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I.V. VonBischoffs



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PostSubject: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:04 pm

It's always bugged me how just because something's canon, one is expected to love and accept it. I mean, we go on and on about how fanbrats "desecrate" our fandoms, but what about when the actual creators, authors, producers, etc. do it?

Case in point: "Harry Potter". The last two books, even the fifth book to an extent (the character of Tonks- given her ultimate contribution to the story, abuse of caps lock, and "Snape's Worst Memory", anyone?), seem to have been ghostwritten by a fanbrat. But since they exist as actual books instead of fics, we can't say crap about them and must rip into any fic author that doesn't adhere to them. And really, Rowling's become a fanbrat herself- of her own work.

It could be and has been also argued that JJ Abrams and Michael Bay are just glorified fanbrats, but meanwhile we're supposed to accept their contributions to the "Star Trek" and "Transformers" fandoms as "canon". Same with Masami Obarai and "Fatal Fury' (and by extension, "King of Fighters").

And WTF was up with the storylne of "Super Mario Sunshine"? Same with "Super Paper Mario". Nintendo, please stop feeding the Peach/Bowser fans!

Oh yeah, and that Ashley chick this past season of "Criminal Minds". There's a canon Sue if I ever saw one. Her, the Reid probably going completely insane storyline, and all the backstage drama really made the show less enjoyable this season, and damn it I don't want those things reflected in fics I read.





Last edited by I.V. VonBischoffs on Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Exodia's Right Leg
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:24 pm

No.
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I.V. VonBischoffs



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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:37 pm

Exodia's Right Leg wrote:
No.

Oh, that contributed so much to this thread. Rolling Eyes And what's that supposed to mean, anyway?

Can we stay on topic, please? The topic is just what it says in the subject- when canon itself starts to resemble badfic. Denying that it does or whatever was meant to be accomplished by simply posting the word "no" is not.


Last edited by I.V. VonBischoffs on Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:35 pm

Belongs in "Original Fiction" if it's like this.

And you're expected to spork it yourself. Pick one and spork away.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:43 pm

Hey, canon can suck too. And have Mary Sues. I mean, look at what happened to that publicity whore Wolverine for a while.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:52 pm

Ok I don't like the last Harry Potter books much either, but geez.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:38 pm

Still, it's true. Canon characters can be Sues. Just because somebody's getting paid doesn't make them any less glittery. Like... like that little bastard Chris Thorndyke from Sonic X. The most useless little brat who ever waltzed into the Sonic fandom and took all the good parts from the canon characters while being a whiny little bastard.

They become what is known as The Scrappy. They're still pretty much Sues and we still hate them but just by another name.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:32 pm

Seasons six and seven of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Good god they were dire.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:41 pm

The Earth's Children series, particularly the last three books, when it went from entertaining prehistoric fiction into Godmode Sue and endless repetition. Book five was mostly PWP. Book six is more NP-NP-NP (No Plot, No Porn, No Point), aka Why the Fuck Did I Spend All That Money on That Stupid Book.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:42 pm

>Thread about when canon of a particular work of fiction resembles badfic
>No one mentions Twilight


I don't know if it's because you're morons or if it's because it's too obvious of an answer.

Also, all of DBGT. That idiot girl, Super Saiyan 4, that whole every bad guy from the entire series returning for one episode, and that retarded spiel with the broken Dragon Balls that made no sense because they first set of Dragon Balls died with Kami and was replaced by Dende, and they used the Namekian set half of the time anyway, so there would be no "evil build up from multiple wishes" or whatever bullshit they pulled out of their ass to explain it.
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I.V. VonBischoffs



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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:56 pm

Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
>Thread about when canon of a particular work of fiction resembles badfic
>No one mentions Twilight


I don't know if it's because you're morons or if it's because it's too obvious of an answer.

I'd say the latter. Let's face it, "Twilight" is a far too easy target for a lot of things.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:31 am

Cyberwulf wrote:
Seasons six and seven of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Good god they were dire.

There should be a name for this kind of thing. "Didn't Get Cancelled Syndrome," perhaps? Whedon ended season 5 with Buffy's death because the series might be cancelled and he apparently wanted a firm ending, only to have it renewed on a different network.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:57 am

Isn't Jumping the Shark already the term for this?

There are definitely canons that overstay their welcome, but I feel like this topic makes it very easy for us to show our I-know-better-than-the-author type fanbrat sides.

Case in point: the OP
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I.V. VonBischoffs



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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:19 am

Miss Prince wrote:

There are definitely canons that overstay their welcome, but I feel like this topic makes it very easy for us to show our I-know-better-than-the-author type fanbrat sides.

Case in point: the OP

But it isn't fair that the authors can get away with the same stuff that fans automatically get labeled fanbrats and get sporked over just because they are the author. Rowling for example could've written mpreg and inserted random crossover characters into her books, and we would've been expected to accept them and been label fanbrats for not accepting and going along with them.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:23 am

I.V. VonBischoffs wrote:

But it isn't fair that the authors can get away with the same stuff that fans automatically get labeled fanbrats and get sporked over just because they are the author.

Yes, yes it is.

1. It's there work, they want to fuck it up and screw over there source of income, more fool them.

2. We as consumers have the amazing power over authors who go off the rails, it's called not buying their shit, we have no such powers over fan brats who will keep pumping out crap simply for there own amusement.

3. I have yet to come across an author who has decided half way through a story to throw all semblence of a plot out the window, turn all the characters gay and shift the setting to a high school and get away with it.
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I.V. VonBischoffs



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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:47 am

Somath Cegem wrote:
currywineI have yet to come across an author who has decided half way through a story to throw all semblence of a plot out the window, turn all the characters gay and shift the setting to a high school and get away with it.

But they can get away with Sues/Stus (as both Harley and myself have mentioned), they can abuse the caps lock, and can shove any two characters together with no good explanation or build-up.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:11 am

I.V. VonBischoffs wrote:
It's always bugged me how just because something's canon, one is expected to love and accept it. I mean, we go on and on about how fanbrats "desecrate" our fandoms, but what about when the actual creators, authors, producers, etc. do it?

Step forward George Lucas.

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
Still, it's true. Canon characters can be Sues. Just because somebody's getting paid doesn't make them any less glittery.

What you're missing out on is that a Mary Sue is not the be all and end all of badfic. They are, in fact, literary devices and can be good when used correctly.

For example:

Batman, Sherlock Holmes and, for the minimalist fandom crowd: Menolly and Piemur from the Dragons of Pern series.


Mikey Go WOOGA wrote:
>Thread about when canon of a particular work of fiction resembles badfic
>No one mentions Twilight

I read the thread as refering to something that started good and then wend bad. Twilight was always bad. But hay, that's just me.

I.V. VonBischoffs wrote:

But it isn't fair that the authors can get away with the same stuff that fans automatically get labeled fanbrats and get sporked over just because they are the author.

>Implying that authors get away with this stuff. [/Mikey]

George Lucas has alienated half of his devoted fanbase with his raving lunacy. Genndy Tartakovsky is easily a better writer/producer of Star Wars stuff than the series creator, and you'll find a lot of support of this viewpoint in the fandom.

Spiderman fans hate Joe Quesada.

There is no consensus over what is the 'best' Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy format. (Protip: You're wrong if you like anything other than the original radio play [/elitist][/endslashtags])


As much as I enjoy this, I can't help but notice that the prime example, the original post, revolves over how people, not just the OP, were angry at how bad the Harry Potter series went.

Seriously, Rowling is, was and always will be a poor writer. How did you expect the series to go on?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:38 pm

I.V. VonBischoffs wrote:
Rowling for example could've written mpreg and inserted random crossover characters into her books, and we would've been expected to accept them and been label fanbrats for not accepting and going along with them.
Do authors who put 'ignores epilogue' in the pre-fic notes really catch all that much crap for it?
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:07 pm

I definitely feel this way about Abrams!Trek. Two Spocks and a Sarek was nice, as were all the other hot boys. And the explosions were pretty. And there were spiffy-lookin' spaceships. But in general, that movie was much more like high-budget fanfic than it was Star Trek. It was fun, and good as far as it went, but I don't think it really counts.

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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:59 am

I.V. VonBischoffs wrote:
Exodia's Right Leg wrote:
No.

Oh, that contributed so much to this thread. Rolling Eyes And what's that supposed to mean, anyway?
It means that I don't agree with your post at all. First of all, with the idea that "we're supposed to accept canon and love everything the authors make". There's a reason why we have the Original Fiction, Movies and Games sections, after all.

There's one difference, though - canon is all that we have. It's the base upon which we build fanfic, even fanfic that's better written than the originals. It's our only source of "truth" about the series. If you think canon has been badly handled, it has to be badly handled in relation to something. Else we get things like the Snapefen, who replace Harry Potter's entire canon with the Snape they constructed inside their heads, which doesn't resemble the Snape we read in the books at all.

I dislike the specifics of your post as well. I happen to find the ending to Harry Potter pretty fine, if not stellar, so your Lupin/Tonks grievances can suck my cock. Bayformers is self-contained, so it's only "canon" relative to itself (and Transformers has so many continuities that you'd have to specify WHICH one the movie would be relative to). Most people prefer to forget the Fatal Fury movie even exists, including the games' creators, and since they aren't referenced anywhere in any way, they can safely be ignored. Super Mario gleefully ignores continuity all the time in the name of Rule of Funny, and if there's some credence to Peach/Bowser, so what? Bring in the crack, I say! You seem to be under the mistaken notion that every single product done under a series' name is supposed to be part of the same story under "canon". That's just absurd.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:53 pm

Spider-Man

Carlie Cooper

The entire thing reads like a bad fanfic. Carlie's smart and pretty and she has this totally horrible past and this tattoo and look Mary Jane thinks she's better then her and trying to get her and Peter together and she totally is smarter then Mary Jane and Mary Jane only loved Peter because she knew he was Spider-Man and OMG LOOK AT HOW AWESOME CARLIE IS GUYS!!!111
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:21 pm

o.O You're kidding, right? They didn't really do that to Spiderman, right? *googles* Oh dear glod. I really need to start reading comics that came out this century.

And: but I like Tonks. What's wrong with Tonks? And, don't kill me, but I kind of liked the epilogue if just for the fact I got to see the kids. I'm a sucker for adorable things.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:38 pm

Shubby the Lurkette wrote:
o.O You're kidding, right? They didn't really do that to Spiderman, right? *googles* Oh dear glod. I really need to start reading comics that came out this century. .

Actually, it's probably better if you don't.

As far as I'm concerned, the saga of the real Spider-Man ended with the last issue before "One More Day". Everything since is Joe Quesada's badfic adventures of an imposter. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:49 pm

The other day they had a marathon of Bones, and I was sick as a dog, and there was absolutely nothing else to watch, so I watched this show for the first time.

The first thing I thought after about 5 minutes were that the main character is such a painful and obvious Sue it was almost laughable. She's attractive, a genius, and is socially awkward to the point of being autistic, but this is never presented as being a sign of mental issues (because all really smart people are liek that, amiright?) and does not seem to impede her social life in any but the most superficial ways.
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PostSubject: Re: When canon starts to resemble badfic   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:09 pm

Mr.Doobie wrote:
The other day they had a marathon of Bones, and I was sick as a dog, and there was absolutely nothing else to watch, so I watched this show for the first time.

The first thing I thought after about 5 minutes were that the main character is such a painful and obvious Sue it was almost laughable. She's attractive, a genius, and is socially awkward to the point of being autistic, but this is never presented as being a sign of mental issues (because all really smart people are liek that, amiright?) and does not seem to impede her social life in any but the most superficial ways.
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For example, forensic anthropologist Dr. Temperance Brennan from Bones is loosely based on real-life crime author Kathy Reichs. But while Reichs published her first book at 47, her fictional version has already written multiple best-selling novels by her early thirties, while also having time to complete a PhD, learn seven languages, become a skilled diver and expert shooter, and study three different forms of martial arts.

And in the world of TV, she's nothing special.

Sometimes protagonists have to be excessively capable simply because there isn't enough money to cast enough characters to round everything out, and as time goes on, your more-capable characters start to completely dominate in terms of skillsets, on a ridiculous level. Others just start out that way to be more impressive.
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