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 Twilight: The Death of Feminism

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:56 am

Maximilia wrote:
They sparkle?! That's not a vampire--that's a fairy!

:sissies:
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:17 am

[quote="Rabid Badger"]I can dismiss Morgan as a quirk (I don't think I've ever heard of another man, gay or straight, reading Twilight). quote]

I know of at least two more - Wolf, who read it because his sister then agreed to read The Hobbit, and my roommate's boyfriend, who not only has all 4 books but also owns the movie. And he enjoys [re-reading/[/i] them, something I can't imagine. I worked my way through the books once, at first to see what the fuss was about, then to see if they were as bad as rumored. I don't want to read them again.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:21 am

I've only read Twilight and New Moon, but I plan on reading Eclipse and Breaking Dawn soon, so I'm avoiding those spoilers.

I think that Twilight is a very mediocre book and I think Edward and Bella's relationship is ridiculously codependent and creepy. However, I think that's the only reason I was able to read the books. I'm fascinated by creepy romances.

I don't really have a favorite character, except for maybe Mike, but I absolutely loathe Jacob. He's worse than everyone else combined, if you ask me. He's boring, annoying, and can't take a fucking hint. Bella doesn't want you, loser. Shut the fuck up and move on.

I think that New Moon is a zillion times worse than Twilight. Every chapter after Edward left was boring, uneventful, and whiny as fuck. The only parts that I enjoyed in New Moon are the ones in Italy. Oh, and the part where Jacob leaves because Bella loves Edward and not him. Seriously, New Moon might've been a little more tolerable if Jacob wasn't in most of the chapters.

I'm hoping that Eclipse and Breaking Dawn are more interesting than the first two. I'm definitely looking forward to the eventual confrontation with Victoria because so far, there's been a lot of build-up to that. I also hope that Jacob dies very slowly and painfully. Twisted Evil And I definitely hope that he doesn't show up as often as he did in New Moon.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:31 am

Lysander, I love your review/snark. It's brilliant! :D

I tried reading the first chapter of Twilight, and not even a page into it I wanted it all to end. Holy fuck Bella is annoying and deserves to get slapped. They're trying to be nice to her at her new school and she can't be bothered to remember people's names?! No wonder Forks might not feel like a fun place, because you're being little miss whiner!
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:20 am

Sparrow wrote:
Rabid Badger wrote:
I can dismiss Morgan as a quirk (I don't think I've ever heard of another man, gay or straight, reading Twilight).

I know of at least two more - Wolf, who read it because his sister then agreed to read The Hobbit, and my roommate's boyfriend, who not only has all 4 books but also owns the movie. And he enjoys [re-reading/[/i] them, something I can't imagine. I worked my way through the books once, at first to see what the fuss was about, then to see if they were as bad as rumored. I don't want to read them again.
I had a co-worker that decided to read them after he saw the movie. I think he was high or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:23 am

Miss Misery wrote:
Men like Edward Cullen are the reason restraining orders were invented.

Which is odd, because I'm not sure he really even likes women at first. He views the most feminine character in the series (Rosalie) with hostility. At one point, he drags her hurt feelings out into the open, and laughs at her for it. There's also Tanya, a woman who flaunts her sexuality and is openly attracted to him, which makes him deeply uncomfortable. The only one he seems close to is Alice, and he seems to dismiss or ignore her ultra-girly tastes and hobbies.

Meanwhile, he seems to view Bella almost as a child, obsessively focusing on her vulnerability, and being amused by her clumsiness. The first time he fantasizes about her, he has to borrow Jessica's fantasies about him, and replace Jessica with Bella, because he doesn't have any fantasies of his own! This is difficult for him, because he used to be "repulsed" by those fantasies (and in an odd bit, this causes him to reminisce about his mother!). When he first fixates on Bella's breasts, he seems to immediately dismiss the thought of them every time it comes up.

Even as far as the third book, he has to struggle just to use the word "sexy" in a sentence. He doesn't really start to get over it until the second time he nails her. It isn't until she becomes a vampire that he seems to finally accept her as a girl.

Trust me, if you think this book does weird things to female sexuality, you should see it from my perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:39 am

I could not read those books. I couldn't get past the first chapter, though it has to be said that I didn't try very hard. Thank you, Lysander, for reading them and thus meaning that I don't have to.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:42 am

Maximilia wrote:
Vampire fiction is ok, Solitia. I mean, you don't have to be embarassed about liking vampires. They're popular for a reason.

Indeed. Read Låt Den Rätte Komme In (Let the Right One In). The Swedes can show you how Stephenie Meyer should have done it.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:55 am

You saved this! I am so glad- this was the best snark of Twilight I've ever read.

That said, I tend to lose a little bit of respect for someone every time I find out that they not only enjoyed Twilight (I can live with that, seeing as I read some trashy books), but refuse to admit that it's just light reading. I've had people tell me it's real literature, and THAT is unforgivable.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:59 am

Lysander wrote:
Miss Misery wrote:
Men like Edward Cullen are the reason restraining orders were invented.

Which is odd, because I'm not sure he really even likes women at first. He views the most feminine character in the series (Rosalie) with hostility. At one point, he drags her hurt feelings out into the open, and laughs at her for it. There's also Tanya, a woman who flaunts her sexuality and is openly attracted to him, which makes him deeply uncomfortable. The only one he seems close to is Alice, and he seems to dismiss or ignore her ultra-girly tastes and hobbies.

Meanwhile, he seems to view Bella almost as a child, obsessively focusing on her vulnerability, and being amused by her clumsiness. The first time he fantasizes about her, he has to borrow Jessica's fantasies about him, and replace Jessica with Bella, because he doesn't have any fantasies of his own! This is difficult for him, because he used to be "repulsed" by those fantasies (and in an odd bit, this causes him to reminisce about his mother!). When he first fixates on Bella's breasts, he seems to immediately dismiss the thought of them every time it comes up.

Even as far as the third book, he has to struggle just to use the word "sexy" in a sentence. He doesn't really start to get over it until the second time he nails her. It isn't until she becomes a vampire that he seems to finally accept her as a girl.

Trust me, if you think this book does weird things to female sexuality, you should see it from my perspective.

This is probably one of the most interesting takes I've ever seen on Twilight. You should write an essay on this and submit it to twilightsucks.com
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:09 am

Narwhal wrote:
This is probably one of the most interesting takes I've ever seen on Twilight.

If you're at all interested in the awfulness of Twilight, but you haven't read the Midnight Sun leak, then I suggest you do so. Bella's sexuality is so dull and shallow that it hurts. Edward's sexuality is a fucking insane twisted ball of neurotic confusion. In fact, I can see in retrospect that he had the most character growth throughout the series. We just never get to see it, because we're stuck in Bella's retarded head. Compare his reluctance to allow Bella breathing space in the first book, to letting her fight a mountain lion. Look at the way he panics at the mere possibility of sex, and how they end up having 8 hour fuckfests.

Another interesting thing to observe are Emmet (who is ultramasculine) and Rosalie (who is ultrafeminine). Emmet is portrayed as competitive, strong, sexually potent, and understanding.

Rosalie is portrayed as shallow and vindictive (because, it's not healthy competition when girls do it). Victimization plays a large role in her backstory. Edward rejected her as a potential sexual partner. She desires a baby, even if it means Bella's life.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:10 pm

One possibility is just that Stephanie Meyer doesn't really "get" male sexuality, or has Opinions about what it should be like. Hence Edward is uber-chaste (which comes across as neurotic repression) until he and Bella get married, then turns into a freaking sex god. I think there's a certain dichotomy between Victorian/Mormon repression and a desire for darque gawthic forbidden love in Twilight. It kind of flirts with the idea of innocent human girls getting all hot and bothered and eventually sexed up by animalistic supernatural monsters (the sort of thing that happens in more overtly trashy/porny fiction of the same genre), but chickens out of anything really forbidden or dangerous happening, at least on the romantic front. I suspect that's why it's so popular: it's forbidden gawthic supernatural romance sanitized enough for mass-marketing and so that (for example) teenage girls can present it to their mums as epic romance rather than vampire porn. Pretty much like Fabio-on-the-cover romance novels where the smouldering pirate captain, noble savage or brooding outlaw sweeps the bosomy heroine off her feet but doesn't actually ravish her like real pirates, savages or outlaws most likely would.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Well, Bella seems to have no problem getting fucked before marriage. She actually starts stripping for him in Eclipse.* She needs a man to help control her feminine emotional outbursts, I guess.

But yes, she's clearly in the dark when it comes to the male perspective on sex.

Also: :edward:

*This makes it seem really insincere when she freaks out about being naked with him on their honeymoon.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:23 pm

Twilight: The Melodrama of Whygodwhyians. And, uh, Bella.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:28 pm

This xkcd comic seems relevant:

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:52 am

Why do I suddenly want to see a fic of Alucard tearing through the entirety of the Twilight cast. Just imagining it makes me so happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:12 am

Somath Cegem wrote:
Why do I suddenly want to see a fic of Alucard tearing through the entirety of the Twilight cast. Just imagining it makes me so happy.
That's a good idea. You should write that in the Challenges Forum. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:39 am

Somath Cegem wrote:
Why do I suddenly want to see a fic of Alucard tearing through the entirety of the Twilight cast. Just imagining it makes me so happy.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Not fic, but awesome nonetheless.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:40 am

Keith Fraser wrote:
One possibility is just that Stephanie Meyer doesn't really "get" male sexuality....

Meyer doesn't get much of anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:45 am

KelinciHutan wrote:
This xkcd comic seems relevant:

Hah hah, yeah. That Steph Meyer sure is a mastermind . . . . wait.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:19 pm

Lysander wrote:
KelinciHutan wrote:
This xkcd comic seems relevant:
Hah hah, yeah. That Steph Meyer sure is a mastermind . . . . wait.
I think it was more a comment on the general level of most Twilight fans. Apparently, the author thinks Twi-fans are worse than 4chan. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:14 pm

I've just read the summary of Twilight and Midnight Sun to my mother. She vows NEVER to read any of the books, and is fully convinced of their utter craptacularness.

Not that she'd ever be stupid enough to read them in the first place, but Thanks Lysander, for getting these back up! :D
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:38 pm

Recap: an 11-year-old bookworm who thinks of me as her all-knowing and wise mentor finished reading Twilight. I warned her that shit gets freakier in the following books and has her vow not to read Breaking Dawn before she gets to middle school.

This time: I just got news that New Moon has been translated into Hebrew. There's no WAY that piece of news is going to pass over that little bookworm's head, is there?
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Probably not D: but we can hope for a while, can't we? Or perhaps she'll actually see the severe suckitude that is the second book.
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PostSubject: Re: Twilight: The Death of Feminism   Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:46 pm

Well, she's a smart kid who's just looking for fun fantasy books to read... she's already taking the first book very lightly and wants to read the rest just for the sake of completion.
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