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 When canon starts to resemble badfic

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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:42 pm

Every glamor crime/medical/cop show ever?

I'm the only person to have ever thought of House that way, it seems. I think I only ever watched a single episode, but I didn't even need that to know his MO.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:40 am

Shubby the Lurkette wrote:
o.O You're kidding, right? They didn't really do that to Spiderman, right? *googles* Oh dear glod. I really need to start reading comics that came out this century.
.

This comic sums it all up.

I wouldn't be still foaming at the mouth as much if they hadn't also decide to get rid of May Parker as Spider-Girl. I want my Peter/Mary Jane love someplace people, who are you denying me this?! And what's wrong with Arana staying as she was! I liked her as she was!

/fangirl rant
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:50 am

Anita Blake, anyone? It started out as a quite amusing Buffy clone and ended up as Were-animal porn.

Anne Rice also comes to mind. I never liked her writing style, but Interview, The Vamp Lestat and Queen of the Damned were pretty good. The rest, however, she fucked up her own characters because she had a change of Faith.

If Wolverine was a Stu, what about Storm in the hands of Chris Claremont? Everyone wanted her, and she beat everyone, which made everyone else want her MORE.

Actually, I don't think we hate fanbrats for taking canon and twisting it. I read one enormously long fanfic inspiried by the title Memnoch the Devil (the book wasn't out yet) and it was completely different from canon, and loads better than anything Anne Rice ever came up with. I hate Rice for screwing up her own story, not the fans for trying to salvage her original characters and doing something good with it.

It's the same with Harry Potter. I really liked the first four books, and still do. I didn't like Rowlings decision to hook up Hermione with Ron because it wasn't logical to me, but then, they were her characters and if she wants them to be shipped, fine. But I don't mind fangirls changing the canon, as long as they do it in a plausible way.

The problem with fanbrats is not so much that they change canon, but that they put it like their way is the only way it should be interpreted, the way it was ACTUALLY interpreted and meant by the author. So if the author herself (or himself) starts acting like that, the solution is simple: I don't buy the book and visit the nearest lifejournal or fan rec page. But since opinions always differ and lots of people still idolize Rice and Rowling for the decisions they've made in their plot, well...When is an author a fanbrat, exactly?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:41 pm

Tarzan by ER Burroughs

La, the Oparian, Queen and High Priestess of the degraded remnants of the oldest civilization upon earth. When Atlantis, with all her mighty cities and her cultivated fields and her great commerce and culture and riches sank into the sea long ages since, she took with her all but a handful of her colonists working the vast gold mines of Central Africa. From these and their degraded slaves and a later intermixture of the blood of the anthropoids sprung the gnarled men of Opar; but by some queer freak of fate, aided by natural selection, the old Atlantean strain had remained pure and undegraded in the females descended from a single princess of the royal house of Atlantis who had been in Opar at the time of the great catastrophe. Such was La.

Burning with white-hot anger was the High Priestess, her heart a seething, molten mass of hatred for Tarzan of the Apes. The zeal of the religious fanatic whose altar has been desecrated was triply enhanced by the rage of a woman scorned. Twice had she thrown her heart at the feet of the godlike ape-man and twice had she been repulsed. La knew that she was beautiful--and she was beautiful, not by the standards of prehistoric Atlantis alone, but by those of modern times was La physically a creature of perfection. Before Tarzan came that first time to Opar, La had never seen a human male other than the grotesque and knotted men of her clan. With one of these she must mate sooner or later that the direct line of high priestesses might not be broken, unless Fate should bring other men to Opar. Before Tarzan came upon his first visit, La had had no thought that such men as he existed, for she knew only her hideous little priests and the bulls of the tribe of great anthropoids that had dwelt from time immemorial in and about Opar, until they had come to be looked upon almost as equals by the Oparians. Among the legends of Opar were tales of godlike men of the olden time and of black men who had come more recently; but these latter had been enemies who killed and robbed. And, too, these legends always held forth the hope that some day that nameless continent from which their race had sprung, would rise once more out of the sea and with slaves at the long sweeps would send her carven, gold-picked galleys forth to succor the long-exiled colonists.

The coming of Tarzan had aroused within La's breast the wild hope that at last the fulfillment of this ancient prophecy was at hand; but more strongly still had it aroused the hot fires of love in a heart that never otherwise would have known the meaning of that all-consuming passion, for such a wondrous creature as La could never have felt love for any of the repulsive priests of Opar. Custom, duty and religious zeal might have commanded the union; but there could have been no love on La's part. She had grown to young womanhood a cold and heartless creature, daughter of a thousand other cold, heartless, beautiful women who had never known love. And so when love came to her it liberated all the pent passions of a thousand generations, transforming La into a pulsing, throbbing volcano of desire, and with desire thwarted this great force of love and gentleness and sacrifice was transmuted by its own fires into one of hatred and revenge.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:09 pm

WD40 wrote:
Seriously, Rowling is, was and always will be a poor writer.
Try telling her hoards of rabid fanbrats that, though thank you for saying it anyway.

Unfortunately, Rowling, JKR, however-you-wanna-call-her may not have written another book (let's hope she never makes good on her threats* to do so), but that hasn't stopped her from inflicting her self-proclaimed "gift" in other ways. I may have missed it, but nobody seems to have mentioned the "prequel for charity". Where James and Sirius, rocking "Order of the Phoenix" T-shirts, are pulled over by a cop and spout slang that wasn't around in the late '70s. Sounds like your classic badfic, but it was indeed written by JKR herself. Though for what it's worth it has been mostly forgotten except by the Sirius/James-shipping fanbrats who see it as "validation" for their precious pairing.

As for some of the other things, yes, how "canon" is one supposed to consider the "Fatal Fury" animes anyway? Of course, if the animes didn't exist, "Fatal Fury" would probably have far less fanbrats (most of them have never played the games or are even aware the animes were based on a game). On that same wavelength, are any of the Mario cartoons (both American and Japanese) supposed to be canon, especially "The Great Mission to Rescue Princess Peach"? And yes, this past season of "Criminal Minds" was crap and felt more like "watching" a series of badfics than actual episodes of the show, for the reasons the OP stated and more (especially what they did to JJ and Prentiss both on- and off-screen). I doubt they'll be able to recover from all that, especially if Hotch doesn't come back.

If I must give an example unrelated to any previous posts, how about all of "The Facts of Life" after the girls graduated. The boarding school setting made sense, but, well, if I can say one thing in Rowling's favor it's that she didn't subsequently have Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny (maybe Luna and/or Neville, too) move in with one of their professors and open a cafe together (and of course said cafe burns down and they open a store selling tacky knick-knacks). In other words, no reason for the characters to go on living together and for us to follow them into their business ventures except that the show was still making money for the network.



*Threats that alway come when a "Twilight" movie is released and all hype is on it, go figure.


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Jay/Cris
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:24 am

kleine_kat wrote:
If Wolverine was a Stu, what about Storm in the hands of Chris Claremont? Everyone wanted her, and she beat everyone, which made everyone else want her MORE.

Proving that, once again, a canonical Sue is not necessarily bad for the narrative. Claremont provided us with an immensely popular character that experienced plenty of character growth, evolving from a naive girl from Africa that liked to prance around in the buff to a powerful woman that led an America-based team, at some point even without her powers. Considering the fact that it's a superhero-comic in the eighties, right around before the effects of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns started to kick in, I'd say that as far as Sues and Stus within this genre go, you might have better ones to pick.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:31 am

Jay/Cris wrote:

Proving that, once again, a canonical Sue is not necessarily bad for the narrative. Claremont provided us with an immensely popular character that experienced plenty of character growth, evolving from a naive girl from Africa that liked to prance around in the buff to a powerful woman that led an America-based team, at some point even without her powers. Considering the fact that it's a superhero-comic in the eighties, right around before the effects of Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns started to kick in, I'd say that as far as Sues and Stus within this genre go, you might have better ones to pick.

Depends. If you liked Storm, that was good. I hated her guts because of her Sueism. The fact that she was popular and well-develloped actually doesn't make her any different from other canon Sues, loads of whom are revered by the masses. I think Claremont's Storm is the perfect Sue in canon. The only reason I STILL bought all those paperback anthologies is because she features in pretty neat storylines, and I prefer a Sueish Storm over an even more Sueish Jean Grey.
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Lapin
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:32 pm

The thing is that Storm is actually interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:54 am

Lapin wrote:
The thing is that Storm is actually interesting.

Ah, the standard reply of every fan! I don't think so. Sorry, I don't. I just don't. Sure, she has some cool storylines, but most of it comes down to how awesome she is and how everybody loves and respects her, especially her most dire enemies.

Storm, like Jean Grey, keeps getting more powers 'because they are part of her weather-changing abilities'. She is all-powerful but suffers from a bad case of claustrophobia because of some bad trauma in her youth. Her parents are dead. She is a beautiful, tall, regal-looking negro with white hair and blue cat eyes, that become white when she manipulates the weather. Or her clothes. Or the local wildlife. You want lightning in a tunnel 5000 meter below ground? Hey, no problem for Storm, oh wait, no, she's battling her claustrophobia, so she can't act.

Ok, that's not entirely fair, because in later installments she more or less conquered that fear. Although it plays up at very convenient moments.

I'm not saying she's a bad character--again, Wolverine is just as bad, and I love him, as is Jean Grey, whom I am so sick and tired of I wish she'd just stay dead for once, but I just don't think she is at all interesting. Sorry. My humble opinion.

Although...there is this one arc when she becomes a child again and meets Gambit. I liked that, because she was rendered helpless, and that, I thought, was a very good move. Unfortunately she got all her power back and returned to being the same Sue she was before.

Until some reboot a couple of years ago. Was that Ultimate X-men? The whole 30 years or so was summarized in a 6-part comic series, with Wolverine actually working for Magneto; Storm, Cyclops, Jean, Pjotr and Iceman being about 19, and Xavier having this really cool sense of humor. I loved Storm there, because she was insecure and was still experimenting with her powers. But I'm digressing here.

You like Storm, that's cool. To me she's an insufferable Sue (most of the time).
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:24 am

kleine_kat wrote:
Storm, like Jean Grey, keeps getting more powers 'because they are part of her weather-changing abilities'. She is all-powerful but suffers from a bad case of claustrophobia because of some bad trauma in her youth. Her parents are dead. She is a beautiful, tall, regal-looking negro with white hair and blue cat eyes, that become white when she manipulates the weather. Or her clothes. Or the local wildlife. You want lightning in a tunnel 5000 meter below ground? Hey, no problem for Storm, oh wait, no, she's battling her claustrophobia, so she can't act.

Ok, that's not entirely fair, because in later installments she more or less conquered that fear. Although it plays up at very convenient moments.

So, wait, what? The fact the author has actively given her a flaw makes her more Sueish? What?

kleine_kat wrote:
You like Storm, that's cool. To me she's an insufferable Sue (most of the time).

The problem is that you're arguing two separate things simultaneously, darling: 'Storm = a Sue' and 'Storm = insufferable'. While I agree somewhat with the former, I disagree with the latter, but you are, of course, entitled to your opinion. It is entirely possible to adore Storm while conceding that she's a Sue. Sues are often a hallmark of bad writing, but not always: sometimes the narrative actually does interesting things with them. Look at Mary Poppins, for example. You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:56 am

Jay/Cris wrote:
You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.

Eh, yes, that's the whole point I'm trying to make?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:15 am

Jay/Cris wrote:
you're arguing two separate things simultaneously, darling:

I love the fact that you call people "darling". It's either super camp, or super condescending, or both, and I love it.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:48 am

kleine_kat wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.

Eh, yes, that's the whole point I'm trying to make?

...Then why on Earth do you insist on reiterating it?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:10 am

Jay/Cris wrote:
kleine_kat wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.

Eh, yes, that's the whole point I'm trying to make?

...Then why on Earth do you insist on reiterating it?

Some people like the sound of their own, erm, text.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:17 am

Clack clack clack clack?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:42 am

Jay/Cris wrote:
kleine_kat wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.

Eh, yes, that's the whole point I'm trying to make?

...Then why on Earth do you insist on reiterating it?

Because I was under the impression that you didn't think Storm a Sue, but that was obviously my bad.

Also, because yes darling, I just LOVE the sound of my own text.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:15 am

Oooh. It's a "darling" shoot-out.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:22 am

Wait, wait, they might break out the "sweetheart"!
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:42 am

Sure thing, doll.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:42 am

Personally, I'm more of a "poppet" kind of girl.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:21 pm

kleine_kat wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
kleine_kat wrote:
Jay/Cris wrote:
You say Claremont's Storm is, for you, the example of a Canon Sue. I say, fine, but I will modify that into saying that Storm is an example of a well-executed Canon Sue.

Eh, yes, that's the whole point I'm trying to make?

...Then why on Earth do you insist on reiterating it?

Because I was under the impression that you didn't think Storm a Sue, but that was obviously my bad.

No sweat, dearheart. We're all allowed a small mistake now and then.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Now now loves, no need to get the big guns out.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:40 pm

No one's broken out the "pet" yet, so I think we're still safe.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:24 pm

You're so silly, baby.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:06 pm

Only around you, kitten.
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