Caledonia Land Dispute

In the little town of Caledonia, Ontario, Canada, 10,000 Canadians are living a nightmare. Their town has been violently and forcefully occupied by a group of First Nations 'protestors' from the local Six Nations native band. These protestors are, in actuality, complete thugs who have instituted mob rule in Caledonia. They are supposedly 'protesting' a land development which encroaches upon reserve land. Land which, as far as I can tell, was sold by the band sometime in the 1840s. Whether you think they have legitimate reasons to protest or not, we can all agree to one thing:

This situation is fucking crazy.

With IDs protected by bandana covered faces, the night marurading warriors have been emboldened by a government that seems totally inadequate to deal with them, while the self-styled occupiers of Caledonia are waging a campaign of fear and terror. These occupiers have burned bridges, flipped cars, burned cars, attacked police officers, pulled down a hydro tower, burned a power station, attacked non-natives in the streets and in their homes, and patrol the streets in trucks armed with bats, clubs, machetes, rifles and whatever else they can get their hands on. Residents of Caledonia now require a native-issued 'passport' to enter or leave their own home. People are having their phone line cuts, and are having threats and insults hurled at them at all hours of the day by these supposedly peaceful protestors. Some people have even been driven out of their homes, so that the protestors can use their houses as bunkers. In short, 10,000 Canadian citizens and subjects of the Canadian Crown are being held hostage by a band of power-mad thugs.

And here's what pisses me off: NO ONE WILL DO SHIT.

And here's where it gets 'good': THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 2005!

For six bloody years now, the Six Nations occupiers have been blatantly breaking the Queen's peace on Canadian soil, and the Ontario Provincial Police and everyone else blatantly refuses to do anything! It is the longest single breaking of the law in Canadian history, and the Police, whose job it is to enforce the law and keep the peace, will not do anything to defend the beleagured residents of Caledonia from these thugs!

Here's the Wikipedia page:

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I'll let you fellows determine your own opinions. Personally? I think the Ontario Provincial Police should grow a pair and go in with the riot squad to quell this revolt. We need to send a message to the Six Nations and every other native band with a grudge: Violence will not frighten the Dominion of Canada. If you want to play hardball, we'll play harder! That's how it SHOULD be, but it isn't, for the sake of political correctness and all that garbage. For the sake of going easy on the 'poor' Natives, 10,000 Canadians have lost their rights to life, liberty and security of their persons.

I love this country, but sometimes it sickens me.

Could you perhaps link to a news report rather than a wiki that anyone can edit?

ps it's the immigrants' fault for not adapting to the existing culture.

The whites have it coming after everything. Those ten thousand Canadians are getting better than they deserve.

KGarrett, what the fuck.

KGarrett, I echo that: What the fuck?

Cyberwulf: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] You might find this enlightening. And this series of videos is also quite informative: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

KGarrett wrote:

The whites have it coming after everything. Those ten thousand Canadians are getting better than they deserve.

Troll is trolling. Badly, of course.

Braigwen wrote:

KGarrett wrote:

The whites have it coming after everything. Those ten thousand Canadians are getting better than they deserve.

Troll is trolling. Badly, of course.

Well, to be fair, how is this any different from the horrendous things whites did to take those lands in the first place? I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

All that aside, WTF, Canadian government? I never thought a country that considered itself civilized would ever abandon its citizens like that. This is some messed up shit.

Azzandra wrote:

Braigwen wrote:

KGarrett wrote:

The whites have it coming after everything. Those ten thousand Canadians are getting better than they deserve.

Troll is trolling. Badly, of course.

Well, to be fair, how is this any different from the horrendous things whites did to take those lands in the first place? I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

All that aside, WTF, Canadian government? I never thought a country that considered itself civilized would ever abandon its citizens like that. This is some messed up shit.

AWESOME! I can expect to be raped and pillaged because my ancestors raped and pillaged England for hundreds of years! SUPER AWESOME TIME!

Oh.

Wait.

I didn't do any of those things. My ancestors did. And you know what? They aren't me. I didn't sow anything there, you know, hundreds of years ago. I might be slightly embarrassed about it and want to do something to make up for it by MY CHOICE, but hey... I'm not responsible for it. What a fucking concept.

Guess I better get my checkbook out to write all those reparations checks to peeps over in England. Sorry my Viking ancestors were bitches, y'all.

I can't tell you how ridiculous that bolded statement was, though I tried through sarcasm there.

Jesus, that's STILL going on?? I'm from right near there (Brantford), and I remember hearing about it a few years back, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. I figured they got it sorted out. :/ Apparently not.

Maximilia wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Braigwen wrote:

KGarrett wrote:

The whites have it coming after everything. Those ten thousand Canadians are getting better than they deserve.

Troll is trolling. Badly, of course.

Well, to be fair, how is this any different from the horrendous things whites did to take those lands in the first place? I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right, I'm saying you reap what you sow.

All that aside, WTF, Canadian government? I never thought a country that considered itself civilized would ever abandon its citizens like that. This is some messed up shit.

AWESOME! I can expect to be raped and pillaged because my ancestors raped and pillaged England for hundreds of years! SUPER AWESOME TIME!

Oh.

Wait.

I didn't do any of those things. My ancestors did. And you know what? They aren't me. I didn't sow anything there, you know, hundreds of years ago. I might be slightly embarrassed about it and want to do something to make up for it by MY CHOICE, but hey... I'm not responsible for it. What a fucking concept.

Guess I better get my checkbook out to write all those reparations checks to peeps over in England. Sorry my Viking ancestors were bitches, y'all.

I can't tell you how ridiculous that bolded statement was, though I tried through sarcasm there.

Except the Vikings didn't forcibly take the land from the English and relocated them constantly to where they'd be "out of the way", then waged hundreds of years of cultural wars to erase their identity in order to "integrate" them into Viking society. They also didn't cause the English to be addicted to alcohol, didn't steal away their children, didn't sterilize English women without their consent, didn't commit a thousand other atrocities against them and, perhaps most importantly, the Vikings aren't still in England, acting like the English are extinct and that they are the rightful rulers of the land, all while marginalizing the English.

So your example kinda sucks.

I'm not saying that what the First Nations attackers are doing is fair or just. You're right in that those people shouldn't have to suffer for something their ancestors did. But let's not pretend that they weren't profitting from their ancestors' actions by occupying that land. The only lesson that could possibly be derived from this situation is: "Don't do shitty things that are going to come back and bite the next generations in the ass."

Azzandra wrote:

Except the Vikings didn't forcibly take the land from the English and relocated them constantly to where they'd be "out of the way", then waged hundreds of years of cultural wars to erase their identity in order to "integrate" them into Viking society. They also didn't cause the English to be addicted to alcohol, didn't steal away their children, didn't sterilize English women without their consent, didn't commit a thousand other atrocities against them and, perhaps most importantly, the Vikings aren't still in England, acting like the English are extinct and that they are the rightful rulers of the land, all while marginalizing the English.

So your example kinda sucks.

I'm not saying that what the First Nations attackers are doing is fair or just. You're right in that those people shouldn't have to suffer for something their ancestors did. But let's not pretend that they weren't profitting from their ancestors' actions by occupying that land. The only lesson that could possibly be derived from this situation is: "Don't do shitty things that are going to come back and bite the next generations in the ass."

Aren't you Romanian?

Penguin wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Except the Vikings didn't forcibly take the land from the English and relocated them constantly to where they'd be "out of the way", then waged hundreds of years of cultural wars to erase their identity in order to "integrate" them into Viking society. They also didn't cause the English to be addicted to alcohol, didn't steal away their children, didn't sterilize English women without their consent, didn't commit a thousand other atrocities against them and, perhaps most importantly, the Vikings aren't still in England, acting like the English are extinct and that they are the rightful rulers of the land, all while marginalizing the English.

So your example kinda sucks.

I'm not saying that what the First Nations attackers are doing is fair or just. You're right in that those people shouldn't have to suffer for something their ancestors did. But let's not pretend that they weren't profitting from their ancestors' actions by occupying that land. The only lesson that could possibly be derived from this situation is: "Don't do shitty things that are going to come back and bite the next generations in the ass."

Aren't you Romanian?

Yes. And being wedged between three major empires that only see your land as a juicy piece of real estate and the people a minor inconvenience does not make for a happy and peaceful history.

I would just like to point out at this juncture that the Canadian government did not gain First Nations lands by violence, but rather by signing treaties and making agreements with the tribes. Though, without a doubt, we did terrible things in other ways. Residential schools stand out.

However.

While we undoubtably dicked over the Natives in general, that does not justify criminal activity such as this. Why should the residents of Caledonia suffer for the sins of their forefathers?

Of course, the real assholes here are the OPP and the government for utterly refusing to deal with criminal activity.

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Except the Vikings didn't forcibly take the land from the English and relocated them constantly to where they'd be "out of the way", then waged hundreds of years of cultural wars to erase their identity in order to "integrate" them into Viking society. They also didn't cause the English to be addicted to alcohol, didn't steal away their children, didn't sterilize English women without their consent, didn't commit a thousand other atrocities against them and, perhaps most importantly, the Vikings aren't still in England, acting like the English are extinct and that they are the rightful rulers of the land, all while marginalizing the English.

So your example kinda sucks.

I'm not saying that what the First Nations attackers are doing is fair or just. You're right in that those people shouldn't have to suffer for something their ancestors did. But let's not pretend that they weren't profitting from their ancestors' actions by occupying that land. The only lesson that could possibly be derived from this situation is: "Don't do shitty things that are going to come back and bite the next generations in the ass."

Aren't you Romanian?

Yes. And being wedged between three major empires that only see your land as a juicy piece of real estate and the people a minor inconvenience does not make for a happy and peaceful history.

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

We all know this. Everyone is perfectly aware that the European settlers were nothing but tremendous dicks to the Native Americans. That doesn't excuse any violence the Natives ancestors employ against the European ancestors.

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

We all know this. Everyone is perfectly aware that the European settlers were nothing but tremendous dicks to the Native Americans. That doesn't excuse any violence the Natives ancestors employ against the European ancestors.

That's the thing, though, isn't it? It's not just that they were, it's that they still are. And I'm not saying that it excuses it, I'm saying that it explains it.

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

We all know this. Everyone is perfectly aware that the European settlers were nothing but tremendous dicks to the Native Americans. That doesn't excuse any violence the Natives ancestors employ against the European ancestors.

It excuses this and more. Blood can only be repaid with blood.

Garrett, your out-of-nowhere edginess is pretty dumb.

KGarrett wrote:

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

We all know this. Everyone is perfectly aware that the European settlers were nothing but tremendous dicks to the Native Americans. That doesn't excuse any violence the Natives ancestors employ against the European ancestors.

It excuses this and more. Blood can only be repaid with blood.

I agree. Let's just all go out and kill each other. Then there will be no more hatred, because there'll be no one left.

KGarrett wrote:

It excuses this and more. Blood can only be repaid with blood.

So. How's that plan to join the Irish army coming along?

Azzandra wrote:

Except the Vikings didn't forcibly take the land from the English and relocated them constantly to where they'd be "out of the way", then waged hundreds of years of cultural wars to erase their identity in order to "integrate" them into Viking society. They also didn't cause the English to be addicted to alcohol, didn't steal away their children, didn't sterilize English women without their consent, didn't commit a thousand other atrocities against them and, perhaps most importantly, the Vikings aren't still in England, acting like the English are extinct and that they are the rightful rulers of the land, all while marginalizing the English.

Actually, they did part of that. Ever hear of the Danelaw? That was the law(s) of the part of England that had been conquered by the Danish Vikings and was being ruled by their descendants. That's why English has words that mean the same thing, such as, for example, "hide" and "skin". One word comes from the Danish language of that time and the other comes from Anglo-Saxon.

Anyway, the English managed to expel the Danish invaders from their land.... only to be conquered and overrun by the Normans (French-speaking descendants of Vikings, no less), who then brutally imposed Norman language, customs, and laws upon the native Anglo-Saxon peoples, making them into serfs for (mostly) Norman landlords.

Eventually the English started to brutally oppress the French, Irish, and Scottish peoples.

Of course, we mustn't forget that, hundreds of years before the arrival of the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons had been the invaders of Britain, and they were the ones who had brutally murdered and oppressed the native Britons and taken away their lands and forcibly merged their culture with the Briton culture(s).

In other words, people are assholes. What exactly would you suggest to solve this problem over in Canada, that the non-Native Canadians just up and move and leave everything behind?

KGarrett wrote:

It excuses this and more. Blood can only be repaid with blood.

Dude, when you get to Ireland you're totally going to have to go and brutally slaughter some Englishmen for the centuries of murder and oppression their ancestors committed against your Irish ancestors.

KGarrett wrote:

Mr.Doobie wrote:

Azzandra wrote:

Penguin wrote:

So you're projecting your personal politics on a situation you're unfamiliar with. Gotcha.

Maybe I'm biased, true, but that doesn't change the fact that the situation in Caledonia didn't start in a vacuum.

We all know this. Everyone is perfectly aware that the European settlers were nothing but tremendous dicks to the Native Americans. That doesn't excuse any violence the Natives ancestors employ against the European ancestors.

It excuses this and more. Blood can only be repaid with blood.

An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind.