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 Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now

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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:29 pm

Actually, despite what the culture pretends it's teaching, many American kids today still think they are entitled to a living in some way BECAUSE THEY ARE AMERICANS.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:54 pm

@Cunovendus and Cyber

I think you both make good points. On the one hand, if we say nobody is entitled to anything, that could deplete the public's view on necessary social safety nets. It's very easy to throw poor people under the bus especially during harsh, economic turmoil that a majority of people are experiencing.

However, I also think that the ideals of the US, particularly the American Dream, can be toxic because it creates unrealistic expectations of being guaranteed anything so long as you work for it. This ideal is not new to millennials as the older generations were fed the exact same thing. The older generation just happens to be lucky enough to have been adults when they had a better chance.

As for Elliot, he was a violent, misogynistic brat that lacked the critical thinking skills to differentiate between women and Princess Toadstools.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:10 am

Cyberwulf wrote:
How about we don't pretend that America is some backward place that teaches its children (oh heaven forfend we specify MEN HERE even though the shooter was motivated by misogynistic feelings of entitlement to women's bodies) that they're entitled to anything their hearts desire, as if Europe is oh so much better? Especially when there's a very strong cultural narrative in American society that you have to work for everything and accepting government handouts is for Commies. You know, the one that keeps people in minimum wage jobs dependent on welfare and/or forced to work sixteen hours a day and never see their families because they don't actually earn enough to live on, because being successful is just a matter of working harder.

Seriously, could you be any more tone deaf here?
Quoted for posterity.


Hawaiian Shirt wrote:
I don't know if the debate is totally irrelevant. I guess I'll toss my lot in with the "no guns ever anymore please" hat but I know better than to think that's how humanity works. The part of the gun control debate that I always want to talk about is the culture surrounding it.
Yes, this. I'm not even necessarily for strict gun control measures. If so many of the people wielding guns weren't such fucking raging violent asswipes, we wouldn't need gun control. If the people decrying gun control measures were actually responsible with their weapons (see douchebags who [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in the toy aisle at a Target in South Carolina) it would be a non-issue. But it's not. Because, again, gun control in itself isn't really the issue. The people fighting the hardest against gun control are really fighting what they see, rightly, as a threat to their privileged status in our culture. Grabbing guns and shooting the threats (black people and women) are a manifestation of this. Between the two goals of changing the culture and restricting guns, which one is more achievable?


Penguin wrote:
(lots of words)...As an average Joe, I'm fuckin' furious. Because I do have a need for guns, reinforced by experience time and again, at home and abroad. The inevitable gun control wank after a mass murder is like people arguing about whether I should be allowed to have my right arm, and under what circumstances. You can probably tell how willing I am to seriously entertain the point of view of those who believe I should give it up.
So, let me ask you...as a gun hobbyist, are you more insulted by people who want to take away your responsibly owned and operated firearms, or by people who insist on brandishing their guns in public, intimidating bystanders (intentionally or unintentionally), children who [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] under adult supervision, adults who [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] children with guns, etc. etc. etc.

No one is criticizing responsible gun ownership. Several of my family members are gun hobbyists, they're great people. The pushback comes because there are very public displays of irresponsible gun ownership which get lots of people killed. I would think that someone who enjoys guns as much as yourself would have more incentive to criticize those who publicly disrespect your hobby through their antics. There need to be more responsible gun hobbyists speaking out against the irresponsible ones.

Also, as far as safety...I carry several weapons when I'm out by myself, and none of them is a gun. Guns are far from the only self-defense method available.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:01 am

Owly wrote:
So, let me ask you...as a gun hobbyist, are you more insulted by people who want to take away your responsibly owned and operated firearms, or by people who insist on brandishing their guns in public, intimidating bystanders (intentionally or unintentionally), children who shoot themselves under adult supervision, adults who fail to supervise children with guns, etc. etc. etc.

Because... obviously if he's insulted by one he's less insulted by the other? What the fuck kind of red herring is this?

owly wrote:
No one is criticizing responsible gun ownership.

So why punish responsible gun ownership?

Because y'know that's kinda what Penguin was arguing about.

Owly wrote:
Also, as far as safety...I carry several weapons when I'm out by myself, and none of them is a gun. Guns are far from the only self-defense method available

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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:40 am

A responsible gun owner should never have a reason to use their gun.

Kids today feel so entitled. Watch The Simpsons much? Well, there are plenty of Aesops about family life, but nothing about using your money responsibly. Homer has no job and often wastes money, but they never run out of money for holidays or his latest wacky scheme.
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Cyberwulf
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:24 pm

jesus christ harley would you ever a) read the thread b) fucking get a clue about the actual issues involved

for fuck's sake
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Cunovendus
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:06 am

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Kids today feel so entitled. Watch The Simpsons much? Well, there are plenty of Aesops about family life, but nothing about using your money responsibly. Homer has no job and often wastes money, but they never run out of money for holidays or his latest wacky scheme.

I think the reason for that is intentional. There are people who waste money and act irresponsibly, yet they always seem to have plenty, and are somehow able to coast through life doing very little, and still have a much better living than somebody who works hard and has to fight for every penny. Capitalism doesn't always reward the hard-working, it rewards whomever it's most convenient to do so at the time. Sadly, I think the irony may be lost on some people.

But yeah, kids today do feel entitled to stuff. I think they always did, only the difference is that nowadays people have more disposable income, so they're more likely to be able to give children the things that they want now. The side-effect of that, however, is that they often grow up thinking that they can always get what they want, so they come to expect it, and are confused when they don't get it.

Of course, this isn't the only factor involved with this particular incident, but I'm sure it's one of them. The guy's issue was that he couldn't get the sex he felt he deserved.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:39 pm

Every generation says "Kids these days are _____" Of all the kids I interact with on a daily basis (high school teacher here... so over 100) I can't really say any of them are entitled in the way that they are made out to be by the public. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the reason people think these kids today are entitled is because they have... I don't know, cell phones?

These students know that the things that they want out of life (college and career) aren't going to be easy to get. They're really not that disillusioned as they're understanding, I think even moreso than adults, that the system is rigged against them.
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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:03 pm

Weird; I sometimes wondered how I could kill people at my school. Since I didn't have a gun I imagined taking a knife in. We have a 7 inch bread-knife at home.

I was 14 and sick of being bullied.

I got the idea from a school shooting!
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:56 pm

Oooh, yeah, Harley, good idea. A 7-inch breadknife is just so threatening instead of that nice, 13 inch chef's knife that cuts through raw steak like it's water.

Remember, use the serration instead of the blunt, round tip!
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Cunovendus
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:18 am

It's not just these days, kids were always like that. My point is that today they're more likely to get what they want.

I remember fellow classmates making a fuss when their parents wouldn't buy them the trainers that they wanted, as if they believed their parents were obliged to buy them the most expensive trainers in order to prevent other kids from bullying them (which is bollocks by the way - if people want to bully someone they'll find a reason - but this was a common mentality when I was growing up (whether it still is or not I have no idea) ). If you're used to getting what you want, you're likely going to be surprised when your parents can't magically summon a hot naked girl for you to "screw" (I really hate words like that by the way).

The solution: stop giving kids everything they want all the time. Or at least make them agree to pay the difference out of their own pocket...you'd be surprised how the value of expensive trainers changes when it means going without pocket money for 6 months. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:23 am

I bet you hate it when they run across your lawn too. Probably run off and post about it on the twatter and whatnot.

KIDS THESE DAYS AMIRITE
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:30 am

TheHedonist wrote:
I bet you hate it when they run across your lawn too.  Probably run off and post about it on the twatter and whatnot.

  

I give up.
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Cyberwulf
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:57 am

Good, because I have no idea why you're hellbent on this "KIDS TODAY ARE HANDED EVERYTHING AND THAT'S WHY THIS GUY KILLED PEOPLE" theory. HE DIDN'T FUCKING DO THIS BECAUSE HIS PARENTS BOUGHT HIM NEW TRAINERS EVERY YEAR. He did it because virtually every single piece of cultural media reinforces the ideas that women are things that can be won/earned/obtained, and that men are entitled to women. He told us why he did this. He did it because bitches wouldn't fuck him. Why the fuck are you so determined to ignore that and look for some other phantom explanation?
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:11 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
Good, because I have no idea why you're hellbent on this "KIDS TODAY ARE HANDED EVERYTHING AND THAT'S WHY THIS GUY KILLED PEOPLE" theory. HE DIDN'T FUCKING DO THIS BECAUSE HIS PARENTS BOUGHT HIM NEW TRAINERS EVERY YEAR. He did it because virtually every single piece of cultural media reinforces the ideas that women are things that can be won/earned/obtained, and that men are entitled to women. He told us why he did this. He did it because bitches wouldn't fuck him. Why the fuck are you so determined to ignore that and look for some other phantom explanation?

I recognize the guy from love-shy dot com and don't know if that realization is kind of creepy

creepy for me anyway
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:30 am

As soon as a heard about it I remembered those love shy guys always talked about going on killing sprees because of lack of sex. PUAhate is very much the same way. It was only a matter of time before one of them talked himself up to doing it, I suppose, especially with their little echo chambers to encourage them. Damn tragic.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:42 am

Well in their defense didn't even a couple of the MRA's think he was mad creepy and compare him to Patrick Bateman?

Or was that on the body-building forum because I know Rodger's killing spree landed him in the MRA hall of fame.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:52 pm

Mr.Doobie wrote:
Owly wrote:
So, let me ask you...as a gun hobbyist, are you more insulted by people who want to take away your responsibly owned and operated firearms, or by people who insist on brandishing their guns in public, intimidating bystanders (intentionally or unintentionally), children who shoot themselves under adult supervision, adults who fail to supervise children with guns, etc. etc. etc.

Because... obviously if he's insulted by one he's less insulted by the other? What the fuck kind of red herring is this?

Yeeeeah, I really don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. They both suck.

Owlish wrote:
No one is criticizing responsible gun ownership.

Sure they are. And at the same time, they're not. "Responsible gun ownership" is subjective. (You should see how divisive, say, FPSRussia's videos can be on gun boards). So are "reasonable" and "strict" gun control.

Quote :
I would think that someone who enjoys guns as much as yourself would have more incentive to criticize those who publicly disrespect your hobby through their antics.

You seem to think I don't already. scratch 

Quote :
There need to be more responsible gun hobbyists speaking out against the irresponsible ones.

The problem is that the responsible tend to hang with the responsible. After some stupid accident makes the news, someone posts the article, someone says "wow, what a dumbass," someone else says "he should've done (incredibly obvious thing)," everyone agrees and moves on. There may be a mild argument over how big of a dumbass the guy in the article is. Or if it's a criminal act like a shooting spree, it's unanimous condemnation of wanton murder and "victim disarmament zones." It's kinda like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The closest thing we have to any kind of community mouthpiece on this shit is the NRA, and nobody cares what they have to say. "Hmm, yes, typical NRA, trying to shift the blame away from the guns," if they notice at all. There are smaller organizations that the vast majority of people have probably never even heard of, like the JPFO. I don't think their quotes show up anywhere but their own online press releases, which go completely unnoticed by anyone who wasn't already aware of them.

From a political standpoint, attempting to go beyond what we already do just makes it look like we're starting to agree with people that we have too many guns, or the wrong kind of guns, or whatever. "Oh, so you agree with me that this is a bad thing? Then why don't you support my Common-Sense Legislation™️? You DON'T want to require a $200 license and 60-day waiting period mandatory for owning a gun with microstamped bullets? Then you're shedding crocodile tears, you heartless monster!"
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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:33 pm

Or we could say "He's just fucked up." Fucked Up people do that kind of thing and then come up with reasons later.

And if they don't, the press will think of a reason for them, like how I have Sonic Adventure 2 on my computer will surely justify me attempting to create a biological weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:30 am

yeah harley he came up with reasons after he killed himself you ridiculous fucking dumbass
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:00 am

Yeah, I mean, he gave a manifesto in writing and on video. He was pretty straight forward about why he did it.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:08 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
Hawaiian Shirt wrote:
The same goes for Elliot "Two First Names" Rodger's dumbass echo chamber, where he was constantly bombarded with corroborating evidence that his perception of society and how it functions were 100% spot on.
internet support groups and how they can be a double-edged sword in the wake of this case

Yes. Internet is great when it helps activism in countries with censorship, but this is the dark counterpart of it. Long ago the local nutcase was forced to interact with normal folks. Nowadays you will find countless people confirming you in any opinion you might have, no matter how crazy or extreme.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:15 pm

^^ Oh gawd yes. Wish there was something that could reasonably be done about that, it is like knowing about a dozen timebombs waiting to go off.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:16 pm

Well, they certainly puke out NSA keywords like nobody's business.
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