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 Twilight: The Death of Feminism

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mluckw

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:06 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
Eclipse is the book where the evil chick from the first two raises an army of vampires and the "good guys" have an actual battle with them, yes? Got to be an improvement on nonstop angsting and whining.

Yes. And you actually see some action (of the vampire fighting kind, not the sexy kind). Unfortunately, Bella still whines, mainly about getting old and turning into a vampire.

For those of you who have seen the movie, did they still include the scene where Edward takes the engine out of Bella's truck? If they did, I wonder what people who hadn't read the books thought of that scene.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:46 pm

mluckw wrote:
Yes. And you actually see some action (of the vampire fighting kind, not the sexy kind).

No, that's in Breaking Dawn...which chickens out on its big battle scene. Guess you can have one or the other, not both. :D
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:49 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
mluckw wrote:
Yes. And you actually see some action (of the vampire fighting kind, not the sexy kind).

No, that's in Breaking Dawn...which chickens out on its big battle scene. Guess you can have one or the other, not both. :D

I guess so. I wonder if that means they're not going to try and film a battle scene in Breaking Dawn, considering the fact that they added action scenes to both Twilight and New Moon. (To be fair, there was an action scene in the Twilight book, but you didn't get to read about it because Bella blacked out.)
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
mluckw wrote:
Yes. And you actually see some action (of the vampire fighting kind, not the sexy kind).

No, that's in Breaking Dawn...which chickens out on its big battle scene. Guess you can have one or the other, not both. :D

No, that's in this movie. In the books, maybe not, but those are far suckier than the movies, in my opinion.

All the focus on Jasper in this movie made me a happy Inky. I felt his southern accent was very well done. I felt his backstory was very interesting and I just felt Jason Rathbone did a great job with his bigger role in this movie. Oh, and the scene where Rosalie's coming to kill that guy in her wedding dress? Shit was so cash.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:29 pm

InkWeaver wrote:
All the focus on Jasper in this movie made me a happy Inky. I felt his southern accent was very well done. I felt his backstory was very interesting and I just felt Jason Rathbone did a great job with his bigger role in this movie. Oh, and the scene where Rosalie's coming to kill that guy in her wedding dress? Shit was so cash.
Oh yeah, I remember Jasper's background story was pretty interesting. The thing the bothers me about Rosalie's story was that her family was well off, her dad was a banker, and it was set during the Great Depression.

mluckw wrote:
For those of you who have seen the movie, did they still include the scene where Edward takes the engine out of Bella's truck? If they did, I wonder what people who hadn't read the books thought of that scene.
I'm actually curious about this as well. I remember it was for her "own protection" or some bullshit like that because she wanted to see Jacob.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:42 pm

Yeah, they did that scene. And she was pissed. She also punches Jacob in the face at one point.

I don't remember what the book explanation of Rosalie's backstory was, but in this movie she's dating this wealthy bachelor, and he rapes her/beats her to death one night. They leave her broken in the gutter, and when she's almost dead, Carlisle comes and turns her.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:50 pm

InkWeaver wrote:
Yeah, they did that scene. And she was pissed. She also punches Jacob in the face at one point.
Yeah, and then you have Twihards saying he isn't controlling at all. Doesn't she break her hand or something from punching him? I do remember seeing a clip (I don't know which movie it was from) where she punches ones of the shifters Werewolves, and he gets super pissed.

InkWeaver wrote:
I don't remember what the book explanation of Rosalie's backstory was, but in this movie she's dating this wealthy bachelor, and he rapes her/beats her to death one night. They leave her broken in the gutter, and when she's almost dead, Carlisle comes and turns her.
Yeah, but her family history was her dad being a wealthy banker during the Great Depression. I'm sure the scene was awesome when she got her revenge, while wearing her blood splattered wedding dress.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:33 am

theweirdkind wrote:
InkWeaver wrote:
Yeah, they did that scene. And she was pissed. She also punches Jacob in the face at one point.
Yeah, and then you have Twihards saying he isn't controlling at all. Doesn't she break her hand or something from punching him? I do remember seeing a clip (I don't know which movie it was from) where she punches ones of the shifters Werewolves, and he gets super pissed.

In New Moon, she punches one of the wolves (Paul, I think) in anger. Of course, it doesn't work and he flips out and tries to attack her. Jacob comes to her rescue and he and Paul go into the woods to hump fight. In a little amusing moment, Embry and Jared start taking bets over who will win and if Bella will throw up in the truck. I kind of loved them for not immediately worshipping Bella.

In Eclipse, she punches Jacob because he forces a kiss on her. She breaks her hand in the process. Then, when she gets home, her father, her cop father laughs with Jacob about what happened, like it's so funny that this guy just sexually assaulted his daughter. I threw my book down after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:31 pm

I...I just read this on someone's recommendation. And it is awesome.

I have not read the books or seen the movies, so I don't know how much of the dialogue or events were invented or just perverted, but evil!Bella delights me.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:21 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:03 am

^ Could it be true? Could they finally have made a funny "Not Another Movie" movie?!
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:19 am

I'm just going to leave this here...

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:00 am

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:28 am

Raine, don't get your hopes up. It's Friedberg and Seltzer (the two who made the ones that gave the others an even worse name).
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:03 am

Drabbler wrote:
Raine, don't get your hopes up. It's Friedberg and Seltzer (the two who made the ones that gave the others an even worse name).

You're probably right, but it doesn't change the fact that I laughed harder at the preview than I had at any of their other movies. Ever.

Maybe it says more about being sick of Twilight, granted, but I still laughed.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:47 am

WD40 wrote:
Hahahahaha, Shovel.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:38 pm

theweirdkind wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here...
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:54 pm

Penguin wrote:
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Movie Bob kicks Twilight ass.

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:51 pm

Trioculus wrote:
You're probably right, but it doesn't change the fact that I laughed harder at the preview than I had at any of their other movies. Ever.
"That was the most I ever laughed at one of their trailers. I almost chuckled twice!"
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:20 pm

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Quote :
Bella's passivity, the oppressiveness of her boyfriends (presented as protectiveness), the fetishisation of female victimhood and the unstinting justification of the guys' abusiveness have spurred a strong feminist backlash against the books – a backlash which I fully support.

Good readin'.

Article references this:

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Quote :
Over on Jezebel.com, in a spoiler-laden piece titled "What to Expect When You're Expecting a Vampire," they jump all over the book for having a "creepy anti-abortion allegory," promoting teen motherhood ("In the Breaking Dawn universe, teen motherhood just makes your life rad."), idealized relationships, the heroine's dominant personality trait being low self-esteem, and the books in general promoting "a fundamentally conservative ideology."

Also good readin'
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:08 am

I've been waiting for this since the new movie came out, and it didn't disappoint:

Eclipse In Fifteen Minutes

Quote :
The Mean Streets of Seattle

[A dark and stormy night! A
handsome young man: prey for an invisible predator who terrorizes him
like a catpire with a mouse, finally pursuing him to the dead end of
the docks. He has nowhere to run! He has nowhere to hide! Finally the
creature strikes! He collapses, screaming in agony as the venom takes
over! I am... really confused, because this looks like a movie about
actual vampires and actual vampiring.]

A Magical Sunny Meadow Filled with Pretty Purple Flowers

[Okay, now I know what movie we’re in.]

Quote :
[You know what? If we’re going to call this a ~*saga*~, I think we need more Vikings.]

[EDWARD CULLEN was a fearsome sparklepire, bronze of hair and mighty of fangirls, and after many trials that could have been avoided if he hadn't been a total dick,
he brought back to his beloved his favorite meadow (he has a favorite
meadow), and thereupon fair Bella did recite to him the songs of her
English textbook.]

Quote :
[And so the Bronze-Hair gave his forests and his mountain-lions into
the hands of his not-kinsmen, so that he might take his beloved to a
sunlit shore far, far away from things actually happening, and his
not-kinsmen might seek his greatest foe: Victoria, That One Redhead
Vampire Who Demanded Vengeance For James, Her Slain Lover, Even Though
He Was A Severe Asshole, And I Don't Really Know What Else She Expected
To Happen When He Kidnapped The Tasty Beloved, Yea, To Torture And To Eat Her.]

CARLISLE: Look sharp--they've recast Victoria, so she'll be harder to spot!

ALICE: I psychically foresee her coming our way!
om
JASPER: GAP AD FORMATION!

Quote :
JACOB: *marlonnnnn brandooooos*

EDWARD: *jaaaaames deaaaaaaaaaans*

JACOB: *MARLONNNNNNN BRANDOOOOOS*

EDWARD: *JAAAAAAAAAAAAMES DEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANS*

...


[And so the Savory Beloved did cut class and mount the wererival's
motorsteed, while the Tousled of Hair gazed after in deep chagrin, and
sought a teacher to tell on herrrrr.]

Quote :
BELLA: What's imprinting?

JACOB: It's a deep, spiritual bond
where someone who may or may not yet be toilet-trained becomes your
center of gravity. She becomes your whole world. You would do anything
for her, you would be anything for her. Anything. All night long.

Quote :
JACOB: Bella, I love you, and I want you to know this, so we don’t have any wacky misunderstandings--

BELLA: Oh, like the one in the last movie, where you made Edward think I was DEAD?

JACOB:
--because I want you to choose me. Choose life, not death. Choose a
real future. Choose a guy who can age occasionally, if he feels like
it. Choose a family of werebabies with me. Choose fur. Choose abs.
Choose tight fitted t-shirts and visible undawears--choose motorcycles,
not Volvos. Choose someone who can keep you warm at night, literally.
Choose someone who would have sex with you right now.

BELLA:
Jacob, I love you, but I will always love Edward more. Also, it's muddy
out here, and "choose" doesn't look like a word anymore.

JACOB: HE-WOLF DECIDE HOW PUNY GIRL FEEL! JACOB KISS BELLA TILL BELLA AGREE!

BELLA'S FIST: *FACEPUNCH*

JACOB'S FACE: *FISTBREAK*

Quote :
JACOB: I laid one on Bella, and she broke her hand. On my face.

CHARLIE: ...

JACOB:
Come on, Charlie, you like me better than him! You're supposed to
congratulate me in a really obnoxious, paternalistic way!

CHARLIE: WHAT? What is WRONG with you? WHY THE HELL would I do that?

JACOB:
But... Charlie! I'm your best friend's son! You've always wanted Bella
to go out with the werewolf next door! I'm practically family!

Quote :
BELLA: Jacob, nothing you can say will make up for the fact that you disrepected my free will and personal space.

JACOB: I carved you a charm bracelet?

BELLA: Ooo, quaint!

Quote :
Chez Sparklepire ~*After Dark*~

EDWARD: All I did
was light candles, put on soft music, buy you a giant bed and give you
a diamond! WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT MEANS I WANT TO SLEEP WITH YOU?

[Damn, Edward, she's trying to get her freak on! What's all this buzzkill about courtship and iced tea and souls?]

BELLA: Can I at least get a leg hitch out of this?

[HOT! STEAMY! KNEE-ON-KNEE ACTION!]

Quote :
EDWARD: You know, Jacob, if you weren't trying to steal my one reason
for living in the most underhanded ways... you'd be kinda cute.

JACOB:
Well, you know, Edward, if you weren’t a controlling, creep-ass
motherfucker... no. I still wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Quote :
The Battle of Sparklesburg

[Two allied clans
that once were foes now band together on the literal field of battle,
waiting for Riley the Gullible and his army to romero across the water
and bring unto them an action scene.]

JASPER: OLD NAVY BATTLE ARRAY!

[And yea, the two armies do clash bold upon the plain. Jasper's hair
leads the charge, and Emmett punchsplodes heads into rock salt. Alice
horizontivaults over the newborns in slo-mo. Hipsters go flying, and
are too busy dying to notice that Victoria and Riley have left them
high and shiny. There is much werechomping, and then... it's pretty
much over.]

Quote :
The Meadow of Great Sparkle

BELLA: Edward, I want you to
know--in choosing you, I'm not choosing an angel cupcake marble Adonis
over a handsy, hot-blooded he-beast. Really, I'm not even choosing you
at all, even though I went on for several hundred pages about how
irrevocably and involuntarily I fell in love with you. As a human, I
don't fit in--I'm so tired of this miserable existence, where I am too
pale, too slim, too smart--secretly hot, adorably clumsy, and wanted by
all the boys. Because I know where I really belong--as a vampire, I
will be the bestest vampire that ever vampired. I am ready to be the ultimate Mary Sue, Edward. In choosing you, I'm choosing me.

EDWARD: How... romantic?

[And
so the Tasty Beloved did don the cheese grater of his ancestors, and
after the mighty sparklepire consented to premarital hugs once more,
they returned to spread tidings of joy, and to beg for mercy from her
kinsman, though he might be fain above all other things to go after the
Bronze-Hair with his shotgun.]

BELLA: If I put on the ring, can we choose the sex now?

EDWARD: NO!!
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:08 am

You know what I wish more than anything else? That someone would convince Meyer to lay off the 1st person perspective, either that or skip around more between characters (like she did in BD, though less uselessly). I just read "The Host" and while it was superior to "Twilight", it was still plagued by Meyer's usual writing problems: A mostly submissive female character, off-screen action, plot holes, and the fetishism of youth. Clearly she has little ability to write and less interest in intrigue, adventure, or action scenes. There's nothing wrong with that, but then why does she insist on writing stories that require at least an attempt to to integrate those things into the narrative?

As for "Twilight" the only defense I've ever heard for it is that "Meyer perfectly portrays the passion and madness of teen love." Okay fine so then maybe it would have been better off as a tragedy somehow. A dead baby,a dead Bella, a harsh adjustment after being turned, Edward killing getting himself killed at the end of New Moon, anything, but no, there's a happy fucking ending with Bella gone sparkly and fucking her stupid, sparkly husband for hours on end. It's just...unbelievably infuriating. Teen love is tragic or transitory as a general rule. "Twilight" is like a John Hughes movie with vampires and buckets of angst.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:00 pm

I hate to copypasta, but I wanted to quote what The Spoony One posted on his blog about Twilight. The first part is something that bugs me and makes me wonder how people can even like the damn books as a 'guilty pleasure.' God know I have enough of those in literature, but I cannot wrap my mind around anyone who knows any better enjoying this drek. (bolding mine)

Quote :
I remembered what I was going to say about harlequin romance novels, and how they differ from Twilight. The “saga” is really amazingly unsatisfying in that there isn’t much sex at all. I hesitate to call it a chaste romance– it’s not– since they both clearly want to screw like jackrabbits. It’s not a question of “will they, won’t they,” because they will, it’s just a question of “when they,” or…”how they,” since a major subplot of the movie is Bella and Edward negotiating when exactly he’s going to snake his tiny, sparkling little undead wiener in her, and Edward’s puzzling, borderline suspicious hesitation to even step up to the plate, much less go for first base. He continues to plead that it’s “too dangerous,” whether it’s because of his physical strength (ever hear of riding cowgirl?), or his own conflicting passions for blood (which is never really adequately expressed beyond stammering and him mumbling, “I can’t…not now…”). A smarter book might have explained the insatiable, desperate vampiric thirst and how he would lose control in the heat of the moment…ugh, just thinking about it makes me puke a little. But their reluctance to having sex until marriage is more a matter of physical limitations (Superman/Lois metaphor?) than any kind of moral hangups. They WANT to, they just can’t.

And that smacks of just plain lazy, uncreative writing. Trust me, a lusty couple would work something out. They’re called handjobs. Get a vibrator, Edward. This isn’t complicated, and this whole sheepish, “we mustn’t for I have the strength of a hundred douchebags and I might harm you with my vampiro-cock and its mighty shotgun load” routine spells “limp dick bore” to me. If Edward’s had a hundred years to learn how to love, you’d think he could have spent one of those to learn how to go down on a girl. For fuck’s sake.
I am actually kind of impressed to hear a guy judge Twilight against other brainless romances and still put a finger on what is wrong with it. Shit is not sexy.

The next part is relevant to what Shinra wrote above on the previous page:
Quote :
The other thing that baffled me was the constant reminders from every peripheral character about all the things Bella would be sacrificing to be with Edward. Charlie, her school friend, Jacob, Bella’s mother, all give touching speeches about how they value companionship, the rich experiences of a normal life, growing old with someone and having grandchildren, making mistakes and learning from them, being enriched by family and all the highs and lows over the passage of time…and with Bella, it’s in one ear and out the other. She never even pauses for a second to rethink her decision. Not. One. Second. Again, perhaps a smarter novel would have made this into a very tragic story, where a young girl allows her lusts and passions to blind her into making a devastating and eternally damning decision, forever hating herself for her own ignorance and for not listening to people she should have trusted. Instead, the movie seems to imply that nobody understands Bella, that they’re being closed-minded or perhaps they could never understand what Bella’s going through, since they’ve never experienced a love as true and pure as her love for Edward.

No, I’m serious. I’m not making this up.

Despite all these perfectly well-reasoned arguments (so reasonable, in fact, I have to question aloud whether or not it was actually in the book), Bella enthusiastically discards her friends, family, any hope for a normal life, her loving mother and devoted father, and any chance at ever being integrated into society… for Edward Cullen. And all this leads back to my initial search for one thing, just One Thing connecting Edward and Bella besides their desire to fuck. Give me something. Give me anything. I’ll take it and run. With a romance story, you have to be able to somehow justify this blind, utter devotion to a person beyond purely physical or chemical terms. And no, “he gives her stuff” is not a basis for a relationship. At least, not the kind you’d swoon over.

I hate this series.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:13 am

Spoony is quite right, of course, but he neglects to consider the primary audience for the series: tween girls who probably don't know much about sex and don't want to feel like they're reading something 'dirty'. As I've said before (and I'm sure others have too), Twilight repackages the 'dark, forbidden' supernatural romance sub-genre in a nonthreatening way that appeals to that demographic. There may also be the 'blank slate' issue - people have mentioned that Bella is such a flat character that the reader can project themselves onto her easily. The romance itself is kind of the same: nothing much physical ever happens (until BD, which to my knowledge fades to black), so the reader can project their own fantasies of precisely what they want their sparkly dream man to do to them into the story.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:09 am

Quote :
Despite all these perfectly well-reasoned arguments (so reasonable, in fact, I have to question aloud whether or not it was actually in the book), Bella enthusiastically discards her friends, family, any hope for a normal life, her loving mother and devoted father, and any chance at ever being integrated into society… for Edward Cullen.

I think it's been made obvious that she has absolutely no desire for a normal life. She's so incredibly boring that she need something to make her and her life different. Plus, don't forget, most tweens would give anything to leave their life behind to become something cool and awesome and just be away from everything that ties them down to school, jobs, their parents, etc. Hell, most adults would too. I think it's part of why Doctor Who is so popular. People leave their normal lives and everyone they love behind on a whim to take a dangerous and potentially fatal journey with him through time and space. Why? They were bored. The Doctor has cool stuff. Normal life is haaaaaaaarrd. They weren't cool on earth. Reasons like that.

And no I'm not comparing the two. Just had to comment on that.
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