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Cunovendus
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PostSubject: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:32 am

I don't know about the rest of you, but for those of us living in the UK, this is quite a big deal at the moment. Basically, the leader of the Scottish National Party (a party that, if it existed in England, would be considered racist bigoted nazis) wants Scotland to break away from the UK and become an independent country.

A few months ago, it looked like most of Scotland wanted to remain part of the UK, but in recent months, and with the referendum just around the corner, the "yes!" campaign is gaining momentum, and they've yet to unleash their most potent weapon: re-runs of Braveheart - you know, that work of fiction that lots of Scottish people think is based on a true story and get really patriotic about (which is a bit like Americans getting patriotic about Rambo).

So, thoughts? I have no love for the Scottish, but I think if they really want to be independent then they should be. I only hope that they vote for the right reasons, and not because they believe Alex Salmond's bullshit.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:07 pm

My grandad was Scottish and we are quite close to our Glaswegian arm of the family. What I found interesting was that the younger members of the family want to remain with England with the older ones teetering on the verge of voting for independence. I have no idea of that's representative or not, so it's not meant to be anything but an observation.

Now I'm no lover of Cameran and the rest of the ConDemNation bunch of public schoolboy fatheads in their ivory tower *cough* I mean Whitehall. However, I think the whole split thing is just some jingoistic vanity campaign for Salmond. I'm surprised he's not smeared woad on his face, ripped his shirt open, donned a kilt of dubious origin and gone rampaging through the nearest glen screaming "YOU CAN TAKE MY LIFE, BUT YOU'LL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM!" a'la Braveheart (or an Australian and Hollywod rapes the corpse of William Wallace). And on the other side we have a bunch of wet lettuces who can persecute the poor and sick with vicious sanctions, but can't put up a cohesive or impassioned argument over why a 300 year old union of nations should be kept other than threats from their big business fatcat buddies.

If I had to vote, I feel the same way as I do over independence from Europe that is often bleated about. How the feck should I know if it's a good idea or not? It didn't do Ireland much good and a lot more historical blood was shed over that than ever was in Scotland. The politicians should be deciding this kind of thing behind closed doors. Thatt's what we pay them for rather than all this referendum bullshit and the consequent four ring circus designed to make it look like we have any form of actual say in the matter. How about we have a referendum over wether we need so many politicians in the first place and if they actually deserve anything more than minimum wage and a sofabed in their parliamentary office? No - I didn't think we'd get that kind of useful, money saving say in matters.

*falls off soapbox, grabs some migralieve*
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:10 pm

who will save the sane wrote:
It didn't do Ireland much good and a lot more historical blood was shed over that than ever was in Scotland.
How about fuck you? Independence gave us our own government and the ability to make our own decisions, for better or worse. It also kept us out of World War II. British rule of Ireland (based on sectarianism and fucking racism) was not even slightly the same as Scotland, a largely independent nation until 1707, uniting with England and Wales because they blew all their money in Panama. I don't care what fucking nationality you are, you are not going to piss on the graves of Padraig Pearse and Michael Collins here. If you're Irish you should be ashamed of yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:21 am

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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:06 am

who will save the sane wrote:
However, I think the whole split thing is just some jingoistic vanity campaign for Salmond.

That's pretty much what I think it is.

Quote :
I'm surprised he's not smeared woad on his face, ripped his shirt open, donned a kilt of dubious origin and gone rampaging through the nearest glen screaming "YOU CAN TAKE MY LIFE, BUT YOU'LL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM!"

Yeah...a 14th century kilt, along with 14th century woad. Wink

Quote :
And on the other side we have a bunch of wet lettuces who can persecute the poor and sick with vicious sanctions, but can't put up a cohesive or impassioned argument over why a 300 year old union of nations should be kept other than threats from their big business fatcat buddies.

True, they don't seem to be trying very hard at all.

Quote :
If I had to vote, I feel the same way as I do over independence from Europe that is often bleated about. How the feck should I know if it's a good idea or not?

I think most people are the same, and it would be nice if everybody could be made to know the full implications of what were voting for. It's all too easy for people to get caught up in a rush of pride and patriotism, and say "Yeah! Scotland! Fuck you you English cunts! I hate you all because...uh...my grandfather says you're all cunts!", and the EU referendum is the same...I worry that too many people won't consider it properly, and will just say "Yeah! Fuck you Brussels! Fuck you Angela Merkul! No more fucking immigrunts! Yoo Kay forevah!", as if leaving the EU will wave some magic wand that'll instantly fix everything.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:52 am

Lady Anne wrote:
can we fucking get rid of this emoticon once and for all

seriously anne that shit's just lazy
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:07 am

Cyberwulf wrote:
who will save the sane wrote:
It didn't do Ireland much good and a lot more historical blood was shed over that than ever was in Scotland.
How about fuck you? Independence gave us our own government and the ability to make our own decisions, for better or worse. It also kept us out of World War II. British rule of Ireland (based on sectarianism and fucking racism) was not even slightly the same as Scotland, a largely independent nation until 1707, uniting with England and Wales because they blew all their money in Panama. I don't care what fucking nationality you are, you are not going to piss on the graves of Padraig Pearse and Michael Collins here. If you're Irish you should be ashamed of yourself.

Sorry about that. What was in my head didn't come out of my fingers properly. I was trying to make a quick point about finances, which seems to be one of Salmond's selling points. The "Celtic Tiger" isn't exactly a shining example of what the Euro can achieve. And to be fair, part of that was the global economic climate. However, Ireland managed that with dignity and no pulling out the "Your great great grandad shot my great great grandad!" card. Or more accurately "Your ruling classes starved my great great grandad to death while they gave your whole great, great family from the 4 year old children up emphysema working them to death for a pittance in a cotton mill." It was done in the spirit of optimism for the future rathe than trawling up the past.

Terrible things happened in the past and the not too distant past in Ireland's case. I'm old enough to remember The Troubles in the news daily and the "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs" placards on pub doors. I lived in a town the IRA bombed in the 1990s and thank goodness that most people had become enlightened just be shocked rather than hate every Irish person on the planet. And those atrocities are part of the point I was trying to make rather than piss on graves. Salmond is deliberately stirring up not just patriotism, which there is no shame in, but he's picking at the horrible wounds of history that really are best kept out of modern politics for his own place in the history books.


Last edited by who will save the sane on Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:21 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:16 am

Cunovendus wrote:
True, they don't seem to be trying very hard at all.

I know. Do you think they've secretly given the contract for rebuilding Hadrian's Wall to a company owned by one of Cameron's Eton cronies before Salmond can tender it out?
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:11 pm

who will save the sane wrote:
Cyberwulf wrote:
who will save the sane wrote:
It didn't do Ireland much good and a lot more historical blood was shed over that than ever was in Scotland.
How about fuck you? Independence gave us our own government and the ability to make our own decisions, for better or worse. It also kept us out of World War II. British rule of Ireland (based on sectarianism and fucking racism) was not even slightly the same as Scotland, a largely independent nation until 1707, uniting with England and Wales because they blew all their money in Panama. I don't care what fucking nationality you are, you are not going to piss on the graves of Padraig Pearse and Michael Collins here. If you're Irish you should be ashamed of yourself.

Sorry about that. What was in my head didn't come out of my fingers properly. I was trying to make a quick point about finances, which seems to be one of Salmond's selling points. The "Celtic Tiger" isn't exactly a shining example of what the Euro can achieve.
Well, you should've said that instead of implying that independence didn't do Ireland much good.

Quote :
However, Ireland managed that with dignity and no pulling out the "Your great great grandad shot my great great grandad!" card.
...Ireland managed what? What's "that"? If you mean the economic crash then why would we pull that card? Who would we pull it on? You know, separate from Britain since 1922. Proper Republic since 1949. You aren't comparing like with like, if that's even what you're trying to do.

And LadyAnne, go fuck yourself and your fucking popcorn smilie. It's not only lazy, it's insulting. If someone implies that Ireland would've been better off being ruled by the people who stole our land, punished us for our religion, and exported all the decent food while leaving us to fucking starve, of course I'm going to be angry. Fuck you for belittling that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:00 am

who will save the sane wrote:

Sorry about that. What was in my head didn't come out of my fingers properly...

And on that note...welcome to WGW. Wink

Back on topic...personally, I think it's unfair that only those currently resident in Scotland, or those who own registered property in Scotland, are allowed to have a say in this. How about those Scottish people living south of the border? And how about the rest of the UK? Surely this will affect the UK as a whole, yet the English, Welsh, and North-Irish don't get to have a say at all.

But then, they probably know that most English people will vote in favour. England and Scotland aren't exactly best friends, and most of us would be quite happy to disband the UK completely. This would not be in the interest of the politicians, so there's no way it'll ever happen.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:46 pm

Cunovendus wrote:
Surely this will affect the UK as a whole, yet the English, Welsh, and North-Irish don't get to have a say at all.
Why should they have a say? They don't live in Scotland. It's not about completely disbanding the Union, Scotland just wants to leave. If the majority of people in Scotland want to be a sovereign, independent nation, why should they have to stay in the United Kingdom just because the majority of people in England, Wales and NI want them to? It's like saying everyone in the island of Ireland should vote on whether the North should reunite with the Republic.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:23 pm

I dunno...maybe because there are Scottish people living in England, with family in Scotland, whom they will not be able to visit without a passport if this goes ahead. Maybe people have to drive to Scotland for work, and will no longer be able to do so without going through customs. Maybe because people won't be able to use English currency there anymore (despite what Alex Salmond reassures everybody because he doesn't know what he's talking about). There are many reasons why some people might be affected by this decision, so surely if a decision has the potential to affect somebody, they should have a say in it? A country can't simply declare itself independent and expect life to go on as normal for everybody else. This decision will affect the whole of the UK one way or another.

Besides, maybe we want to vote in favour. Maybe we want to get rid of Scotland but are worried that they might vote to stay. Not everybody in England is in favour of keeping the UK intact. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:32 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
And LadyAnne, go fuck yourself and your fucking popcorn smilie. It's not only lazy, it's insulting. If someone implies that Ireland would've been better off being ruled by the people who stole our land, punished us for our religion, and exported all the decent food while leaving us to fucking starve, of course I'm going to be angry. Fuck you for belittling that.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:01 pm

Gee, last time we tried to secede a bunch of damn Yankees burned down my great great grandpappy's house.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:03 am

Well, today is the day. I would hope for a vote in favour, but I have a few friends who would be devastated if this happened (I don't care either way and would be quite happy to cut loose and let them sink or swim as they will).

I also am now convinced that this isn't about what's best for Scotland. It's about Alex Salmond's anti-English jingoism, and a chance for the proportion of pig-headed Scots who think Braveheart is a true story to remind us how much they hate us (as if we need reminding when they tell us at every opportunity).

The facts as I see it (and I'm no politician or economist so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this):

* Scotland will not be allowed to carry on using the pound. We can't stop them from using it, when there are so many in circulation, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the UK won't recognise it as legitimate. What that means for a country, I'm not totally sure.

* Scotland will not remain part of the EU, this much has been made clear. By assuring people that they will without ensuring that this will be the case, Alex Salmond has embarrased himself.

* Scotland will no longer get UK taxes, so they will have to fund their free healthcare and higher education themselves. Whether they can do this on their own taxpayers, and revenue generated from their North Sea oil, remains to be seen (but if they can, I would really, REALLY, like to know why this country can't).

* English owned businesses based in Scotland (namely Royal Bank of Scotland) are likely going to move out of Scotland, and RBS customers are going to switch banks - I know of at least 3 people who say they're going to do this. A mass migration of a bank's customers is never a good thing.

People who vote should consider those things before they decide. This is too important a decision to simply be given a blind "Fuck you England!" vote.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:20 pm

am I the only one that hears all of cunnys posts in their head read in a high, reedy voice with plenty of wheezing
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:41 pm

I was thinking I wouldn't come here again, but come on, If RBS pulls their corporate shit out of Scotland, that means the next time they fuck themselves right up their own arse (and there will be a next time) and need billions in bailout Scotland won't have to find a penny of it. I bet Salmond's quakin' in his fuckin' boots. They'll keep all their call centre and processing operations up there 'cos it's cheap and established so the employee tax income won't change, and they pay piss all corporate tax anyway.

Also, I rather suspect they'll vote to stay in the Union but I wish they'd take the independence. I really do. Especially as they never did solve the West Lothian question*.

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*No, it's not "Where's West Lothian?", Commander.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:09 pm

yeah I get the feeling Cunovendus hates Scottish people for some reason

well today that fount of wisdom john bruton was in the news talking through his hole about how the scottish referendum proves that the 1916 rising was a mistake

oh we could've just waited until wwi was over and then home rule would totally have gone ahead as planned because it wasn't like there was a group of people violently opposed to home rule who had established a paramilitary group in the event of it passing or anything
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:03 am

I've nothing against the Scottish. Just heard too many "anyone but England" style comments to have any love for them. Razz

Anyway, they voted 'no', so I guess they don't hate us that much after all...either that or they forgot to show Braveheart and Rob Roy on every channel the night before. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:50 am

I kinda doubt the UK would part with virtually all of its entire nuclear weapon program and half its military facilities anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:30 am

Not to mention most, if not all, of its winter olympics contingent!
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:07 pm

One of these things is not like the other.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:31 am

Maybe not, but they'd both inspire massive Internet wangsting.
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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:41 pm

They made the right choice. Whatever Alex "Twat" Salmond said, the independence campaign was all about hate - hating Tories, hating London, and blaming both for an entire country's ills. I had a friend on Facebook who compared it to the fucking declaration of independence and went apeshit at him. The two are in no way similar. As soon as it turned out that fiscal union was going to be logistically difficult a lot of Scots who initially pledged yes changed their mind at the actual ballot box.

It was a good referendum though as it introduced the world to this man on Question Time:





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PostSubject: Re: The Scottish Independence Referendum Thread   Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:57 am

Cyberwulf wrote:
And LadyAnne, go fuck yourself and your fucking popcorn smilie. It's not only lazy, it's insulting. If someone implies that Ireland would've been better off being ruled by the people who stole our land, punished us for our religion, and exported all the decent food while leaving us to fucking starve, of course I'm going to be angry. Fuck you for belittling that.

Did they actually do any of that to you? Or anyone you know? You've been "free" from England for 9 decades, fucking relax.

Mr.Doobie wrote:
am I the only one that hears all of cunnys posts in their head read in a high, reedy voice with plenty of wheezing

Couldn't tell you. I read the first sentence, it's invariable asinine, see ALL the rest of the words, and scroll down.
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