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Mikey Go WOOGA
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:18 pm

>mfw no one has called someone "honey" in a condescending context yet.

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The Scientist
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:08 am

WD40 wrote:
Seriously, Rowling is, was and always will be a poor writer. How did you expect the series to go on?

This.

You're right, of course, but somehow, I was expecting an improvement and not, as cracked.com has it, a totally surprisingly twist ending in which (GASP!) Harry kills Voldie and a lot of random shit happens, because....well, wizards.


The whole series would have been so much better if Neville had turned out to be the chosen one, instead of just staying the resident doofus.


Also, yay, I hadn't seen Pasty! Commodus in many years.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:55 am

Quote :
Case in point: "Harry Potter". The last two books, even the fifth book to an extent (the character of Tonks- given her ultimate contribution to the story, abuse of caps lock, and "Snape's Worst Memory", anyone?), seem to have been ghostwritten by a fanbrat. But since they exist as actual books instead of fics, we can't say crap about them and must rip into any fic author that doesn't adhere to them. And really, Rowling's become a fanbrat herself- of her own work.

Um... isn't hating an entire book because of one character (or a pairing you don't agree with) a bit of a fanbrattish move itself? On that note, I think you have Stephanie Meyer and J.K.Rowling mixed up. Fanbrat's can't take criticism and need their friend's to back them up (Meyer and her brother), while real writer's can (Rowling).

Plus, how did the last two books seem like badfic's? I mean yes, she killed off quite a few characters and, yes, she did make some bad choices in canon pairings (Personally, I didn't care but a lot of people seemed to think that). Other than that, only part of the ending left something to desired but otherwise they were just as good as the other one's.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:42 am

4shadowedice4 wrote:
(Personally, I didn't care but a lot of people seemed to think that).
That's what you're doing wrong, then. Clearly the most important part of these books was the romance.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:50 am

Lurv wrote:
4shadowedice4 wrote:
(Personally, I didn't care but a lot of people seemed to think that).
That's what you're doing wrong, then. Clearly the most important part of these books was the romance.

Oh yes, Harry spending seven years of his life trying (and eventually succeeding) to kill Voldemort has nothing to do with the plot.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:37 pm

4shadowedice4 wrote:
Um... isn't hating an entire book because of one character (or a pairing you don't agree with) a bit of a fanbrattish move itself?(...) Fanbrat's can't take criticism

You answered you own question there. The OP posted for all of 24 hours, then went YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO CRITICIZE ME (and I wish I was paraphrasing), and never showed up again.
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Mikey Go WOOGA
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:25 pm

Quote :
I mean yes, she killed off quite a few characters and, yes, she did make some bad choices in canon pairings (Personally, I didn't care but a lot of people seemed to think that). Other than that, only part of the ending left something to desired but otherwise they were just as good as the other one's.

So she randomly killed people to create drama because she's not a good enough writer to do it correctly, paired up characters in nonsensical/irrelevant ways, AND the ending sucked?

Yeah, sounds like a great book. Colbert
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:28 am

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
Quote :
I mean yes, she killed off quite a few characters and, yes, she did make some bad choices in canon pairings (Personally, I didn't care but a lot of people seemed to think that). Other than that, only part of the ending left something to desired but otherwise they were just as good as the other one's.

So she randomly killed people to create drama because she's not a good enough writer to do it correctly, paired up characters in nonsensical/irrelevant ways, AND the ending sucked?

Yeah, sounds like a great book. Colbert

Most of deaths were explained properly and they were at war so someone had to die at some point (Personally, I think she should have left Dumbledore alone, but whatever).

Some of the canon pairing's had already been mentioned and/or shown before that so it's not like they came out of nowhere (Except Draco's wife, I have no idea where she came from).

The epilogue was the only thing I had a real problem with. If Rowling had made it a bit longer and given the Golden Trio's kids more personality, we might not be drowning in next-gen badfic.

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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:07 am

4shadowedice4 wrote:
Some of the canon pairing's had already been mentioned and/or shown before that so it's not like they came out of nowhere (Except Draco's wife, I have no idea where she came from).

Yeah, but it would have been less realistic for them to all hook up with people they knew in school.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:35 am

Rowling's a "poor" writer? Really? Honestly, the worst that can be said is that she's pretty good with occasional dives into mediocrity. Usually when people talk about her being a bad writer, it's all because "she killed my favorite side character!" or that really corny epilogue.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:32 am

Penguin wrote:
Rowling's a "poor" writer? Really? Honestly, the worst that can be said is that she's pretty good with occasional dives into mediocrity. Usually when people talk about her being a bad writer, it's all because "she killed my favorite side character!" or that really corny epilogue.

This.

She has her moments of utter cheese ("several sunlit days"? Come on!) but overall her stories are enjoyable and well thought-out.

As much as I hated the OBWHF ending* I still think it's an awesome series.


*Harry/Ron/Hermione is the only thing that makes sense. I ship trio!
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:41 am

grmblfjx wrote:
4shadowedice4 wrote:
Some of the canon pairing's had already been mentioned and/or shown before that so it's not like they came out of nowhere (Except Draco's wife, I have no idea where she came from).

Yeah, but it would have been less realistic for them to all hook up with people they knew in school.

I don't know, the wizarding community isn't that big and nearly every wizard in the UK went to Hogwarts, unless you hook up with somebody from a different country (e.g Bill and Fleur), noticably older/younger than you (e.g Lupin and Tonks) or Grab yeself a muggle (Example strangly absent) marrying somebody you went to school with (The Potters and The Weasleys) is prolly pretty common.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:30 am

It's still a load of bull.

Hey, what about Lara Su from Archie Sonic? Time-travelling teenager from the future, daughter of Knuckles and Julie-Su (so now they have to get together), she can now use Chaos Control, apparently she can defeat Shadow AND Enerjak (see Sonic Universe) she's been some sort of goddess, a female Guardian, and is just generally popular with EVERYBODY, from royal twins to everybody and can kick all available ass just like daddy used to do.

I HATE HER.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:02 am

Somath Cegem wrote:
grmblfjx wrote:
4shadowedice4 wrote:
Some of the canon pairing's had already been mentioned and/or shown before that so it's not like they came out of nowhere (Except Draco's wife, I have no idea where she came from).

Yeah, but it would have been less realistic for them to all hook up with people they knew in school.

I don't know, the wizarding community isn't that big and nearly every wizard in the UK went to Hogwarts, unless you hook up with somebody from a different country (e.g Bill and Fleur), noticably older/younger than you (e.g Lupin and Tonks) or Grab yeself a muggle (Example strangly absent) marrying somebody you went to school with (The Potters and The Weasleys) is prolly pretty common.

Yeah. Plus you have to figure, how many wizard schools are in the UK? It seemed like you had to have some pull to go to school somewhere besides Hogwarts (I think I remember Draco bragging about how he would've gone to Beuxbatons). Even if you weren't classmates, if you married within the wizard community, you were probably marrying a Hogwarts alumnus.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
It's still a load of bull.

Ah, the classic "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CAN'T BE RIGHT LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" rebuttal.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:41 am

Penguin wrote:
Somath Cegem wrote:
I don't know, the wizarding community isn't that big and nearly every wizard in the UK went to Hogwarts

Even if you weren't classmates, if you married within the wizard community, you were probably marrying a Hogwarts alumnus.

Ok, let me rephrase. It would have been unrealistic if everyone had married someone we know from their school time.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:24 pm

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Hey, what about Lara Su from Archie Sonic? Time-travelling teenager from the future, daughter of Knuckles and Julie-Su (so now they have to get together), she can now use Chaos Control, apparently she can defeat Shadow AND Enerjak (see Sonic Universe) she's been some sort of goddess, a female Guardian, and is just generally popular with EVERYBODY, from royal twins to everybody and can kick all available ass just like daddy used to do.
Archie Sonic is one big fanfic soap opera anyway.

The thing that bugs me the most about the canon is the sheer amount of echidna characters, since Knuckles' civilization was stablished early on in the games as extinct.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:00 pm

Except for the brilliant comic scenes featuring Sue Sylvester, Glee watches like an ordinary high school badfic by a left-leaning fourteen-year-old who's into musical theater and is suffering through a teacher crush.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:39 pm

littledorrit wrote:
Glee watches like an ordinary high school badfic by a left-leaning fourteen-year-old who's into musical theater and is suffering through a teacher crush.

You just described Ryan Murphy. Except he's not fourteen, he's forty.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:36 pm

Superman fell face-first into this trap and stayed there for years.

DC and WB made an arrangement back in 1991 that they would time Lois & Clark's wedding in the comics with the wedding on what was to be Lois & Clark, assuming the show lasted that long. So to kill time before the show's debut, we got the "Death and Return" event. One small problem: as time went on, DC decided they didn't want them getting married after all. Their solution? Why, have Lois up and decide she doesn't like him being Superman, have her hook up with a scummy ex-boyfriend (who had been introduced during the "death" event as a rebound romance), have her blame Clark for said boyfriend's death and accuse Clark of loving being Superman more than her, have her leave Metropolis to regain herself, and imply none too subtly that it was all Superman's fault for being Superman. Then WB decided they were ready to do the marriage, and DC tried to back out of the bargain. No dice; WB made them scrap a year or so of story plans to time the wedding with Lois & Clark.

From the beginning of the marriage, DC was looking for excuses to break it up. A 2000 revamp proposal by Mark Waid, Grant Morrison, and Mark Millar would have been a proto-"One More Day," with Lois & Clark's marriage being wiped from existence entirely by Mxyzptlk in a botched attempt to save Lois from fatal poisoning by Brainiac. It didn't take (Paul Levitz had it wedged in his head that the "S" would sell itself and big-name creators weren't welcome), but we got a LOT of stories where Lois would be abusive and hateful to Clark just for being Superman. Then, following an interlude where the Parasite kidnapped and impersonated Lois -- and really, you couldn't tell the difference -- DC used the "Our Worlds at War" event to try and drive a wedge between Lois and Clark, with her leaving him under the pretense of spending time with her mother, writing journal entries about how much she hated him for saving Wonder Woman's people from being slaughtered instead of babysitting her crooked dad (who faked his death and became Luthor's toady), and leaving him Dear John messages telling him she wasn't coming back. Then, when the Cir-El Supergirl showed up claiming to be Superman's daughter from the future, Lois immediately accuses him of cheating with the women in the JLA and slagging them all off as whores. It reached a point where incoming writer Chuck Austen decided Superman would be better off with Lana Lang...and he proceeded to write Lana as a slutty homewrecker who'd leave her panties in Clark's bed for Lois to find.

The entire time this was going on, Superman was portrayed as being whiny and emotionally compromised, unable to do ANYTHING without Lois around. Seriously, half of a 4-part story was devoted to him crying and smashing asteroids because "I LOST LOIS!" The reason why this was going on? DC wanted to return to the Love Triangle. The writers were adamant about restoring it, and the theory was if the marriage was shown to be miserable and unhappy, the fans would understand why the Love Triangle needed to be brought back. All they succeeded in doing was making people hate Lois and want Superman with anybody else. (It's why you have such vocal Superman/Lana Lang and Superman/Wonder Woman shippers these days.) DC also argued that Lois' bad behavior was simply proof that she was a strong woman akin to Myrna Loy in the Thin Man movies, and that Superman simply wasn't man enough for her. Aside from a tiny, devoted cult of Lois fans, nobody bought their bullshit, and Lois earned the nickname "Superbitch." Far from convincing fans that the Love Triangle was the solution to all the books' problems, they actually convinced fans that a full-blown reboot was inevitable to fix the mess that had been made. Indeed, subsequent writers never even tried to resolve the problem, choosing either to pretend it never happened or to sideline the marriage in favor of pursuing other storylines.

Lo and behold, the fans ended up being right: a full-blown reboot is in progress as we speak, for not just Superman but the entire DCU. So really, the Superman creative teams shot themselves in the foot. Let's hope their successors have learned from their mistakes.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:25 pm

I love reading about what's happening in comics toady.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:21 pm

Aggie wrote:
I love reading about what's happening in comics toady.

The sad thing is, it's often more entertaining than the comics themselves.

I haven't dropped reading comics entirely, but I sure read a hell of a lot less than I did ten years ago. I sure have no intention of reading the new Superman reboot. I was there for everything Mr. Comic Book describes (I bought Superman every week from 1991-2004), and it still sounds better than "We give up. We're resetting to the whole Triangle For Two Superdickery status quo."
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:14 am

Trioculus wrote:
Aggie wrote:
I love reading about what's happening in comics toady.

The sad thing is, it's often more entertaining than the comics themselves.

I haven't dropped reading comics entirely, but I sure read a hell of a lot less than I did ten years ago. I sure have no intention of reading the new Superman reboot. I was there for everything Mr. Comic Book describes (I bought Superman every week from 1991-2004), and it still sounds better than "We give up. We're resetting to the whole Triangle For Two Superdickery status quo."

Mine is the exact opposite. I'm interested to see what this reboot does. If it sucks...well, we're no worse off than we were beforehand. The Superman books have been mediocre to bad for years on end. If the reboot's good, if it puts some new life into the franchise, then it'll be worthwhile.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with reboots, per se. I just want them to be done well. (Which, of course, immediately disqualifies "One More Day/Brand New Day.") And I will say this: Every incarnation of a long-running character has an expiration date. Sooner or later, that version's going to run out of steam or need to be updated. And if said version self-destructs due to stupid decisions, character assassination, pursuing bad event-gimmicks instead of actual storytelling, and a pointed refusal to learn from any of its past mistakes, I'd say it's permissible to admit you've hit a dead end and a clean sweep is in order. All that matters is that the reboot be a quality product and that it learns from the failings of the past. That's really all one can ask for.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:34 am

I like the idea of reboots, but I doubt this one will be to my liking.

Some of the new costumes are cute though.

Also: Why do comic book companies hate marriage so much?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:38 am

Isn't Liefeld contributing to the reboot? Or is this just hearsay?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:08 am

Reepicheep-chan wrote:
I like the idea of reboots, but I doubt this one will be to my liking.

Some of the new costumes are cute though.

Also: Why do comic book companies hate marriage so much?

Marriage is kind of final, isn't it? A nice little love triangle doesn't work when two of those involved are married. Otherwise it would be cheating, and that's sinful.

I've only read a couple of Superman comics, but to me, Superman is rather boring. I do love all the Superman/Batman crossovers, though. Supes and Bats make a very good, funny team, even if the plot sometimes grates.

I'm looking forward to the reboot. Smallville was some kind of reboot, and I was unexpectedly charmed by it (the first four seasons, that is). I'm interested to see what new writers come up with, with a new setting and a new interpretation of the whole mythos.
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