically that I don't see how assassinating this man, at this point, is useful. At all. At best it's pointless revenge and at worst it's the catalyst for more terrorist attacks. Either way, what's the point?

I think getting Osama is surely better than the alternative - a sickly old man with bad kidneys evading the most expensive manhunt mounted by the largest armed force in the world. Remember when the Mullah Omar escaped on a moped and the US of A were the butt of every joke?

The death of Osama shows that the US government has the resources and the determination to achieve its objectives even outside the time limits of one or two presidencies, and that those who want to attack American interests will eventually have to deal with the retaliation. The alternative, as I said, is much worse. The image of America in the days of Operation Iraqi Freedom was a short-sighted giant, punching everything within reach and unable to swat the bee which had stung him.

It made people such as Kim Jong Il get ideas.

I don't know about you, but I'm going to bake chocolate chip cookies and listen to my Garmarna CD.

I dunno, Unoriginal, I apologise if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but what it sounds like you're saying to me is that it's okay to assassinate a sickly old man without a trial if it puts other countries in their places and protects America's reputation, kind of like a gang leader shooting someone to show their toughness and in order to discourage others from dissenting

Human rights and basic common sense should never be put aside for a display of power.

Seule wrote:

I hate to say it, but... I agree with Harley. I actually kind of do.


I mean, seriously, it's like WHOO WE SUCCESSFULLY ASSASSINATED A RETIRED GENERAL IN HIS HOME


How is that at all helpful?

I suppose that ten years of the American media making this one man out to be some kind of demon is hard to ignore, but seriously. He was an old man. On Sky News they even said that he was completely retired and wasn't believed to have been in contact with the organisation for years. I honestly don't understand why this is supposed to be such a good thing.


Furthermore, it does sound terrible and I apologise for the generalisation but I am finding most Americans' reactions to this rather alarming. There's this creepy sort of kneejerk FUCK YEAH WE FINALLY KILLED SATAN thing going on that I really don't like - surely none of you really believe all of that? He was one man, surely you can see the way that he was made into a scapegoat?

So well done, you successfully assassinated an old man who arguably had no remaining influence on any military operation. Now watch as all terrorism stops immediately and the world explodes into a paradise of puppies and rainbows and suddenly the deaths of thousands of civilians in a pointless war is justified








(Yes I know I'm being simplistic and if I'm wrong about some things then please do correct me, but seriously? Anyone?)

EDIT: Crap I didn't see the first page. Anyway, I agree completely with WD40. Also of note is that the only people who are questioning this so far are not American. Just sayin'.

Agreed completely, and I'm also American.

From the title I have this weird mental image of The Rock dropping a People's Elbow on the guy.

I'm not sure I'm getting this. He arranged the murders of thousands of people. Civilians. No one thinks terrorism is magically going to go away, or that al-Qaeda is just going to disappear. Nothing is going to stop. We did manage to execute someone who committed a grievous crime though. That makes people happy.

This isn't...what exactly do you think we are? As a country? We're not a bunch of bullies kicking dogs. We killed a man who committed mass-murder. Yes, we're happy. Because he committed mass-murder and that upset us a trifle. Not because of arrogance, but because people died. That's not a small thing. That's not us scape-goating some innocent old man.

Are we not allowed to feel some kind of justice? He murdered people. Innocent people. Men, women, and children. Whatever our politicians blather on about freedoms, it makes average people happy that he's dead because he was a mass murderer.

I'm just not sure why people are acting like we have no right to be happy over this.

Obama said there was a firefight in his speech last night. It's not like they marched in and shot an unresisting person.

I don't care all that much, but I am pleased with the news.

Seule wrote:

I dunno, Unoriginal, I apologise if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here but what it sounds like you're saying to me is that it's okay to assassinate a sickly old man without a trial if it puts other countries in their places and protects America's reputation, kind of like a gang leader shooting someone to show their toughness and in order to discourage others from dissenting

Human rights and basic common sense should never be put aside for a display of power.

Umm, no. What I think, but did not say in my post, is that you should not give up searching for criminals because they're sickly and old. What I read on the news is that Osama "resisted arrest" and was shot dead. We can argue whether things really went this way, we can argue about the jurisdiction of US forces making an arrest in a foreign country, but technically I can see the blitz as an attempt to bring Osama to justice, not an assassination. That's what the Israeli do when they fire a missile against a house from an helicopter that's hovering a mile away. I can see Osama chosing to commit suicide by cop by pulling a Kalashnikov rather than being tried by a US court.

Minly, it's your "sickly old man" mantra that baffles me. Murder does not go into proscription.
Mafia boss Bernardo Provenzano was 72 when he finally was arrested after more than 40 years in hiding. In the meanwhile he had undergone surgery for a prostate tumor: do you think the police should have given up the hunt for this sickly old man?

Lapin wrote:

I'm not sure I'm getting this. He arranged the murders of thousands of people. Civilians. No one thinks terrorism is magically going to go away, or that al-Qaeda is just going to disappear. Nothing is going to stop. We did manage to execute someone who committed a grievous crime though. That makes people happy.

This isn't...what exactly do you think we are? As a country? We're not a bunch of bullies kicking dogs. We killed a man who committed mass-murder. Yes, we're happy. Because he committed mass-murder and that upset us a trifle. Not because of arrogance, but because people died. That's not a small thing. That's not us scape-goating some innocent old man.

Are we not allowed to feel some kind of justice? He murdered people. Innocent people. Men, women, and children. Whatever our politicians blather on about freedoms, it makes average people happy that he's dead because he was a mass murderer.

I'm just not sure why people are acting like we have no right to be happy over this.

Again, I am absolutely not saying that he didn't do bad things. I'm not saying that he wasn't a bad person. What I am saying is that a) killing him is a useless and possibly downright harmful gesture and b) it's unfair to just assassinate the guy. You can't say "everyone has a right to a fair trial, unless they're reaaaally mean. Things can't work like that. Revenge is not the same as justice.

The Unoriginal wrote:

Minly, it's your "sickly old man" mantra that baffles me. Murder does not go into proscription.
Mafia boss Bernardo Provenzano was 72 when he finally was arrested after more than 40 years in hiding. In the meanwhile he had undergone surgery for a prostate tumor: do you think the police should have given up the hunt for this sickly old man?

Again. I am not saying that they should have not looked for him. I am not saying that they should not have arrested him. I am saying that they should not have killed him and then celebrated his assassination in the way that they, and you, are doing. In my opinion. Sorry.

I'm not celebrating his assassination, which is not such IMHO for the reasons I explained. I'm merely glad that he was found, same as I was glad when Carlos the Jackal was arrested. Personally, I thought he had already peacefully died of kidney failure and his videos were pre-registered. Hopefully the relatives of his victims will get some closure, the US will be able to disengage from Sandland with their head held high, and the queue at Al Qaeda's recruitment office will get shortened by a few men. Hopefully.

You know what's unfair? That Osama killed thousands of people.

And the royal wedding is getting pushed to yesterday's news.

Miss Prince wrote:

there was a firefight

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Somehow this all feels rather anti-climatic to me...

I imagine it would have been impossible to capture him alive. The man was a symbol for terrorist ideology and made out to be the devil himself for over 10 years. It's possible that putting him in front of the justice system would never have worked. Someone was bound to do something that would kill him, possibly endangering other's lives in the process.

I really wonder what the reaction has been with the rest of al Qaeda and other organisations? This man would have inspired a lot of them. =/

Raine wrote:

I imagine it would have been impossible to capture him alive. The man was a symbol for terrorist ideology and made out to be the devil himself for over 10 years. It's possible that putting him in front of the justice system would never have worked. Someone was bound to do something that would kill him, possibly endangering other's lives in the process.

Considering he used his wife as a human shield "Throw down your weapon and come out with your hands up," probably was not going to work.

Seule wrote:

So well done, you successfully assassinated an old man who arguably had no remaining influence on any military operation. Now watch as all terrorism stops immediately and the world explodes into a paradise of puppies and rainbows and suddenly the deaths of thousands of civilians in a pointless war is justified

I'm American, and I think the Iraq War was completely pointless and should never have been engaged in. Hell, Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein hated each other. If the U.S. hadn't invaded Iraq and executed Saddam Hussein, maybe he could have been useful in the "War on Terror". Yes, Hussein was a vicious person who did a lot of horrible things. On the other hand, the U.S. has a long history of teaming up with vicious bastards.

As to the Afghanistan War, it was somewhat more justified, as the Taliban were providing shelter to al-Qaeda, but it went on entirely too long and cost far too many lives on both sides of the conflict. The invasion of Afghanistan also showed a remarkable lack of foresight from the American government--you don't invade Afghanistan. You just don't. It will not end well, as many conquerors have discovered over the past few millenia.

Spotts1701 wrote:

Raine wrote:

I imagine it would have been impossible to capture him alive. The man was a symbol for terrorist ideology and made out to be the devil himself for over 10 years. It's possible that putting him in front of the justice system would never have worked. Someone was bound to do something that would kill him, possibly endangering other's lives in the process.

Considering he used his wife as a human shield "Throw down your weapon and come out with your hands up," probably was not going to work.

his new 17 year old wife, number 4. They're a dime a dozen over there.