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 The Salvation War

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gaijinguy
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:58 am

Garfunkel wrote:
Except that first God sends a message for his followers to lay down and die.

Which hasn't been made clear in the text. Everything says that it was Satan chewing the scenery, not God.

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Week after that, Satan demands surrender.

Why? He needs to extract our souls from our bodies anyway to get what he wants (remember, character motivations, little details like that) and everyone who was going to just kill themselves already went out with the first Message. So why bother with more instead of just sending in the troops?

Of course, we all know the real reason: so he can fart around with Heralds, dropping them down in the middle of nowhere and giving humanity a huge amount of target practice as opposed to actually accomplishing any of his goals.

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Declaration of War is a propaganda stunt to prop up morale, like the Doolittle Raid in WW2.

Prop up morale for what? The end of the world? Notwithstanding the massive die-back, the economy should be a wreck- people aren't going to leave money in the bank when Doomsday crops up on their day planner, that's for damn sure. The fact that civil authorities have any power is just the first of the ridiculous implausibilities this POS runs off of.

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All the powers of Heaven and Hell are based on their descriptions in Bible

Except for the, you know, part where God creates the universe, because then he'd just un-create it and the story would be over. But aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

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and the author has mostly managed to make them work through known science.

Because organic zeppelins going 200 MPH is totally scientific! FR SRS GUIZE!

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It's actually much more closer to hard sci-fi than any Star Trek episode ever,

It's also not quite as badly written as Batman & Robin. Is that supposed to be a selling point?

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even though some explanations at first glance seem outlandish, they are based on real science, just taken a step or two forward - exactly the mantra of hard sci-fi.

This is wrong. The square cube law should be doing horrible, horrible things to the behemoths. The harpies shouldn't be able to function. The quantum entanglement bit is dubious, to say the least; why a tinfoil hat would block it when an MRI wouldn't has yet to be explained, as is how a signal could be shut out when it's being carried by already-entangled particles.

But let's assume, for the moment, that the science is totally unquestionable and 100% bulletproof: it's still a shitty story. The entire setup is grossly contrived (they speak English but don't know what a horse is? Are you serious?) Realisitic consequences in the worldbuilding are totally ignored when they don't serve the main characters' purposes. The antagonists are only appreciable as parodies, and their motives, on the rare occasions that they're explained at all, make no sense. The writing is bogged down with reams and reams of unnecessary description. The jokes aren't funny. It doesn't matter if the science is mind-blowingly detailed and 100% accurate if everything else is shit.

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Gun-wank is such a curious term.

When the author spends this much time fondling the equipment, really, what else can you call it? It's not like any of those interminable descriptions advances the plot or the characterization.

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Should we have terms like "conversation-wank" too? Or mayde "drama-wank"? The descriptions are spot on, technical details are mostly correct and the story reveals the nastiness of modern warfare much better than many others, sanitized version.

Then it takes a rare talent to make material this compelling as dull as it's turned out to be. I don't care about any of the characters, partially because we've got 40 billion of them, none of whom are distinct or interesting. Even the ones based on real people are unmemorable, except when an absurd author contrivance involves them (hello there, Mr. Clinton.)

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UR JUST A FUNDIE CUZ U DUNT LIEK TEH BESTEST STORI EVAR HURF DURF

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The natural sciences are also correct. Some details have been wrong, which is understandable in a first draft.

So, they're correct except for the parts where they aren't, which are OK because it's a first draft. The fact that much of the story hinges on the incorrect parts is apparently a minor detail.

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Maybe your personal grasp on science isn't as strong as you might hope for?

My personal grasp of science is sufficient unto my purposes, TYVM. It's my background in economics that's really been playa hatin'.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:23 am

Garfunkel wrote:
Yes and no. EMI can be mitigated enough, that you can get a signal clear enough so its understandable. It's not 100% perfect but near enough so speech gets through.

...which is basically what I said.

Penguin wrote:
No. First of all, it is a flight, not a single plane. And callsigns have nothing to do with the nicknames of warplanes. No-one in any command center thinks about Eagles, Hornets or Falcons no matter what planes they have at the area, they speak and think of only the callsigns. Been there, done that.

I eagerly await your defense of pilots with callsigns of "Sam" and "triple-A."

Penguin wrote:
If you would have read a little bit more, you would have found the explanation - the larger demons and angels have an innate ability to create small portals between their dimension and Earth. Hence they just popped in, not that USN allowed them to waltz in.

It'd be nice if there was something in this travesty of a story to actually say that, rather than force readers to fumble for an explanation.

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Like Aegis wouldn't have been updated since 1973. But your argument goes wrong, because he deliberately states that "now being tracked by three of the most advanced radar systems in the U.S. Navy" and earlier he wrote "Crown and Scepter are tracking also", which means that the 3 most advanced radars are the one in the cruiser, the second is the destroyer and the third is Hornet the protagonist is flying.

Blah blah blah blah. All I read here is "It was perfectly acceptable for me to masturbate to gushing descriptions of radar systems."

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Uh, no. Do you know anything about how military radar systems work?

Considering that pilots' lives are entrusted to my know-how, you'd better hope so.

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When people talk about radar locks, they mean that a firecontrol-radar is spamming the target, keeping it in the targeting box. That is an inherently hostile move and even under the strickest of ROE's, allows the targeted plane to start self-defence measures, because the next step is either inbound shells or missiles. Search radars do not "lock on target", only firecontrol-radars do.

Except when, you know, your fire control and search radars are the same system.

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Well, that's artistic licence. He needed to have encounters with the emissaries to start up the story, so they conveniently met with powerful forces in air, land and sea. I personally would have preferred one to get into a large city, where it could have created some havoc as police are trying to bring it down but it really isn't a huge deal.

Which is why this is shitty writing. There's no reason for us to even read this story. "Demons showed up. The military pummeled them with their huge man-muscles and six foot erections. The demons died. The end."

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Yes, supposed to. Rarely is. Jargon, catch-phrases, etc infest it as much as any other "professional speak".

No shit, Sherlock. But if anyone started rattling off polysyllabic bullshit just because, they'd get a bitch-slap. That sonar operator probably has no friends and killed himself shortly after that scene.

Penguin wrote:
Ever been in a real military briefing? Repetition is endless.

Hey yeah, remember that scene where there was a military briefing that was in any way relevant to what I said? No? Okay. Cool.

Quote :
He only uses "fiver" in the first chapter, iirc, so again - that's ridiculously nitpicky.

If that's ridiculously nitpicky to you, he could say that the Hornets were firing flaming penises at the demons, and you'd defend it as a mere oversight.


Last edited by Penguin on Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Manners. Lol.)
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:40 pm

Wait. Waitwaitwaitwait.

Are you people really nitpicking the military realism of a glorified fanfic?

That's... certainly something.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:56 pm

Ceres wrote:
Wait. Waitwaitwaitwait.

Are you people really nitpicking the military realism of a glorified fanfic?

That's... certainly something.
Well, the author tried to write military realism into their glorified fanfic, so...
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:03 pm

Ceres wrote:
Wait. Waitwaitwaitwait.

Are you people really nitpicking the military realism of a glorified fanfic?

That's... certainly something.
The difference is, Penguin is GOOD at it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:42 pm

@Ceres: Penguin is currently serving in the military, and Gai formerly served. Believe me, this could be talked into the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:21 pm

Faust Aleph Null by James Blish presented a more realistic confrontation between the forces of Hell and American Military Might. America got its ass kicked. This abortion is just a military geek masturbation power fantasy.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:16 pm

The thing with pitting two fantastical fictional realities against each other, or actual reality against a fantastical one, is that it's usually impossible to be sure just how powerful/capable they are compared to one another; this is a regular issue on AlternateHistory.org. To take an example, Star Trek vs. Star Wars (as mentioned earlier in the thread). One fanboy will tell you Star Trek's weapons must be more powerful because they use crazier technobabble as opposed to Star Wars' plain old lasers and ion cannons; another fanboy will say Star Wars has much better weapons because the Empire regularly bombards whole planets into rubble. Ultimately, an author usually can and should make up their mind in such a way that an interesting story results. A Curb Stomp Battle is not an interesting story.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:45 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
The thing with pitting two fantastical fictional realities against each other, or actual reality against a fantastical one, is that it's usually impossible to be sure just how powerful/capable they are compared to one another.

Exactly. I suspect that's how the jueao-christion god got so powerful. Every time a new culture was converted (conquered) the newly converted had to be shown what a bad ass god was compared to their own "wimpy" god. An infantile my federation can beat up your empire sort of thinking. If Satan were real and genuinely evil a morally primitive gung ho attitude would stand little chance against him.

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Silly Little Man: "I can't control it!!!" (weapon misfires)
Evil: "Of course you can't control it you silly little man! I control them!
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:52 am

Garfunkel wrote:
Don't confuse something done to dramatize a movie with reality. Saying that Bronze Age army should have managed to give modern US Army trouble is ludicrous. And the demons actually do score some victories, when they get to melee range, thanks to their superior physique.

Frankly, this argument is pants-on-head retarded. A "Bronze Age" army? You've got forces that can dominate the entire EM spectrum (the "emissaries"), and they can teleport at will. Did they just happen to do this by accident?

I just can't fathom the mentality that says that supernatural creatures should be such boring pushovers, especially when they demonstrate knowledge of current technology, EXCEPT when it comes to the military. Even though we're talking about the avatars of all things evil about man.

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Um, no? It is stated several times in the first "book" that had the demonic invasion come as late as WW2, the outcome might have been quite different. Go back to the 19th century and the demons would have won. It is only because our scientific and technical breakthroughs during the 20th century, especially the later part, that humanity can effectively fight back. Still, the cause plenty of casualties, thanks to their incredible ferocity and courage, even under horrific bombardments.

ZERG RUSH
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE

Quote :
Not so, they also subvert and infiltrate and have weapons of mass destruction, though naturally these are less effective, since it is basically a Bronze Age society with some "magic" sprinkled in - funky evolutionary paths, basically.

Which brings me back to the reason why this is travesty of a story is so boring. The demons are merely a Bronze Age society with a the slightest bit of magic thrown at them so that the military has something large to shoot at.

Frankly, this story is less interesting than reading about some guys going to the shooting range and drilling holes in paper until they get tired and go home for a few beers.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:51 pm

zootie wrote:
Faust Aleph Null by James Blish presented a more realistic confrontation between the forces of Hell and American Military Might.

Realistic? Are you sure that you're not confusing Satan and Sauron?

Because, I read the Bible, and I never got the impression that he was all that powerful. He doesn't seem to ever actually do anything impressive. His greatest victories come from talking to people or tricking them, not physical or military might. It's not like he swordfights Jesus or raises an army of orcs to conquer Israel or anything, and if he can't even do that, why would he be able to defeat modern day America? In fact, the one time he actually does go to war, he loses badly. He seems more like a slimy used-car salesman type than some kind of fantasy cliche Dark Lord who is ready to march forth and conquer all of Middle-Earth.

Don't get me wrong, it's scarier and more interesting if he's more powerful, but I think that the reason people believe that he's really powerful is that it's scarier and more interesting that way.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:01 pm

Lysander wrote:
like he swordfights Jesus

WHY HAS NO ONE WRITTEN THIS

DAMMIT LYSANDER
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:20 pm

InkWeaver wrote:
WHY HAS NO ONE WRITTEN THIS

I KNOW!

That's kinda my point, though. This whole idea is out of character for Satan. Nothing indicates that Satan is an unstoppable fifty foot tall Balrog with the power to physically conquer Earth, and even if he could do that, I think he'd rather rule it from behind the scenes than send an army to crush it. He's a lot like Loki, but people are assuming that he's more like Kali, because that's scarier, but it's just wrong.

Meanwhile, this story turns him into Darksied's retarded cousin.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:29 pm

Hmmm, that makes me wonder...

Just who WOULD count as the scariest religious/mythological being?
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:48 pm

Thanos6 wrote:
Hmmm, that makes me wonder...

Just who WOULD count as the scariest religious/mythological being?

God.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:57 pm

Garfunkel wrote:
Don't confuse something done to dramatize a movie with reality. Saying that Bronze Age army should have managed to give modern US Army trouble is ludicrous. And the demons actually do score some victories, when they get to melee range, thanks to their superior physique.

What? Superior physiques? Yeah, a being that, upon being made to bleed for whatever reason, starts dying because its own blood starts burning it is not a superior being. It's a ridiculous thing that shouldn't exist.

Quote :
Not so, they also subvert and infiltrate and have weapons of mass destruction, though naturally these are less effective, since it is basically a Bronze Age society with some "magic" sprinkled in - funky evolutionary paths, basically.

Which is stupid, because again, you're trying to have supernatural beings explained away as divergent evolutionary paths from humanity. Either Satan and his demons are supernatural beings as described in the Bible (and the Torah, and the Quran, for that matter), and as such are beyond humanity and (normally) beyond physical, or at least visible, fleshy bodies, OR they're not supernatural beings and are instead natural, fleshly creatures who are more akin to us than the spiritual beings described by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

And no, you CANNOT mash both explanations together and hope that they work.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Malganis wrote:
Which is stupid, because again, you're trying to have supernatural beings explained away as divergent evolutionary paths from humanity. Either Satan and his demons are supernatural beings as described in the Bible (and the Torah, and the Quran, for that matter), and as such are beyond humanity and (normally) beyond physical, or at least visible, fleshy bodies, OR they're not supernatural beings and are instead natural, fleshly creatures who are more akin to us than the spiritual beings described by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

That's not the problem, really. The problem is this right here:

Quote :
The "militant atheism" in the story apparently you argue about apparently is just the butthurt that assaults christians when their sky fairy isn't all-powerful and just daddy - the whole point behind the story if superstition vs reason. The natural sciences are also correct. Some details have been wrong, which is understandable in a first draft. Maybe your personal grasp on science isn't as strong as you might hope for?

First of all, speaking as someone who is not a believer in any religion and who harbors a bit of resentment towards them in general: fuck you and fuck your attitude, you smarmy dipshit. Maybe people wouldn't be butthurt if you weren't constantly dripping arrogance from your every goddamn pore. I don't exactly agree with Gaijinguy on much, but at least he doesn't have his head shoved lengthwise up his gaping rectal opening like you seem to.

Now, maybe I don't have ten degrees in science and engineering, but I think I know a thing or two about writing. So, maybe I can squeeze some constructive criticism from my poor, dumb, unscience-y brain.

First of all, the "hard science" approach is exactly what's wrong with this story. "Demons invade the earth, and some people shit their pants but we overcome our fear and find out we can kill them" is a perfectly acceptable premise for a story. It worked for Doom and Diablo. You could spin it exactly the same way: tell a nice little fable about how the fear was mostly in our heads all along, and that by looking at things calmly and rationally, we can overcome what we fear with science - provided that it fit firmly in the fantasy genre. That's really the only acceptable way of doing it. If you try to turn it into hard sci-fi, then you've gone and missed the point! It's no longer about science verses superstition, it's about science verses bullshit made-up science. Humanity doesn't really win because of the brains in their heads, or the courage in their hearts; they win because guns and missles beat made-up Star Trek technobabble bullshit that nobody cares about.

In fact, humanity never really displays any courage. They never overcome their fears: all the religious people die, and everyone else is just completely nonplussed that a horde of demons is set to invade the Earth. There's no suspense building up to it. It just opens with humans raining doom upon their enemies, with all the horrific details of shrapnel shredding into flesh described in an almost pornographic manner.

Yes, thanks to Neckbeards Anonymous, instead of tension and payoff, we get a bunch of quasi-scientific details explaining how demons can fly. As if anyone not wearing a pocket protector actually gives a shit.

I swear, even Michael Bay knows how to create tension, and that man can barely put together a coherent narrative. Hell, this is a lot like a Michael Bay movie, right down to the absurd military fetishism that does nothing but obstruct the plot. This is Transformers 2 for atheist nerds.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:09 am

Lysander wrote:
Thanos6 wrote:
Hmmm, that makes me wonder...

Just who WOULD count as the scariest religious/mythological being?

God.

Well, aside from that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:35 am

Garfunkel wrote:

The story clearly states that about 10% of humanity committed suicide and these were mostly the deeply religious christians, jews and muslims. Death toll outside Abrahamic religions was neglible. Might be shock to you but in western countries, large majority of "religious" people just go through the motions, without a "personal connection to God", no matter what the fundies sprout.
Oi, but if you and your SD.net arseheads sincerely believe that the vast majority of humanity isn't superstitious, you're in for a shock. Science is not the majority's consensus, not even close. Hell, most people in the world don't even know what science is, or how it's supposed to work.
Just because many people aren't deeply religious it doesn't mean they won't change their stance when Satan in person comes a-knockin' on their door. When confronted with the unfathomable, over 90% of humanity does turn into superstition.
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:02 am

To be fair, he said that only people from the Abrahamic religions were affected, which would leave China, India, Japan and much of SE Asia predominantly unmoved - that's something like half the world population just going "WTF?" as opposed to "God has abandoned us!" The big mistake in that post is the phrase "in western countries". That accounts for maybe 10-20% of the world population.

Also, I seem to remember reading among the gush about this story on TV Tropes that the Pope excommunicates God and George W Bush is the one to declare war on Hell. Wouldn't those two count as devoutly religious? Were they spared simply in order to set up attempts at Crowning Moments of Awesome? Or was that changed in later versions?
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:46 pm

Malganis wrote:

Either Satan and his demons are supernatural beings as described in the Bible (and the Torah, and the Quran, for that matter), and as such are beyond humanity and (normally) beyond physical, or at least visible, fleshy bodies, OR they're not supernatural beings and are instead natural, fleshly creatures who are more akin to us than the spiritual beings described by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
And no, you CANNOT mash both explanations together and hope that they work.

Yes. In any confrontation with Satan the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world would make an alliance with him. Because they are evil? No, because the alternative would be to give all their wealth to feed and clothe the poor, and they would have to give up their power to turn the other cheek love their enemy. Faith in God's will. What a scary concept! How many would really go with the commandmants of the rabbi from Nazereth?

Hiroshima, Verdun, Auschwich, cluster bombs, napalm, nerve gas. They're all Satan's creations, working through the human soul. At least if you believe in a literal Satan that you can go mano a mano with.

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:04 pm

zootie wrote:
Yes. In any confrontation with Satan the wealthiest and most powerful people in the world would make an alliance with him. Because they are evil? No, because the alternative would be to give all their wealth to feed and clothe the poor, and they would have to give up their power to turn the other cheek love their enemy. Faith in God's will. What a scary concept! How many would really go with the commandmants of the rabbi from Nazereth?

Well, of course nobody gonna buy it, if that's how you're presenting it. Why not start with the Four Noble Truths of Buddhism, and work your way to Jesus from there?
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:21 am

Keith Fraser wrote:
To be fair, he said that only people from the Abrahamic religions were affected, which would leave China, India, Japan and much of SE Asia predominantly unmoved - that's something like half the world population just going "WTF?" as opposed to "God has abandoned us!" The big mistake in that post is the phrase "in western countries". That accounts for maybe 10-20% of the world population.
That's still two billion people, of which most are, if not devoutly religious, at least prone to becoming superstitious/panicky/both if Satan just happens to appear and say "Yes, I exist, and I'm ending the world NOW!". Those people make up a sizable portion of several US states and even the majority in certain countries.
Saying every religious person in the Western countries just killed themselves right off the bat was just a contrivance made to ensure all remaining people are non-superstitious (which is false, given the premise) and in a united front against the demons - as if all nations of the planet would act in the same way and agree on everything from the beginning. Yeah, just remove Abrahamic religion and all the world will get its act together! I have a word for this, it starts with "bull" and ends with "shit".
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:59 pm

Wouldn't a mass suicide of all the truly devout in America significantly affect its military's ability to react to a crisis, thinking about it? Doesn't the US military do a lot off the ass-kicking in The Salvation War?
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PostSubject: Re: The Salvation War   Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:31 pm

I thought I already posted in this topic. Hunh, guess it was all in the chatbox months ago. I can see that it does put forth a lot of effort in worldbuilding with its own mechanical creations, but at the same time makes it utterly boring. I'm sorry if someone has covered this before, but I've been itching to tear at this thing.

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“Balls.” Said Lieutenant Michael Wong.

It may be of importance to inform you that Michael Wong, aka Darth Wong, is one of the administrators, and one of his contributions to SD.net include a guide to sex toys.

What's fascinating about the sparkly Twilight vibrator is that its girth measures 1.82" larger than other vibrators of similar length and protrudes from my anus a grand total of 4.362 inches, as measured by this sine wave denoting my colorectal spasms. The 2 represents how loud I screamed, as measured in Audacity, so it could be rightfully considered as amplification of the wave y=sin x by a factor of 2. I have yet to find a method of trigonometry that would accurately depict my spasms as they peak in frequency at amplitude 2 until they are 0.32 seconds apart (rounded to the nearest hundredth). This works assuming I expel my semen as the frequency peaks at every (pi)/15, any larger fraction of pi would be considered premature ejaculation and therefore a defect in the manufacturing of the toy.
(I made that up myself)

Quote :
booming in the cockpit of his F/A-18E, had distracted him from paying proper attention to the cockpit display of his APG-79 radar. The new AESA radar was a vast improvement over the older APG-73 but that was, as always, a slight problem all of its own. Until the pilots learned how to take full advantage of the improved data flow, they could be swamped with it.
The idea with worldbuilding is to start off vague, and have the story explain it. Asimov does a fine job of being vague, then slowly adding detail in a concise, interesting way to help build tension. This is neither interesting nor concise, and I doubt that this radar has any major significance to the story besides fap material for Neckbeards Anonymous.

This kind of exerpt would be much more interesting:
He wasn't used to the new radar; it presented more data than the old radar, and to him it appeared to be a stew of useless information. Why would the military require all this information to be presented on one screen was beyond him. "Damn APG-79s," he thought out loud.

Quote :
Lieutenant Anthony Squires was genuinely interested, he was renowned as being the Ronald Reagan air group’s grammar geek.

How can someone be a grammar geek if they're speaking? This is some nice irrelevant tearing down of the fourth wall. But I'm giving them too much credit- this guy's likely the one correcting the technobabble.

Enunciate! E-FUCKING NUNCIATE. AY-PEE-GEE HYPHEN DO NOT FORGET THE MOTHERFUCKING HYPHEN SEVENTY NINES

Quote :

“Try a ‘that’.” Wong wasn’t really interested, The targets in front of him were behaving oddly. They were slow, 180 miles per hour at most, and they had a strong radar image yet seemed to have no infra-red signature.

It would help to explain the significance of an infra-red signature in this case, besides it being odd. Reading further hurts my head, because these guys forget what makes science fiction interesting and go onto debates as to whether which science fiction series is more correct. Another important part of worldbuilding that they forget is that if they're making a piece of fiction, the physics could be off. The idea should drive the mechanics, not the other way around.

So we have this main idea "Demons versus US Military, who would win." For starters, demons are paranormal, and don't exist in our tangible world. We can't apply the laws of physics to them because nobody's ever seen one. This is where imagination comes into play. Personally, I'm thinking that because demons don't exist in our tangible world (i.e. we can't sense them, only believe in them), if they were to come out and play traditional military devices wouldn't be able to detect them. It'd play right into the supernatural, in my opinion, and should have taken more cues from that kind of fiction.

Since the military shouldn't be able to detect these demons right away, and because they are battling creatures that have to do more with a set of beliefs than a set of tech, the story should have less tech descriptions. It makes the story move slow as fuck (even though they're supposedly moving very, very fast). Since it's fiction there should be some leeway- if the other military personnel know how something works, there isn't a need to explain it. Normal readers don't give a crap that you designed your own radar systems and came up with names for them. It's a goddamn radar. It detects stuff. They care about plot and movement in a story, with characters and a message. The message here is so convoluted by tech it's ridiculous. With trying to be accurate and getting it wrong, as Penguin says you are, it looks more like a tech fap more than anything. In art and writing, you can be excused for being technically inaccurate as long as your work can stand by itself without it by being interesting. You can have the most accurate depiction of the military, or anything for that matter, and it'll be boring. Mundane. Still lifes are accurate depictions of objects, and despite being technically superior, they're boring as hell. Why are cartoons popular? Why is style important? Why do many people love sci-fi and fantasy? Because it turns art into more than just a human xerox machine. Same goes with writing.

There are so many opportunities to illustrate what's wrong with the world and what could be made better with this kind of story. That's what science fiction does, right? Isn't it often a vehicle for this kind of thing? I mean hell, Asimov had the Multi-Vac and all kinds of wonderful stories that focused on tech versus the human condition, and they were interesting. He doesn't vomit out technobabble at every opportunity and guess what he uses to move a story along? Dialogue in plain English. Guy even had a story where the antagonist was a nerd who couldn't relate to the world around him because nobody cared about his complex views of the world. The nerd thought the whole world was stupid for not wanting to listen to him, but it turned out in the end that he was the idiot for missing the bigger picture.

Fuck, I'd keep reading if this story was about how Demons took over the world, and humanity got its act in gear, summoned up courage, united all people regardless of religion, and kicked some ass. But no, this is like one bad technobabble trip that I'm not game for repeating. It takes everything that makes science fiction endearing as a storytelling medium away and replaces it with a goddamn technical manual and SD.net inside jokes. If you're gonna include religion and compare it to science's apparent lack of one, there'd better be some universal spirituality going on, tying it together with the human condition. because science is about universal truths, and there are some universal truths that are in all religions (and atheism for that matter). This is just... I've had more fun with notably terrible Marty Stu writers. It's that bad.

Edit: Hey Garfunkel, where's Simon?
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