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 Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now

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Cunovendus
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:22 am

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Owlish wrote:
Sometimes I wonder, just for the sake of experimentation, what would happen if I decided to go on a mass shooting spree? Maybe throw up a few youtube videos about all of the men who have cat-called, fondled, won't fucking take no for an answer and how I'll show all those fuckers and give them their comeuppance, and then go on a strip mall shooting spree. What would the ensuing conversation look like?

It would probably be a gaggle of insane "feminists" defending you and/or propping you up as a hero and a martyr in an attempt to be edgy and "thought provoking" (new slang for "retarded").  The other 95% of the country would acting out the usual gun control shit show.

Ha! Probably. She'd be declared, by a small extreme group, to be the unfortunate victim of male oppression, and it will be everybody else's fault.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:19 am

Owlish wrote:
Sometimes I wonder, just for the sake of experimentation, what would happen if I decided to go on a mass shooting spree? Maybe throw up a few youtube videos about all of the men who have cat-called, fondled, won't fucking take no for an answer and how I'll show all those fuckers and give them their comeuppance, and then go on a strip mall shooting spree. What would the ensuing conversation look like?

Of the 62 mass shootings in the United States since 1982, only one was perpetrated by a woman."  One out of sixty-two.
There would be huge articles about the rise of misandry (all quoting from A Voice for Men and framing the misogynistic "manosphere" as a response to extreme radical feminism), the SCUM Manifesto would be dragged out of mothballs and rigorously examined, and feminist groups would be cast as extremists. That's what happens when only (white, straight, cis) men count as individuals, and we treat everyone else as a cipher for their entire demographic.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:15 am

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
It would probably be a gaggle of insane "feminists" defending you and/or propping you up as a hero and a martyr in an attempt to be edgy and "thought provoking" (new slang for "retarded").

So you mean exactly like the MRAs did this time around or...? I'd disagree with your use of airquotes but yeah, someone who supports that kind of violence isn't really interested in equality at all. The only difference that I see is that as women, the backlash against them (both the perpetrator and her supporters) would be much larger.

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
The other 95% of the country would acting out the usual gun control shit show.

lool yes because spree-killing is by no means an almost entirely American phenomenon, there have, by no means, been about two spree killings a month for the last five years (most of which were performed with legal firearms), and you are not, as an American, twenty times more likely to be the victim of gun-related violence than in any other first-world nation. Nope none of that is true just go on covering your ears and playing golf with the butt of your rifle while doing squats which is what I assume you spend your days doing or something also how did you get that many arms I mean christ mikey

Exactly how many corpses are necessary until your need for a shiny metal penis substitute becomes the lesser issue? Just ballpark it for me, I'll wait.

Cyberwulf wrote:
That's what happens when only (white, straight, cis) men count as individuals, and we treat everyone else as a cipher for their entire demographic.

Well put, I believe I may borrow this phrasing now and again.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:52 am

Those stats don't seem remotely legit. Colbert
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:06 pm

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Good lord.  Everyone will have been judged and insulted by the time they're 18.

Actual sexual assault is a problem, regardless of how rare it is or isn't.  "BAWWW SOMEONE SAID MEAN/DEROGATORY/JUDGMENTAL WORDS TO ME" is not. 

No, Mikey, back the fuck up. Keep your wannabe edgy shit to yourself for once. You know perfectly well that I'm not saying men never get judged, or that I'm even talking about the kind of judgement that has nothing to do with gender.

See, here's the thing. I've had someone rub their dick on me in a bus when I was about twelve. I've had a stranger surprise-fondle my ass in a club, and when I turned around there was a group of about five young men there, all grinning, each pretending it hadn't been him. I've been called a bitch for not going outside and hooking up behind a club, when the same guy who called me a bitch outright admitted that he'd call me a slut if I had. That there was no way he wasn't going to insult me, regardless of what I did. And I can't actually count all the times someone tried to get my attention by rubbing his crotch on me on a dancefloor, before I'd even seen his face, before I even knew he was there.

And -and now please scrape your muppet brain together and pay close attention, because this part matters- this does not put me in the category of being a victim of sexual assault. Google says that in Germany, one in seven women will be the victim of sexual assault in her lifetime, and I'm not one of them so far. With all those experiences, and those are just off the top of my head real quick, I don't even think of myself as someone who has been assaulted; because this kind of stuff is so ubiquitous and so all-pervading that it's normal. Because a grown man can rub his dick on a twelve year old girl in public and I don't even take that into account.

That is the problem. That when we, when women talk about not feeling safe, we are already discounting all the stranger's dicks we have felt in our lifetimes. And that is something men don't know, because it is not a part of their reality, and it is high time to sit the fuck down and take note.


Shut the fuck up, Mikey, please. You're better than that.


Last edited by grmblfjx on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:24 pm

Penguin wrote:
Those stats don't seem remotely legit. Colbert

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I've exaggerated a bit, yes. But according to the above link there've been twenty mass shootings since Obama took office in 2009 (correlation =/= causation etc., it's just a convenient timeframe), and that study was conducted mid-2013. I don't think I need to tell you we've seen a few more since. Knowing we've had at least twenty in the five-or-so years since he took office, I'd say somehow 'our quarterly mass killing' doesn't sound a whole lot cheerier than 'our monthly mass killing'. Also, this (horrifying) average extends as far back as 2005. Moving on:

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The US has about 5% of the world's population and around 40% of its civilian-owned guns. There are almost as many guns owned privately in this country as there are people, full stop. if that doesn't say something about the generalized insanity of our gun culture I don't know what does, but moving on: the only countries with more gun deaths than the US are Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, and Brazil (to be fair, Russia is missing from these statistics and I would be fascinated to see where they fit in). Our percentage of homicides by gun violence is at sixty per cent which might not seem so bad until you consider the fact that there is exactly one developed nation that tops us for that: Switzerland, which has an...interesting gun culture in and of itself. Oh, and Lichtenstein, but they only reported one murder that year. Which was performed with a gun.

That said, don't throw suicide statistics at me. Any psychologist or social worker will tell you that having a gun in the house is the most conducive situation to a successful suicide. Pills or cutlery can go awry, a bullet to the brain rarely does. It really, really feels to me like the gun lobbyists are just fighting for the average Joe's ability to kill someone effectively and at will, and like, fuck that.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:59 pm

TheHedonist wrote:

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
The other 95% of the country would acting out the usual gun control shit show.

lool yes because spree-killing is by no means an almost entirely American phenomenon, there have, by no means, been about two spree killings a month for the last five years (most of which were performed with legal firearms), and you are not, as an American, twenty times more likely to be the victim of gun-related violence than in any other first-world nation.  Nope none of that is true just go on covering your ears and playing golf with the butt of your rifle while doing squats which is what I assume you spend your days doing or something also how did you get that many arms I mean christ mikey
Far be it from me to defend any of the stupid shit Mikey says, but he a) says "country" meaning America, b) doesn't cast that 95% as being pro- or anti-gun control. He may well come back and prove me totally wrong, but "gun control shit show" could just as easily refer to the whole debate about whether gun control is adequate or not, including the screaming gun nuts and the people who *supposedly* suspend kids from school for shooting people with their fingers.

Mental health care and gun control seem to be the two major topics being discussed in the aftermath of this shooting, with, you know, the killer's stated reason (violent misogyny) in third place. Again, this is because our society reads (nominally) white, straight, cis men as individuals, and since they're the ones with the most social power, it's not surprising that they're reluctant to read any pattern into sprees like this. Or to make any connection between their own sense of entitlement (however fleeting) when it comes to women, MRA online rhetoric, and the killer's videos and manifesto.

Oh, speaking of mental health, if a woman were to go on a killing spree because she's had it with the violence men perpetrate against women, at least one of the major narrative strands would be "crazy bitch". Not "crazy" as in "oh, she must've had something wrong with her, how sad that she didn't get the help she needed/why did nobody hear all the alarm bells?" Just. Crazy bitch. Because women are irrational and dangerous and blow up over stupid stuff.


Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Good lord.  Everyone will have been judged and insulted by the time they're 18.

Actual sexual assault is a problem, regardless of how rare it is or isn't.  "BAWWW SOMEONE SAID MEAN/DEROGATORY/JUDGMENTAL WORDS TO ME" is not. 

Mikey, it's a problem when the person yelling "FINE ARSE ON THA'" is with a group of five of his mates, it's dark out, and you've been warned since you were twelve that strange men are dangerous animals and it's up to you to protect yourself. Because if they hurt you it's your fault. And let's not bother teaching boys what's acceptable (like NOT RUBBING YOUR DICK ON A STRANGER) because everyone just knows that and rapists gonna rape. Male society tells women every fucking day that men - other men, strange men - are animals who can't control themselves, and at the same time berates women for treating the men they encounter like an animal that might bite them. You think women like not being able to trust men? I shouldn't have to be fucking hyperalert if I'm out after dark without my huge dog. I shouldn't feel afraid if I hear loud male laughter while I'm walking down the street. When one of the guys in my jujutsu class asks me if I can come to class early next week to go through the syllabus with him, I shouldn't have to go to my sensei to make sure he knows about that.

Grmbls said the rest. There's a whole world that's totally outside the realm of cishet male existence. And you know what? You're lucky you don't know about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:23 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
stuff
All good points, honestly.  I see nothing to argue with here, I'm just tired of people throwing up their hands and saying 'THIS IS UNPREVENTABLE GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE DO' when this is a damned near uniquely American problem, and we have the laxest gun laws of any first-world nation.  'OH THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO' except there are plenty of things we can do and other countries have done them to marginal-or-better success.  And I'm really tired of hearing about how someone went crazy and now a bunch of kids/women/fuck it, people, period, are dead every few months. And then listening to the inevitable parade of people whose immediate reaction isn't 'How can we prevent this' but 'IT WASN'T THE GUN'S FAULT'

So, well, yes, my reaction was a bit...reactionary.  But only because I am generally frustrated with and frightened by the situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:15 pm

TheHedonist wrote:
It really, really feels to me like the gun lobbyists are just fighting for the average Joe's ability to kill someone effectively and at will, and like, fuck that.
And you would be correct, because that's exactly what Stand Your Ground boils down to. The only autonomous agents in our society (white men) are permitted to kill whomever they wish whenever they wish, and the rest of us should just be thankful for their protection. *gag*


TheHedonist wrote:

All good points, honestly.  I see nothing to argue with here, I'm just tired of people throwing up their hands and saying 'THIS IS UNPREVENTABLE GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE DO'
What is just so ironic and funny is that even though that is gun activists' mantra, when the discussion does turn to who the shooters are (white men) well gosh darn there's no white male problem in our society! Well, if it's not the guns and it's not people using the guns, then what is it?

The same people who refuse to acknowledge the ubiquity of guns also refuse to acknowledge the culture that allows men to subject everyone around them to their violent outbursts. They don't want any discussion whatsoever, because no matter how that discussion plays out they are going to be on the losing side. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of them are also hypertensive, elderly and diabetic and won't be around much longer to infect society with their vitriol, it's just a question of how many other lives they're going to take before then...
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:30 pm

Cyberwulf wrote:
Oh, speaking of mental health, if a woman were to go on a killing spree because she's had it with the violence men perpetrate against women, at least one of the major narrative strands would be "crazy bitch". Not "crazy" as in "oh, she must've had something wrong with her, how sad that she didn't get the help she needed/why did nobody hear all the alarm bells?" Just. Crazy bitch. Because women are irrational and dangerous and blow up over stupid stuff.
Walgreens is out of my brand of tampons?!?!!!!11?! HOW DARE THEY!!! GRAAHHHH   aww there's no gun emoticon on here



And, yeah, this: Lessons from a Day Spent with the UCSB Shooter's Awful Friends

Quote :
9:16 am

Members of the forum start giddily reflecting on Rodger's fame and begin encouraging each other to write manifestos. After one PUAhater shared an image of an average-looking woman and told the room that she gets to have as much sex as she wants, one man with an Australian accent and an obviously electronically modified-sounding voice, intoned,

   Are you trying to inspire me to shoot up a super market? What are you trying to do? There's only one solution. I'm going to make a bomb. It's going to be a pretty good gig in Australia soon. Thanks ... for showing me the light.

One user, who was contributing via audio, suggested to the members that they should all begin drafting their own manifestos, explaining,

   When you post a video on Youtube it doesn't matter what the police say you've got your version of events on youtube before they have their say.

The Australian, seemingly unaware of the other Englishman's audio, added,

   I do believe I have the knowledge to kill 100 people. I believe I have the knowledge to kill the entire school. I know that's pretty pathetic, I think.

   Go back to my old school, past assembly, 9:00. Chain every single door. Shoot everybody in the assembly hall.

No one responded.

Quote :
Rodger said he did it because he hates women.

So do the other forum participants.

   [9:27 AM]: media doesnt aknolwedge the majroity of males' discontentment with current sexual distopia

   [9:27 AM]: its all about HATING WOMEN

How many times do they have to tell us before we believe them?

Quote :
1:21 PM

It's a strange feeling, being simultaneously afraid and annoyed and enraged. But that's how I felt for most of yesterday, because of frequent stretches like this:

   [1:21 PM]: how many of you here ever thought about committing mass murder?

   [1:21 PM]: yeah. just dont have access to guns in the uk. even the police just carry batons

   [1:22 PM]: if i tried pulling off a massacre, my kill count would be lower than elliots

Quote :
They're capable of being functional members of society — hell, Elliot Rodger was able to talk his way out of a property search that would have thwarted his mass murder plans before they even began to play out. Part of being a woman is the slow realization that some men, for no discernible reason, are always going to hate you. And you have no way of knowing who they are until they open their mouths, or open fire. Or sit as a fly on a wall in a chat room, invisible, female, and hated.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:32 am

Wulfie wrote:
"oh, she must've had something wrong with her, how sad that she didn't get the help she needed/why did nobody hear all the alarm bells?"

I am kinda encouraged that I see anyone talking about Elliot Rodger's privilege, etc, at all. I can only hope that Elliot Rodger will be an eye-opening experience partially because he so thoroughly demonstrates that these people typically throw up so many alarm bells but nobody hears them because they are a white, middle class male.

But then I just got done arguing with someone who was accusing me of reverse-racism because I used the term "white male pathology". So most likely Elliot Rodgers just succeeded in getting his fifteen minutes...
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:30 am

TheHedonist wrote:
Penguin wrote:
Those stats don't seem remotely legit. Colbert

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I've exaggerated a bit, yes.  But according to the above link there've been twenty mass shootings since Obama took office in 2009 (correlation =/= causation etc., it's just a convenient timeframe), and that study was conducted mid-2013.  I don't think I need to tell you we've seen a few more since.  Knowing we've had at least twenty in the five-or-so years since he took office, I'd say somehow 'our quarterly mass killing' doesn't sound a whole lot cheerier than 'our monthly mass killing'.  Also, this (horrifying) average extends as far back as 2005.  Moving on:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The US has about 5% of the world's population and around 40% of its civilian-owned guns.  There are almost as many guns owned privately in this country as there are people, full stop.  if that doesn't say something about the generalized insanity of our gun culture I don't know what does, but moving on: the only countries with more gun deaths than the US are Mexico, Guatemala, Colombia, and Brazil (to be fair, Russia is missing from these statistics and I would be fascinated to see where they fit in).  Our percentage of homicides by gun violence is at sixty per cent which might not seem so bad until you consider the fact that there is exactly one developed nation that tops us for that: Switzerland, which has an...interesting gun culture in and of itself.  Oh, and Lichtenstein, but they only reported one murder that year.  Which was performed with a gun.

That said, don't throw suicide statistics at me.  Any psychologist or social worker will tell you that having a gun in the house is the most conducive situation to a successful suicide.  Pills or cutlery can go awry, a bullet to the brain rarely does.  It really, really feels to me like the gun lobbyists are just fighting for the average Joe's ability to kill someone effectively and at will, and like, fuck that.


I can't argue with perception, stereotypes, or your gut feeling on it. We're both going to look at statistics our own way. So I'm just going to offer my take on it.

I own guns for a lot of different reasons. Most of them revolve around converting money to noise in a safe, yet exciting way. I find the mechanical action of firearms fascinating. I find breaking them a part and cleaning them to be soothing. There are few things I find more rewarding than a smaller shot grouping or hitting a target I wasn't sure I could. The only ribbon on my rack I care about at all is the Marksman one. Like gaming, it's a beloved hobby. So on that level, when I see people calling for bans of this or that or other things that make my hobby more inconvenient for me, I get rather annoyed.

It's that same kind of annoyance many of us get when the Jack Thompsons of the world show up after a tragedy to demand bans on the video games that the killers drew some sort of inspiration from, implying that all gamers are living in a fantasy world and one bad day, or a little bullying, away from turning into the next mass murderer. We object to this ridiculous slander, the idea that we might have to show ID because we might too young, or otherwise have to prove we're worthy to enjoy our hobby. We resent the suspicion that because of what we enjoy, we are a mass murder waiting to happen. Because the killing wasn't our fault, dammit. Just because that asshole enjoyed access to the same shit we have doesn't mean you need to take it away from us, or interfere with the business that drives it by making it more inconvenient to purchase it.

That's the "fun" side. Then there's the serious side.

I also have guns because I know there are bad people out there. I've been shot at. I've had rockets fired at me; the ex-Soviet military kind, and heard them whiz over my head without warning and hit a wall just a couple dozen meters away. I've been robbed. I've been followed in the dark. To paraphrase a song, the news is only too happy to tell me about the latest murders. My just-burgled apartment got probed as I was going to bed. Said apartment was burglarized twice before I was able to move somewhere slightly safer... in the same complex.

I've also seen guns abruptly halt the flow of a bad situation. Most people don't like their odds of bullying or taking from someone by force when they find out that someone is armed. I do carry concealed when I feel the need. I don't see it as a security blanket or a penis extension; I see it as just a good idea, like wearing a seat belt. As with my car, I don't want to get in an accident, but I wear my seatbelt. I don't want my apartment to catch fire, but I have an extinguisher. I don't want to have a boating accident, but I wear a life jacket. I don't hope for someone to have a heart attack, but I'm currently researching AEDs online with intent to purchase.

I don't want to have to so much as draw down on someone, but I carry my pistol. Because I know the threat, and I know that it works.

Now, everything that I've seen proposed in the wake of mass shootings? I see a host of bad ideas put forth by people with no idea how guns even work. Most gun control proponents demonstrate their ignorance as flagrantly to me as Jenny McCarthy does hers about vaccines to you. Oh, they have their emotional pleas, and probably genuinely believe in their cause... but they are, from my point of view, dangerously wrong.

Because everything currently on the table as a "reasonable compromise"? Rodger got through it. He passed a background check. He took a Firearms Safety Test. He paid the DROS fee. He passed the safe handling test. He bought the state-approved lock. The guns and magazines he bought were approved by the state, and had the state-approved limit of capacity. He went through the waiting period to make sure he wasn't going to impulsively murder anyone.

We can see how that worked out.

And so, after all is said and done, people demand some kind of additional restriction on guns. They don't know how to go about it or what will actually work, but they want something, and fuck those fat inbred yokels jerking their micropeens to photoshopped pics of Obama being lynched, which is what gun owners are, amirite?

Awright. So. As a hobbyist, I'm annoyed. As a professional, I'm insulted.

As an average Joe, I'm fuckin' furious. Because I do have a need for guns, reinforced by experience time and again, at home and abroad. The inevitable gun control wank after a mass murder is like people arguing about whether I should be allowed to have my right arm, and under what circumstances. You can probably tell how willing I am to seriously entertain the point of view of those who believe I should give it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:04 pm

The gun control argument is irrelevant. This guy told us who he is and why he did it. If he didn't have a gun, he wouldn't have gone on a shooting rampage because that would've been impossible. But maybe he would've stalked women instead. Maybe he would've finally ended up in a relationship and abused his partner. Maybe he'd have turned on his parents like our old friend coconut. Maybe he would've become a serial rapist or even a serial killer. Plenty of those have preyed on women, many of them fuelled by a hatred of women.

And the thing is, he's not alone. We've all read the loveshy threads. Those guys didn't lick their sense of entitlement to women's bodies, the perceived status a relationship brings, and a combination wife/mommy to wash their underpants, make their dinners, and suck their cocks for them off the ground. It's all around us. The assholish sitcom dad inexplicably married to an attractive wife who never leaves him no matter how thoughtless and selfish he is. The nerdy hero who's awarded the girl after he saves the world. The Nice Guy who's so nice and who selflessly pines for the heroine, never breathing a word of his love for her, until she opens her eyes (after her jerkbag boyfriend hurts her) and sees what a Nice Guy was right there in front of her all along.

Most men never go as far as loveshyers or MRAs or Nice Guys TM. Most men know enough women in their lives to understand we're individuals and there's no Konami Code for getting sex or a relationship. Most men eventually see all that stuff as wish fulfillment and make believe. But we have to take a harder look at what we're teaching boys and girls about relationships, and we need to start getting other stories and other narratives out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:53 pm

Penguin wrote:
Because I do have a need for guns, reinforced by experience time and again, at home and abroad.

I know the gun control topic is mostly irrelevant (imo) but there is something I want to say on this topic and getting off-topic is kinda what we do here anyway...

I was on the fence about guns for a long time with a preference for pro-gun control ideology because the politically-minded people I hang out with are leftist hippy college students and of course they're pro-gun control. But in the last year I've seriously thought about gun control and reflected on what self-defense means to me for the first time in my life and I realized I support an individuals right to bear arms. The fact is I love those hippy college students but they are mostly white and middle class and gender-normative and come from privileged backgrounds where Mr. Policeman is their friend and is on their side and will help solve their problems and they just can't imagine a life where they would use a gun for anything but funsies.

Mr. Policeman is not everyone's friend. It sucks but especially if you are trans and/or poor and/or brown at best he probably doesn't give a shit and at worst you are a problem that must be corrected to him. You can not always rely on the police to save or protect you and sometimes you even need to protect yourself from them. The bottom line is there comes a point where you need to be able to protect yourself.

I've come out as genderqueer/trans in the last year and I don't always present as gender normative. I have never experienced hate-violence but in just a year since casually presenting as non-normative more I have heard enough threatening comments and felt threatened enough that I carry a knife and I want to try and get my concealed carry license. Unarmed, I've managed to wriggle out of plenty of situations where pulling a weapon would have just escalated things, yes. But hate-violence is different. Sometimes it is you or them.

Not only that but I live in an apartment with my best friends and my goddaughter who I love to death and if anyone would ever try and hurt them I want to be ready to protect them. Even if I fail at least I have the option of trying. I don't think that's an outrageous desire. Especially considering the fact that in the off-chance that calling 911 would be a practical way to deal with an invader or whatever I live in the fucking boondocks and the cops don't come for shit there.

I do feel like I have the right to be able to defend myself, my home, and my family and fuck anyone who tells me otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:24 am

Trouble with gun control in a country like the USA is that it would only disarm the law-abiding population, who use guns carefully and safely, keeping them under secure conditions and making sure nobody does anything stupid with them.

If they were to pass a law that bans guns, and offer an amnesty, the law abiding people will turn their guns in - they won't like it but they'll do it. The non-law abiding people will hide their guns, wait until the amnesty date has passed, and suddenly have a load of weapons that they can sell on the black market.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:42 am

I don't know if the debate is totally irrelevant. I guess I'll toss my lot in with the "no guns ever anymore please" hat but I know better than to think that's how humanity works. The part of the gun control debate that I always want to talk about is the culture surrounding it. I personally think guns are stupid since really they have a short list of uses and the first 7 are "kill shit" but I recognize them as objects used by humans to perform one of those uses. Those humans create a huge mythology around those objects, whether they like it or not, and eventually it becomes ingrained in the way we all perceive that object related to the rest of the world. At least in the slice of media that I consume, the people who are promoting gun rights do so in a way that make them sound like the last defense we have left in The Wasteland. I can't imagine that not having a huge effect on where guns, or even just violence, fall on someone's list of good ideas.

The same goes for Elliot "Two First Names" Rodger's dumbass echo chamber, where he was constantly bombarded with corroborating evidence that his perception of society and how it functions were 100% spot on. That likely led to him forgetting to put "don't kill people over anything" on his list of personal priorities.

I've lost whatever thought I had that connected those two but I think I think I was relating the loud "oh shit we're gonna die hurry and stockpile ammo" nonsense with the "women don't even want a nice guy, an 800pg essay by Fedora_420" nonsense
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:33 pm

As someone who is poor trans & chicano if I had a license to carry a concealed gun I would

but as it is now I carry a knife

The cops would murder me, or put me in solitary at least
the city I live in has a police involved shooting every week

with my fellow brown compadres wanting social welfare programs and jobs yet would kill a brother like me if given the chance, we are allies in a sense

white middle class college students with their academic discourse will never understand a goddamn thing about us, the people they study and try to make proper room to discourse for and include with proper terminology

because when it gets right down to it
my nonactivist, nonwhite, "ignorant" friends are more likely to stand up for me

the others will just post about it on facebook but at least they used correct terminology

my dead ass doesn't need a fucking asterisk
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:57 pm

Hawaiian Shirt wrote:
The same goes for Elliot "Two First Names" Rodger's dumbass echo chamber, where he was constantly bombarded with corroborating evidence that his perception of society and how it functions were 100% spot on.
Yeah, I haven't seen anyone talk about internet support groups and how they can be a double-edged sword in the wake of this case - just about the general perception that the internet is just "pffff whateverrrr" and people blow smoke on there all the time, and if someone (white, affluent) can carry on a nice polite five-minute convo with the cops then who cares if he posted about wanting to kill people on the internet.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:10 pm

Disco Stu wrote:
with my fellow brown compadres wanting social welfare programs and jobs yet would kill a brother like me if given the chance, we are allies in a sense

white middle class college students with their academic discourse will never understand a goddamn thing about us, the people they study and try to make proper room to discourse for and include with proper terminology

because when it gets right down to it
my nonactivist, nonwhite, "ignorant" friends are more likely to stand up for me

the others will just post about it on facebook but at least they used correct terminology

I agree that I will never understand. And I also will agree that the educated white middle class, without the actual experience of being marginalized and in a demographic that is targeted by police, lacks the necessary urgency. However, the more people are educated about social issues, the more people are likely to vote for legislative changes that will benefit those that are systemically screwed over.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:34 pm

Disco Stu wrote:
because when it gets right down to it
my nonactivist, nonwhite, "ignorant" friends are more likely to stand up for me

the others will just post about it on facebook but at least they used correct terminology

I've actually noticed this and it weirds the shit outta me. My hellbilly deluxe buddies might sling around terms like "faggot" and think I'm "weird" for wanting to bone a dude up the butt and for wearing dresses casually but when I'm in trouble for the most part it's them who come running to gather around me like a pack of buffalo, even if they need to come from the middle of Pennsyltucky to Philly to do it.

Even when we were all being terrible people doing terrible punk-ass shit we took care of each other in ways I know from experience a majority of my affluent college buddies wouldn't.

I went back to Pennsyltucky for the first time in a long time a week or so ago and it struck me not just because the friends I saw have gotten so much better and don't live that punk-ass life anymore and gotten clean/straight/whatever but they were still doing stuff like letting friends who were going through a rough patch and were homeless crash on their couches and eat their food. My bougie friends back here even though they use proper terminology on Facebook and are communists who love the working class so much thought that sounded crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:36 am

Eeveegou wrote:
Disco Stu wrote:
with my fellow brown compadres wanting social welfare programs and jobs yet would kill a brother like me if given the chance, we are allies in a sense

white middle class college students with their academic discourse will never understand a goddamn thing about us, the people they study and try to make proper room to discourse for and include with proper terminology

because when it gets right down to it
my nonactivist, nonwhite, "ignorant" friends are more likely to stand up for me

the others will just post about it on facebook but at least they used correct terminology

I agree that I will never understand. And I also will agree that the educated white middle class, without the actual experience of being marginalized and in a demographic that is targeted by police, lacks the necessary urgency. However, the more people are educated about social issues, the more people are likely to vote for legislative changes that will benefit those that are systemically screwed over.

you're so cute
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:11 am

Disco Stu wrote:


you're so cute

I took your life situation seriously.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:34 pm

I miss sex but I don't run out shooting people over it. Oh damn, has America ever noticed how many of their kids go on shooting sprees over random shit?

I'm remembering that camp in norway (or was it finland) where the guy strode in in a police outfit and started shooting everybody he saw. That was about thirty, and apparently one girl survived by hiding under the dead body of her friend.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:24 am

Here's a thought...maybe the USA should teach its children that they're not entitled to anything - a job, a girlfriend, money, a big house, a car, a private jet, nothing except maybe a roof over your head and food (if you're lucky...some people don't even have that). Everything else is either a gift, or something you have to earn. Then they might just grow up not feeling entitled to all sorts of things that half the world doesn't have, and won't go batshit crazy when they don't get it handed to them on a plate.

That guy should go and listen to The Smiths, and find out just how not the only one in that same situation he is.
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PostSubject: Re: Apparently not getting laid justifies shooting sprees now   Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:22 am

How about we don't pretend that America is some backward place that teaches its children (oh heaven forfend we specify MEN HERE even though the shooter was motivated by misogynistic feelings of entitlement to women's bodies) that they're entitled to anything their hearts desire, as if Europe is oh so much better? Especially when there's a very strong cultural narrative in American society that you have to work for everything and accepting government handouts is for Commies. You know, the one that keeps people in minimum wage jobs dependent on welfare and/or forced to work sixteen hours a day and never see their families because they don't actually earn enough to live on, because being successful is just a matter of working harder.

Seriously, could you be any more tone deaf here?
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